Air Dream Deliveries?

[blueice89]

Wait did you prompt your own delay in delivery ?

 

[Mountain Man]

Wait did you prompt your own delay in delivery ?

Well I didn’t intend to. On Saturday morning we planned delivery (in Colorado) for today. I asked him to please make sure it had 1.17 and none of the problems we are seeing on here. I was half-joking but he took me wholly serious and called back later that day to say they wanted to push a week to make sure 1.17 was loaded. Which tells me 1.17 is almost ready for everyone.

 

[Maverick]

Well, talked to one of the service guys today. This is what he told me regarding the fit and finish parts. There were certain components that are ordered and set to be delivered within a certain time frame, so not a "we have enough components to make 520 cars" but rather a parts arrive then we assemble, that the parts when inspected had defects from the supplier. This delayed the schedule and also took extra time because the batches were inconsistent in the defects and re-inspection of already assembled cars took place to ensure quality. So it just pushed everything back because then that supplier had to redo their part which came from another part, and so on and so on. To sum it all up, supply chain issues!

This is the part I don't understand. Once you delayed release by six months, I would have thought you'd take possession of 520 of each part, carefully inspect everything and then assemble. This is your vanguard. It's what you're going to introduce to the world. Maybe software isn't done or engine tuning is not complete, but the actual parts would have been known well in advance. Why wouldn't you have 520 flawless copies of them. Just really surprising.

 

[hydbob]

This is the part I don't understand. Once you delayed release by six months, I would have thought you'd take possession of 520 of each part, carefully inspect everything and then assemble. This is your vanguard. It's what you're going to introduce to the world. Maybe software isn't done or engine tuning is not complete, but the actual parts would have been known well in advance. Why wouldn't you have 520 flawless copies of them. Just really surprising.

Well, hopefully someone else with more logistics and manufacturing can chime in, but from what posters have mentioned on this forum...JIT logistics seems to be the norm these days. Even planning around global pandemic supply chain issues, there are still unexpected things that pop up, (Ever Given Suez Canal come to mind?).

 

[Maverick]

Well, hopefully someone else with more logistics and manufacturing can chime in, but from what posters have mentioned on this forum...JIT logistics seems to be the norm these days. Even planning around global pandemic supply chain issues, there are still unexpected things that pop up, (Ever Given Suez Canal come to mind?).

Totally understand that, but it was 520 cars to be delivered between 10/30 and 12/31. If that's not the definition of JIT, I don't know what is. One day, maybe, we'll hear the whole story. In the long term grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal. I'm just so confused by why you wouldn't have those lined up and ready to produce flawlessly from day 1. I would have been a decent sum of money that most were actually completely done a month or so ago, and even that seems inaccurate.

On the flip side, they really should have no trouble producing them in tandem with the AGT as beyond the paint color and horsepower (which I think could be enabled on the AGT), there is not a lot of difference at least when it comes to manufacturing.

 

[Easyrider949]

This is the part I don't understand. Once you delayed release by six months, I would have thought you'd take possession of 520 of each part, carefully inspect everything and then assemble. This is your vanguard. It's what you're going to introduce to the world. Maybe software isn't done or engine tuning is not complete, but the actual parts would have been known well in advance. Why wouldn't you have 520 flawless copies of them. Just really surprising.

They probably thought they had all the parts for all 520, but later found quality problems on certain paths and the current supplier couldn’t mfg new replacements fast enough. I was told that they were using Airplanes to fly some of the replacement parts into AZ as they could not get them through normal distribution channels quick enough, but the flying in parts was not sustainable. (I imagine that was and effort to meet year end). I was also told that other parts that were shipped from other vendors but were being held up from the shipping ports due to supply chain delays in container ships being unloaded. I don‘t know of any manufacturer’s that are not facing real supply chain issues. As an example, I have recently ordered a personalized license plate from CA DMV and their current delivery time is 6-9 months due to labor shortages. Go figure, a lousy stamped license plate made in a prison somewhere. This is the crazy “New World” we are living in now. I would rather wait a few more weeks or months to get a car with all the hardware. If you order a Mercedes-Benz right now, they just delete an item you want and give you a credit on your MSRP invoice without even saying we are sorry.

