12V Failure

I was searching trying to find other forums where people are reporting 12V battery issues with the Lucid Air and I accidentally came across the same/similar issue someone reported with their Model Y Performance. I’m new to EVs so do any of you know if this can be a common problem with EVs?

 
I added it up and I’ve DCFC 19 times on EA, 4 times on EVGo and 6 times on Chargepoint, have 6700 miles on the car and no 12v problems so far. Maybe I’ve just been lucky? But unless there’s different components involved in the 12v failure cars and mine, I’m thinking there’s got to be something beyond DCFC itself that’s the issue. I mean practically ALL Lucid owners have DCFC, right? How many actual 12v failures (and not some other failure that also involved 12v) have we had here, 6?
Is it my imagination or have many of the 12v failures been in cars that were more recently produced? Also, it seems the failures appear quite quickly after people receive their vehicles, at least that is my impression?
 
Is it my imagination or have many of the 12v failures been in cars that were more recently produced? Also, it seems the failures appear quite quickly after people receive their vehicles, at least that is my impression?
I got my car mid April. Issue happened 4 months in, 4200 miles
 
It's quite possible they haven't figured out yet the root cause and that's why there's been no recall. I suspect it's either a bad batch of batteries or a bad set of whatever component uses the HV to charge the 12v.
If you're right, the easiest cause to detect would be a defective batch of batteries...who is the supplier? Do they have warranty recourse against the supplier? How unusual is it for a batch of batteries to be be delivered in a defective state? Will Lucid explain this to us?
 
Is it my imagination or have many of the 12v failures been in cars that were more recently produced? Also, it seems the failures appear quite quickly after people receive their vehicles, at least that is my impression?
Hypotheitcal Q for people here who know much more: could faulty software programming be a contributor to 12v failure?
 
If you're right, the easiest cause to detect would be a defective batch of batteries...who is the supplier? Do they have warranty recourse against the supplier? How unusual is it for a batch of batteries to be be delivered in a defective state? Will Lucid explain this to us?
I would state Lucid does not feel it's the 12V batteries themselves, @HC_79 posted his service report and they did not replace the 12V battery, and in my case I am requesting they do replace it but Lucid has not yet agreed to do so. I have not seen details of resolution for all the recent 12V failures so cannot comment on them, but I do not recall @Pete44 saying they replaced theirs.
 
Does anyone have a somewhat accurate count of the 12V failures seen and reported here, I must say I have lost count recently, at first it seemed there were four of us, but now I know I have read about two others minimum. I ask as I have a telecon Wednesday with some senior managers and I will be stating this is systemic and would like to use numbers. Imagine if you use the 5% rule mentioned here before, if there are just six reported here that extrapolates to 120 across the entire delivered population.
 
Hypotheitcal Q for people here who know much more: could faulty software programming be a contributor to 12v failure?
It’s possible. I know on teslas it tends to be a power conversion system failure (dc to dc converter) which also leads to ruining the battery. Whether that’s software or hardware I’m not sure but teslas notoriously eat through 12v batteries every year or two which is why I think they switched over to a lithium ion 16v battery for longevity
 
Does anyone have a somewhat accurate count of the 12V failures seen and reported here, I must say I have lost count recently, at first it seemed there were four of us, but now I know I have read about two others minimum. I ask as I have a telecon Wednesday with some senior managers and I will be stating this is systemic and would like to use numbers. Imagine if you use the 5% rule mentioned here before, if there are just six reported here that extrapolates to 120 across the entire delivered population.
Created a poll

 
A lot of threads on Tesla forum about getting a bluetooth monitoring device for the 12V battery. Also, one reason for the failure is the DC inverter.
 
It’s possible. I know on teslas it tends to be a power conversion system failure (dc to dc converter) which also leads to ruining the battery. Whether that’s software or hardware I’m not sure but teslas notoriously eat through 12v batteries every year or two which is why I think they switched over to a lithium ion 16v battery for longevity
It’s possible but unlikely. I’d put the odds at 95% it being a hardware issue.
 
