Air Dream Deliveries?

[Bill B]

I am very close to thinking he's just a troll..holding on to a sliver of hope.

I agree

 

[HC_79]

Tesla will certainly lose market share as these new entrants arrive. However, the EV market is expanding so rapidly that its absolute production numbers will probably continue to climb.

At least where I live, I have been surprised by two things in the past few months, especially with the arrival of the seasonal "snow birds". Cars such as the Mustang Mach-E and VW ID.4 remain scarce as hens' teeth on the roads even though they are on dealers' lots. But the roads and intersections are crawling with Teslas (mostly 3's and Y's, and predominantly white ones). We have counted as many as seven sitting through a stoplight at one large intersection. Besides our own Plaid, we have seen Plaids in every color except blue on the roads or in parking lots. We almost never take a local trip of more than a few minutes without seeing a Tesla. The Service Center in the next town up is delivering more than 800 cars a quarter and climbing at last count.

Tesla has one HUGE advantage! An 8 to 10 year head start on a charging network that seamlessly works with the car. A number of friends who own Tesla's openly admit the cars have quirks but after hearing the horror stories about EA they refuse to move to another EV. EA has serious reliability issues so much so that Ford has a team of "Charge Angels" that drive around to chargers testing if they work and notifying EA when there is a problem (because for some reason EA can't tell when they're broken). Rivian has decided to go it alone and build its own charging network so if these public charging networks can't get it right people will stick to the companies that have control of the whole ecosystem. Hence Tesla's advantage.

 

[steveairgt]

Tesla has one HUGE advantage! An 8 to 10 year head start on a charging network that seamlessly works with the car. A number of friends who own Tesla's openly admit the cars have quirks but after hearing the horror stories about EA they refuse to move to another EV. EA has serious reliability issues so much so that Ford has a team of "Charge Angels" that drive around to chargers testing if they work and notifying EA when there is a problem (because for some reason EA can't tell when they're broken). Rivian has decided to go it alone and build its own charging network so if these public charging networks can't get it right people will stick to the companies that have control of the whole ecosystem. Hence Tesla's advantage.

As a current Tesla owner and soon to be an AGT owner I agree. The Tesla supercharger network in my experience has been flawless.

 

[hydbob]

As a current Tesla owner and soon to be an AGT owner I agree. The Tesla supercharger network in my experience has been flawless.

I think it's just luck. I think the biggest thing is you just don't hear how often Tesla stations are going down, but talking to the actual installers and servicers it's quite common.

 

[steveairgt]

I think it's just luck. I think the biggest thing is you just don't hear how often Tesla stations are going down, but talking to the actual installers and servicers it's quite common.

I’ve had 2 Teslas, Model S and Model X. Bought my first in 2015. I’ve driven up and down the east coast. The worst I’ve seen is one or two chargers out of service from the 8-12 chargers on a site.

 

[HC_79]

I think it's just luck. I think the biggest thing is you just don't hear how often Tesla stations are going down, but talking to the actual installers and servicers it's quite common.

It's more than just luck! My friend and I have done numerous road trips and the trips have been way less stressful in his Tesla than in my Audi. I think we've been to one or two Tesla stops where a charger wasn't working and just moved to another and were fine. EA on the other hand makes me feel like i'm part of a family (and a horrible one at that) for the amount of times i've had to call them to get chargers working.

 

[steveairgt]

It's more than just luck! My friend and I have done numerous road trips and the trips have been way less stressful in his Tesla than in my Audi. I think we've been to one or two Tesla stops where a charger wasn't working and just moved to another and were fine. EA on the other hand makes me feel like i'm part of a family (and a horrible one at that) for the amount of times i've had to call them to get chargers working.

Now you’re making me nervous about when I get my AGT and take a road trip. Perhaps I’m too spoiled by Tesla superchargers.

 

[HC_79]

Now you’re making me nervous about when I get my AGT and take a road trip. Perhaps I’m too spoiled by Tesla superchargers.

It really depends on how often you road trip and will use the network. Sometimes you get lucky and have a good run, other times you're calling EA at every stop. The reason I want the AGT is the large mileage means less reliance on EA and can potentially skip one or two chargers along the way on my road trips. I look at it this way, 80% of the time i'm charging my car at home and 20% of the time i'm road tripping and screaming at EA. Is it worth not getting the car for 20% pain? I don't think it is and to be fair, EA has NEVER left me stranded. Yes, i've been on the phone for 30 to 40 mins with them at times but they've always managed to get a charger working for me.