 

[hydbob]

They probably thought they had all the parts for all 520, but later found quality problems on certain paths and the current supplier couldn’t mfg new replacements fast enough. I was told that they were using Airplanes to fly some of the replacement parts into AZ as they could not get them through normal distribution channels quick enough, but the flying in parts was not sustainable. (I imagine that was and effort to meet year end). I was also told that other parts that were shipped from other vendors but were being held up from the shipping ports due to supply chain delays in container ships being unloaded. I don‘t know of any manufacturer’s that are not facing real supply chain issues. As an example, I have recently ordered a personalized license plate from CA DMV and their current delivery time is 6-9 months due to labor shortages. Go figure, a lousy stamped license plate made in a prison somewhere. This is the crazy “New World” we are living in now. I would rather wait a few more weeks or months to get a car with all the hardware. If you order a Mercedes-Benz right now, they just delete an item you want and give you a credit on your MSRP invoice without even saying we are sorry.

Or they could just pull a Tesla and not ship cars with USB ports, brake pads or now FSD chips

 

[chacha72]

#354 was founded via Reddit, can any one here confirm this?

 

[idiot900]

This is the part I don't understand. Once you delayed release by six months, I would have thought you'd take possession of 520 of each part, carefully inspect everything and then assemble. This is your vanguard. It's what you're going to introduce to the world. Maybe software isn't done or engine tuning is not complete, but the actual parts would have been known well in advance. Why wouldn't you have 520 flawless copies of them. Just really surprising.

Let's say the car is made of five distinct parts A, B, C, D, E. They get 520 good copies of parts C-E, but only 519 each good A and B parts. They don't know when the suppliers for A and B will send them replacements.

Do they delay all 520 cars? No, they choose between making 519 good cars and delaying the last, which needs 2 parts, for a really long time (max of individual delays for A and B), or making 518 good cars and two incomplete cars, each of which only needs one part. Then finishing one of the last two when either an A or B part comes in.

You can vary the numbers in this thought experiment but I think the basic theory could explain what is going on here - delivery timings, factory parking lot car counts, etc.

 

[CraZ8]

I understand some of the DE owners/orderers are frustrated with the initial software problems. Some people have even canceled their order and elected to wait. I think that is a mistake as it would appear that Lucid got the hardware right and it’s just a mater of tweaking the software with a small overlay of getting some parts from suppliers. Why didn’t lucid get that nailed down initially? Well not all problems will show up with a limited number of test cars in limited number of locales. So yes the DE owners are beta testers in that sense. Also Lucid was under tremendous financial pressure to start getting production underway. To many start ups are hampered or sunk due to paralysis by analysis. I think the Air will be a very different ( and better) car in 3-6 months time. Not everyone has the patience to wait however or feel they should. That’s a pity but understandable.

 

[Maverick]

Let's say the car is made of five distinct parts A, B, C, D, E. They get 520 good copies of parts C-E, but only 519 each good A and B parts. They don't know when the suppliers for A and B will send them replacements.

Do they delay all 520 cars? No, they choose between making 519 good cars and delaying the last, which needs 2 parts, for a really long time (max of individual delays for A and B), or making 518 good cars and two incomplete cars, each of which only needs one part. Then finishing one of the last two when either an A or B part comes in.

You can vary the numbers in this thought experiment but I think the basic theory could explain what is going on here - delivery timings, factory parking lot car counts, etc.

I completely understand that, and I wasn't suggesting that they hold all of their cars. My only point is that if they already pushed delivery dates back in the spring by 6 months, why not have 520 perfect parts of everything when you start production? It's a very small number in the grand scheme of things. If we assume that they were receiving parts weekly for 520 cars, sure I get the fit and finish issues. But I think what happened is that they simply didn't check the parts until they start assembling and that's when things when wrong. Again, I understand why this would happen, but the assumption that everything was good, IMO, is why things were delayed whereas checking everything back in September when you started assembling might have avoided this.

I could be completely wrong, but as it has been way more than 1 or 2 cars, I do think Lucid could have done a better job in advance.

 

[Swiftse3]

My experience has been that automotive suppliers are certified and then responsible to ship good parts. Incoming inspection at the point of assembly is spot check only.
Until a non conforming part is discovered, and then the poop hits the proverbial fan, with supplier personnel dispatched to the assembly plant to inspect and sort.

How many different parts are there in a Lucid Air? Multiplied by 520? I doubt they were 100% inspected before assembly started.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Totally understand that, but it was 520 cars to be delivered between 10/30 and 12/31. If that's not the definition of JIT, I don't know what is. One day, maybe, we'll hear the whole story. In the long term grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal. I'm just so confused by why you wouldn't have those lined up and ready to produce flawlessly from day 1. I would have been a decent sum of money that most were actually completely done a month or so ago, and even that seems inaccurate.

