Tesla Self-driving software

[JerseyStrong]

This is Jalopnik report of a demo on Hyper Change YouTube channel. https://apple.news/AdcanboyySf2Dm0WH0npe_w

Hardly stress-free driving.

 

[hydbob]

Add to that they fired 200 FSD employees...and they split out enhanced autopilot from FSD...maybe they are abandoning the idea...yea right

 

[DBV]

At least they have it and are trying and are constantly having updates to try and make it better.. Lucid has absolutely nothing, not even auto lane change, which every other car has at this point.

 

[joec]

At least they have it and are trying and are constantly having updates to try and make it better.. Lucid has absolutely nothing, not even auto lane change, which every other car has at this point.

To borrow a line from every Tesla fan I know, "That's coming by the end of the year."

 

[mnewber1]

 

[DBV]

You guys are funny and I have a Lucid on order too, so not being biased. But at least Tesla has auto lane change and tries to update FSD. Lucid has neither of those and no software updates in either of those departments. Lucid promised CarPlay, nothing, Lucid 9k for Dreamdrive Por and absolutely nothing for that and no game plan either.

So, think smartly before posting, as Tesla is way ahead in any of the software department with Lucid having far more promised on software that is not even close to being delivered.

Heck - Lucid can’t even tell us what the real range is for an Pure with AWD or many other things. One would think you would have that by now and have a website that gives specific details

Just by people always going after Tesla shows who the leader is and it is not even close. And by the way I do have a Lucid on order too.

 

[mnewber1]

To be fair, Tesla has production cars for 12 years vs Lucid’s less than a year. I want to say Lucid will be at Tesla’s level in 12 years.

 

[joec]

You guys are funny and I have a Lucid on order too, so not being biased. But at least Tesla has auto lane change and tries to update FSD. Lucid has neither of those and no software updates in either of those departments. Lucid promised CarPlay, nothing, Lucid 9k for Dreamdrive Por and absolutely nothing for that and no game plan either.

So, think smartly before posting, as Tesla is way ahead in any of the software department with Lucid having far more promised on software that is not even close to being delivered.

Heck - Lucid can’t even tell us what the real range is for an Pure with AWD or many other things. One would think you would have that by now and have a website that gives specific details

Just by people always going after Tesla shows who the leader is and it is not even close. And by the way I do have a Lucid on order too.

Good software takes time. If I thought Lucid weren’t working on any of these things, I’d be right there with you. But they are.

I’ve gotten maybe four FSD updates since they sent out the wider release of the “beta.” None of them have made any improvement to FSD for me. The system actively tried to hit a cyclist last time I used it.

I say that not to make fun of the FSD team. This stuff is really, really hard. I just like to remind people of the “reality” of Tesla’s software, which is that it’s not anywhere near as rosy as Musk and many Tesla fans like to paint it.

Personally, I’d rather have ACC that I could use on my Tesla right now, as opposed to FSD, which phantom brakes on me so often I have to leave it off. So my $60k Model 3 is less useful than any Honda from the late 90s, as far as road trips go.

There’s a big difference between checking a box that says “We have this feature” and the feature being done right. A dismaying number of Tesla’s features are in the former category.

If Lucid wants to take a little more time to get adaptive lane assist working properly, I say take your time, Lucid. I don’t need another car I can’t trust.

 

[Maverick]

It's unfortunate that Musk's showmanship has steered so far off course. I've never seriously considered a Tesla before because it didn't suit what I was looking for AND was pretty common on the roads. That second statement is key. The reason why there are Lucids and Rivians and everything else is because of Teslas success and Elon's, sometimes absurd, showmanship. Without the PT Barnum approach, I don't think Tesla makes it.

He does tend to follow through eventually and I'm in awe of what he's accomplishing with SpaceX. So I have no issue with Tesla, and I'm sure that FSD will improve, but it is hard. In the meantime, other companies are here now and that brings more innovation to the marketplace. The more, the merrier. This can only be a good thing for all things driving and EV. And yes, Tesla has a 12 year had start and everything Lucid will get better.

But overall, though it is a competition, Tesla will continue to improve as well Lucid. Eventually though, things will start looking more like the ICE industry where you go with the company that suits your tastes and has the features and functions you like most AND if another company comes out with a better innovation, most people will have no issue switching.

 

[JerseyStrong]

When I posted this review by Jalopnik, my comment wasn’t about Tesla’s FAD alone. But if I had put down the bucks Tesla required upfront for FSD and still did not have it after all the promises and missed deadlines, I would be a most unhappy camper.