The two main issues I've had with EA are

1. The charger just won't authenticate \ start the session (move to another charger if available or call EA to reset the charger)
2. The charging speed sometimes won't go above 30Kw (restart the session you sometimes get lucky or move the car to another charger)

Point 2 is the most frustrating as you can go to grab a coffee, bathroom break etc. and come back to discover that hardly any charge has been added to your car. If i'm eating and away from the car I tend to constantly check the MyAudi App to make sure the speed being delivered is correct

 

[hmp10]

Rivian has decided to go it alone and build its own charging network so if these public charging networks can't get it right people will stick to the companies that have control of the whole ecosystem.

Rivian is not planning anything as comprehensive as Tesla on the charging front. Rivian is installing its own charging stations at national parks and similar sites that might be frequented by its "adventure-oriented" customers and aren't generally well served by other charging networks. For most highway travel, Rivian owners will rely on Electrify America and other CCS-standard charging stations.

 

[manitou202]

It really depends on how often you road trip and will use the network. Sometimes you get lucky and have a good run, other times you're calling EA at every stop. The reason I want the AGT is the large mileage means less reliance on EA and can potentially skip one or two chargers along the way on my road trips. I look at it this way, 80% of the time i'm charging my car at home and 20% of the time i'm road tripping and screaming at EA. Is it worth not getting the car for 20% pain? I don't think it is and to be fair, EA has NEVER left me stranded. Yes, i've been on the phone for 30 to 40 mins with them at times but they've always managed to get a charger working for me.

The two main issues I've had with EA are

1. The charger just won't authenticate \ start the session (move to another charger if available or call EA to reset the charger)
2. The charging speed sometimes won't go above 30Kw (restart the session you sometimes get lucky or move the car to another charger)

Point 2 is the most frustrating as you can go to grab a coffee, bathroom break etc. and come back to discover that hardly any charge has been added to your car. If i'm eating and away from the car I tend to constantly check the MyAudi App to make sure the speed being delivered is correct

Those are the issues I've run into as well. With the first issues I've always been able to change stalls and get a different one to work. I've never had to call EA. With the second issues I've only run into two sites which were temporarily output limited. It was definitely annoying but at least I was able to charge.

Overall I've had very good experience with EA. I've had issues with my Audi or Porsche App which allows me to charge at the EA sites for free. But worst case I've always been able to pay using my EA membership and using my EA card in my Apple Wallet.

 

[Sandvinsd]

You have to remember that the fast charging universe for CCS plugs is not just EA. There is also EVgo, ChargePoint DC, Blink, Greenlots, etc. when you total those, there are a lot more options than Tesla supercharger sites.I have used fast charging for my Leaf. The issues are more along the line of no open plugs which is why people like the Tesla. At the Tesla sites there are many more plugs than say an EVgo which might have 2.

 

[hydbob]

So far, I've used EA almost exclusively to test their network I have around 2800 miles and I've only run into the problem once where there was only 2/4 chargers working. Plug & charge has worked since day 1 except that one time Lucid knew there was an issue, but you just initiate the charge through the Lucid app and it worked

 

[HC_79]

So far, I've used EA almost exclusively to test their network I have around 2800 miles and I've only run into the problem once where there was only 2/4 chargers working. Plug & charge has worked since day 1 except that one time Lucid knew there was an issue, but you just initiate the charge through the Lucid app and it worked

One thing I have always wondered was if it was just the traditional automakers bastardizing the handshake and the charger just not knowing what to do. We all know how well traditional automakers do when it comes to software integrations. Based on your experience maybe it's the case and Lucid handles the handshaking better via Plug & Charge. I hope it is or you've been extremely lucky

 

[copper]

It really depends on how often you road trip and will use the network. Sometimes you get lucky and have a good run, other times you're calling EA at every stop. The reason I want the AGT is the large mileage means less reliance on EA and can potentially skip one or two chargers along the way on my road trips. I look at it this way, 80% of the time i'm charging my car at home and 20% of the time i'm road tripping and screaming at EA. Is it worth not getting the car for 20% pain? I don't think it is and to be fair, EA has NEVER left me stranded. Yes, i've been on the phone for 30 to 40 mins with them at times but they've always managed to get a charger working for me.