On the flip side, they really should have no trouble producing them in tandem with the AGT as beyond the paint color and horsepower (which I think could be enabled on the AGT), there is not a lot of difference at least when it comes to manufacturing.

I completely understand that, and I wasn't suggesting that they hold all of their cars. My only point is that if they already pushed delivery dates back in the spring by 6 months, why not have 520 perfect parts of everything when you start production? It's a very small number in the grand scheme of things. If we assume that they were receiving parts weekly for 520 cars, sure I get the fit and finish issues. But I think what happened is that they simply didn't check the parts until they start assembling and that's when things when wrong. Again, I understand why this would happen, but the assumption that everything was good, IMO, is why things were delayed whereas checking everything back in September when you started assembling might have avoided this.

I could be completely wrong, but as it has been way more than 1 or 2 cars, I do think Lucid could have done a better job in advance.

Keep in mind what happened with the Hubble Space telescope. You may not find something is wrong until its assembled.

 

[Adnillien]

It is not possible to unpack, inspect, repack, and temporarily store parts for even 500 cars. There is not space for that. Even if Lucid had all of the parts on hand for the DEs they likely would not find a low level defect issue. Parts can be sampled during incoming inspection but the expectation is near perfect quality from the supplier. The expectation for automotive electronics is sub 1 PPM defect levels and parts not in the single digit PPM level will be rejected. Every zero hour failing part is returned for analysis. Zero hour fails are frequently caused by damage during assembly. I don't know about quality expectations for fit and finish parts, but some of the issues could be related to assembly. However, I would expect that to be caught quickly and only involve tens of cars rather than hundreds of cars. There are likely multiple factors causing the delay and it is easy at the current time to blame the supply chain.

 

[CLTGT]

OK, I have to laugh that CA is taking 6-9 months to produce personalized plates due to a "labor shortage". What did they think would happen when they let all those tenants out of jail early and stop putting new offenders in?

All of the talk about what "might" have happened with respect to the delays/parts issues is pure mental masturbation. We really do not know what happened or is happening as there is very little substantice communication coming from Lucid. They are allowing all of us and everyone else to control the narrative.

I think a raging leprosy issue has placed many of the workers in quarantine on Molokai and they are trying to produce the interior fit and finish parts out of coconut husks using fish bones as needles.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

OK, I have to laugh that CA is taking 6-9 months to produce personalized plates due to a "labor shortage". What did they think would happen when they let all those tenants out of jail early and stop putting new offenders in?

All of the talk about what "might" have happened with respect to the delays/parts issues is pure mental masturbation. We really do not know what happened or is happening as there is very little substantice communication coming from Lucid. They are allowing all of us and everyone else to control the narrative.

I think a raging leprosy issue has placed many of the workers in quarantine on Molokai and they are trying to produce the interior fit and finish parts out of coconut husks using fish bones as needles.

Wow...

 

[idiot900]

The expectation for automotive electronics is sub 1 PPM defect levels and parts not in the single digit PPM level will be rejected.

1 PPM = 1 part per million? Or part per thousand?

 

[Sandvinsd]

Saw a local news piece on the TV and they were interviewing a local Ford dealer. Asked about why there were so few new cars and the chip shortage came up. He mentioned that on a basic ICE ( Dont remember the model he mentioned) there are 1700 chips required. So you can see the complexity. Imagine how many more chips are in an EV. For just 500 cars we are likely talking about millions of chips. If a supplier has a bad box of chips, how do you identify those bad chips that before you put the car together and test? It is not like you are buying 500 driver side doors and can look at each one when it arrived.

 

[hmp10]

Or they could just pull a Tesla and not ship cars with USB ports, brake pads or now FSD chips

An article was published yesterday revealing that Tesla is now omitting a back-up steering component in Model 3's built in China for delivery to Asian and European customers. While the component is arguably not required by safety considerations, it is required for full autonomous driving (which Musk is now claiming will arrive in 2017 . . . er, 2018 . . . er, 2019 . . . uh, 2020 . . . oh, yeah, 2021 . . . wait, I mean 2022). This means that customers that pay for FSD in those cars -- now priced at $12,000 -- can never get it without a subsequent hardware installation.

Tesla decided not to disclose this omission to buyers, and it is not clear whether U.S. deliveries will or will not have the component.

 

[Adnillien]

1 PPM = 1 part per million? Or part per thousand?

PPM is parts per million.