According to my charging history in the Lucid app, I’ve DCFC 61 times (varying for 10 to 103 kWh) and have just about 9k miles on the car which is a GT. I was a mid-April delivery and have not (knock on wood) had this problem.
 
My 12V batteries died 05/02. You can jump the car to get in. The service tech was able to drive my GT to the service center in Scottsdale.
Just curious. How do you jump the car to get in sine you need to “get in“ to access the batteries?
 
Just curious. How do you jump the car to get in sine you need to “get in“ to access the batteries?
See this thread:

 
Happened in the garage so no safety concerns. Contacted Customer Care shortly after it happened on Saturday. Unfortunately Service in Houston closed at 4PM on Saturday so I won't speak to them until Tuesday morning. My question for others is whether or not Mobile Service can replace the 12V, or does this car get on a flatbed for 4 hour drive to Houston?

I'm also wondering about getting it a flatbed when the dead car is in park and the garage is a 90 degree turn from the driveway. Will let you know how all this works out.
A Lucid Mobile Tech telephoned at 8:30AM to say he would be leaving for my home right after we finish our conversation, and should arrive around 10:15AM. He told me Houston engineers had reviewed the logs and determined the vehicle is headed to Houston, and the flatbed would be arriving around 10:30-10:45AM. Both technician and flatbed arrived at about those times. Luicid gets an A+ for timeliness.

Upon arrival we talked about what Houston had determined. It is likely not a 12V failure, but a failure in the power converter from high voltage battery to the 12V OR in associated "fuses" in that conversion process, OR a wiring issue between those components. He jump started (passenger side rear wheel well) with a 12V that he brought with him but that quickly failed, basically confirming what Houston had said that it was not the 12V itself. Houston gets an A+ for their diagnosis from the logs.

We talked about the two 12V batteries, the other being under the rear seat in the center of the seat. The two run in parallel, again suggesting the failure point is not the batteries.

I asked about how the 12V gets charged, it would be via a charging session or regenerative braking when driving. Should the vehicle detect the 12V battery is low it would draw power from the high voltage battery. Hence, as mentioned above, that could be the failure point. I added it would be great if a future software update had a way for the user to monitor the health of the 12V other than the warning that is given about 10 minutes prior to shutdown.

About that time the flatbed arrived. Given the 90 degree turn from the garage it was determined the flatbed needed help. A tow truck was called. 30 minutes later the tow truck arrived, lifted the rear of the car, and successfully navigated the 90 degree turn to get the vehicle to the street where it was loaded onto the flatbed for the drive to Houston. However, I do wish the tow truck operator did not not damage the beautiful garage floor while sliding the component that lifted the car underneath the car. It also damaged one of the plastic aero wings at the rear of the Lucid. The Lucid Mobile Rep was on it and a work order to repair the garage floor was in effect even before the flatbed left. Tow Company gets a D- for their work due to the damage to the floor and the vehicle. Lucid Rep gets his A+ for having the work order in place even before I could talk to him about fixing the floor.

I'll also mention the Lucid rep had to inform the flatbed and tow truck drivers that the parking brake locks the driver side rear wheel, they did not know that. I suggested it would be great if Lucid provided all customers (perhaps via an app update) proper towing information that could be provided to a tow operator in the event a Lucid Rep was not present at the time of the tow.

That led me to ask how often this DFW based Mobile Rep had to have a vehicle towed to Houston, he indicated it is rare and this was his 3rd or 4th tow. I asked how many Lucid's are in the area he services, he responded for the wiring issue he fixed 55-60. Neglected to ask how big his area was, but he did mention traveling in Oklahoma.

While writing this Lucid in Houston emailed to provide a point of contact for me. I will call tomorrow for an update and suggest the 12V and app updates I mentioned above.

While I am disappointed with the failure, I am very impressed with the Lucid response thusfar.
 