The two main issues I've had with EA are

1. The charger just won't authenticate \ start the session (move to another charger if available or call EA to reset the charger)
2. The charging speed sometimes won't go above 30Kw (restart the session you sometimes get lucky or move the car to another charger)

Point 2 is the most frustrating as you can go to grab a coffee, bathroom break etc. and come back to discover that hardly any charge has been added to your car. If i'm eating and away from the car I tend to constantly check the MyAudi App to make sure the speed being delivered is correct

I'm in the same boat. The Tesla superchargers are a huge competitive advantage over most EVs, but the extreme range of the Air (and the fantastic interior, driving dynamics, looks, etc.) is what helped me commit to the order. Each of my major trips will require one charge *at most* and even then only from 25%->70% to arrive with over 10% charge at my destination (according to ABRP and increasing my average highway speed to 10% over the limit with consumption baseline set to a little under Tom's range test).

@HC_79 where are you located generally? I'm in the SF Bay and road trip to SoCal/Oregon/Tahoe, and the EA network seems to be very good here from a coverage standpoint but I don't know about reliability and I'm curious about your experience. There's at least a bunch of chargers along the 5, but whether they work or not is another question entirely!

 

[copper]

You have to remember that the fast charging universe for CCS plugs is not just EA. There is also EVgo, ChargePoint DC, Blink, Greenlots, etc. when you total those, there are a lot more options than Tesla supercharger sites.I have used fast charging for my Leaf. The issues are more along the line of no open plugs which is why people like the Tesla. At the Tesla sites there are many more plugs than say an EVgo which might have 2.

Very true. The free charging is nice, but if EA is crapping out we can always hit up another one. Any recommendations?

 

[HC_79]

You have to remember that the fast charging universe for CCS plugs is not just EA. There is also EVgo, ChargePoint DC, Blink, Greenlots, etc. when you total those, there are a lot more options than Tesla supercharger sites.I have used fast charging for my Leaf. The issues are more along the line of no open plugs which is why people like the Tesla. At the Tesla sites there are many more plugs than say an EVgo which might have 2.

Unfortunately EA are the only ones with a majority of chargers 150Kw or higher which is why all the newer cars have such a reliance on them over the other networks. EVGo, ChargePoint etc. are predominantly 50Kw which would take a long time to charge your 118Kw battery on the Lucid

 

[HC_79]

@HC_79 where are you located generally? I'm in the SF Bay and road trip to SoCal/Oregon/Tahoe, and the EA network seems to be very good here from a coverage standpoint but I don't know about reliability and I'm curious about your experience. There's at least a bunch of chargers along the 5, but whether they work or not is another question entirely!

I'm in SoCal and do the I5 run to SF often. I've used the following EA locations

Countryside Market Shell, Bakersfield
Lost Hills
Harris Ranch
Panoche Shell
Gilroy Premium Outlets
SF Premium Outlets

The Premium Outlet locations have been pretty solid. The worst one of them all is the Panoche Shell one. Every time I pull up I pray to just get one working out of the 6 or 8 they have there. Needless to say though apart from the outlets chargers, i've had to call EA at least once at all other locations during my trips.

My last trip to SF a few weeks back I made it all the way to SF with no issues (2 stops) and almost made it back with no issues but had to call EA at Bakersfield because one charger wouldn't accept payment through the app or card and the other one I connected to was only delivering 30Kw. A Rivian was using the other and it had blocked the remaining charger. After spending 30 mins on the phone to EA the Rivian left and I moved to the charger it was using and got 150Kw charge.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Unfortunately EA are the only ones with a majority of chargers 150Kw or higher which is why all the newer cars have such a reliance on them over the other networks. EVGo, ChargePoint etc. are predominantly 50Kw which would take a long time to charge your 118Kw battery on the Lucid

True. I agree that the EA chargers are preferable from both a speed perspective and the fact that they are free. Was just pointing out that there are a lot of options if an EA site was having issues. Of course, as has been pointed out, the extra range likely means that you will need only one charge for a day of driving and probably you only need a partial charge. Then you can Level 2 charge overnight at your destination and that is better for the battery.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Very true. The free charging is nice, but if EA is crapping out we can always hit up another one. Any recommendations?

I have used the EVgo chargers with my Leaf. My experience has been similar to the comments about the EA ones. The EVgo chargers are more common in California, I think, than in other parts of the country. My biggest issue was finding one that was not full rather than having issues with the charge. There are usually no more than 2 stations at an EVgo site so just less availability.

 

[hydbob]

I've relied on EA just for the speed. The other chargers available are not 150 kW, but if I need to charge, in my area there are at least 2x or 3x the amount of available chargers than the superchargers. The free charge is like nice but really, rolling around in a 170k car and I'm worried about a $15 charge? Lol