Thanks for your detailed note. What wiring issue is this? Is this something new?
I think the wiring issue is the recall to check the cable under the steering wheel?
 
A Lucid Mobile Tech telephoned at 8:30AM to say he would be leaving for my home right after we finish our conversation, and should arrive around 10:15AM. He told me Houston engineers had reviewed the logs and determined the vehicle is headed to Houston, and the flatbed would be arriving around 10:30-10:45AM. Both technician and flatbed arrived at about those times. Luicid gets an A+ for timeliness.

Upon arrival we talked about what Houston had determined. It is likely not a 12V failure, but a failure in the power converter from high voltage battery to the 12V OR in associated "fuses" in that conversion process, OR a wiring issue between those components. He jump started (passenger side rear wheel well) with a 12V that he brought with him but that quickly failed, basically confirming what Houston had said that it was not the 12V itself. Houston gets an A+ for their diagnosis from the logs.

We talked about the two 12V batteries, the other being under the rear seat in the center of the seat. The two run in parallel, again suggesting the failure point is not the batteries.

I asked about how the 12V gets charged, it would be via a charging session or regenerative braking when driving. Should the vehicle detect the 12V battery is low it would draw power from the high voltage battery. Hence, as mentioned above, that could be the failure point. I added it would be great if a future software update had a way for the user to monitor the health of the 12V other than the warning that is given about 10 minutes prior to shutdown.

About that time the flatbed arrived. Given the 90 degree turn from the garage it was determined the flatbed needed help. A tow truck was called. 30 minutes later the tow truck arrived, lifted the rear of the car, and successfully navigated the 90 degree turn to get the vehicle to the street where it was loaded onto the flatbed for the drive to Houston. However, I do wish the tow truck operator did not not damage the beautiful garage floor while sliding the component that lifted the car underneath the car. It also damaged one of the plastic aero wings at the rear of the Lucid. The Lucid Mobile Rep was on it and a work order to repair the garage floor was in effect even before the flatbed left. Tow Company gets a D- for their work due to the damage to the floor and the vehicle. Lucid Rep gets his A+ for having the work order in place even before I could talk to him about fixing the floor.

I'll also mention the Lucid rep had to inform the flatbed and tow truck drivers that the parking brake locks the driver side rear wheel, they did not know that. I suggested it would be great if Lucid provided all customers (perhaps via an app update) proper towing information that could be provided to a tow operator in the event a Lucid Rep was not present at the time of the tow.

That led me to ask how often this DFW based Mobile Rep had to have a vehicle towed to Houston, he indicated it is rare and this was his 3rd or 4th tow. I asked how many Lucid's are in the area he services, he responded for the wiring issue he fixed 55-60. Neglected to ask how big his area was, but he did mention traveling in Oklahoma.

While writing this Lucid in Houston emailed to provide a point of contact for me. I will call tomorrow for an update and suggest the 12V and app updates I mentioned above.

While I am disappointed with the failure, I am very impressed with the Lucid response thusfar.
Yes, I truly believe the Lucid service staff respond to the maximum of their capabilities and knowledge. I texted Lucid about a piece of warped trim that needs replaced, and within an hour they were ordering the part and will do a mobile service when they get it. So they respond to the trivial repairs with the same seriousness as they do large failures, at least in my experience. They were also extremely courteous and thanked me for my patience. I didn’t tell him that my wife is just getting her Subaru back tomorrow after TWO MONTHS at the service center waiting for a new brake booster. That took some patience! This definitely sucks your car broke, but they’re not messing around, they’ll work hard to fix it thoroughly. I only hope the fix is permanent and that this isn’t some larger design defect!
 
Just curious. How do you jump the car to get in sine you need to “get in“ to access the batteries?
Take the panel off of the passenger rear wheel and retrieve the 2 wires/ positive and negative. Attach a jumper cable to the wires and the doors will unlock. From there you may be able to wake up the car and drive it.
 
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