I for one do not want to not drive my car. When I don’t want to drive - well, that’s what Uber, Lyft, etc are for.

I do want the sensible safety features that make one safer and long distance driving easier like adaptive cruise, blind spot, collision warning, etc. Even in my Seventies, I still love to feel the quickening pulse of the engine/motor as I accelerate. I love the thrill of coming out of a series of tight mountain curves, having sensed the grip in the steering wheel and working the driving dynamics in the curve. Even cruising is a pleasurable experience as car, suspension, tires engine and transmission interact under my hand.

So give me the safety equipment, yes. But surrender the driver’s command? No thanks.

 

[HC_79]

Tesla definitely deserves credit for what it's done. Do we think any other automaker would've started toying with EV's if Tesla hadn't got one out? Do we think Lucid, Rivian, Fisker, Nio, etc. would exist if Tesla wasn't around? The answer is no. Tesla spearheaded the EV revolution and forced others to follow and to this day you can see they're still the leaders when it comes to efficiency and price. We wouldn't even have OTA if it wasn't for Tesla.

FSD is in a similar boat. Elon's "coming next year" aside, I do think he forced competitors to step up their game. How long has Audi been touting autonomous driving \ parking and showing all these marketing videos but stuff all ever came to cars. Audi has all but given up on autonomous driving even though the A8 was the first production car in the world to come with LiDAR and offering Level 3 autonomous driving. Tesla may have not delivered when it said it was going to but it actually delivered something. The issue I see with FSD is everyone thinks it's the best system out there and for me, I just don't see it that way. Yes, it's good but it definitely comes with it quirks. I've experienced more phantom braking in a Tesla that I've driven for probably a total of 30 days than I did in my Audi e-Tron that I had for 3 years.

 

[SDHacker]

You guys are funny and I have a Lucid on order too, so not being biased. But at least Tesla has auto lane change and tries to update FSD. Lucid has neither of those and no software updates in either of those departments. Lucid promised CarPlay, nothing, Lucid 9k for Dreamdrive Por and absolutely nothing for that and no game plan either.

So, think smartly before posting, as Tesla is way ahead in any of the software department with Lucid having far more promised on software that is not even close to being delivered.

Heck - Lucid can’t even tell us what the real range is for an Pure with AWD or many other things. One would think you would have that by now and have a website that gives specific details

Just by people always going after Tesla shows who the leader is and it is not even close. And by the way I do have a Lucid on order too.

Did you have any Teslas before your 2021? You are right that currently, Tesla has a huge (10 - 12 year) advantage over Lucid in software development. But let's take an apples to apples view:
2012 Tesla introduces Model S
2015 Tesla introduces AutoPilot
2016 Tesla charges $5K for enhanced AutoPilot which is required for the $3K FSD package
2019 Tesla introduces automated lane change in AutoPilot
2020 Tesla introduces FSD

From the time Tesla started charging for FSD to introduction of the software, 4 years elapsed. And, of course, it was Beta, not production. So $8K for vaporware in 2016 that according to Tesla is still only L2 automation today. Even from your narrative, there's a close parallel path.

But just because you don't know the game plan doesn't mean there isn't one. Lucid has publicly stated their goal of L3 automation and they hope to deliver it in 3 years. Lucid has also shown Highway Assist capability - it was available on the cars used during the factory commissioning and I think they loaded for the InsideEVs range test. They've got a game plan - they just aren't promising "next year" (2016, Musk stated that you would be able to summon your car from across the country next year).

 

[thecodingart]

Tesla definitely deserves credit for what it's done. Do we think any other automaker would've started toying with EV's if Tesla hadn't got one out? Do we think Lucid, Rivian, Fisker, Nio, etc. would exist if Tesla wasn't around? The answer is no. Tesla spearheaded the EV revolution and forced others to follow and to this day you can see they're still the leaders when it comes to efficiency and price. We wouldn't even have OTA if it wasn't for Tesla.

FSD is in a similar boat. Elon's "coming next year" aside, I do think he forced competitors to step up their game. How long has Audi been touting autonomous driving \ parking and showing all these marketing videos but stuff all ever came to cars. Audi has all but given up on autonomous driving even though the A8 was the first production car in the world to come with LiDAR and offering Level 3 autonomous driving. Tesla may have not delivered when it said it was going to but it actually delivered something. The issue I see with FSD is everyone thinks it's the best system out there and for me, I just don't see it that way. Yes, it's good but it definitely comes with it quirks. I've experienced more phantom braking in a Tesla that I've driven for probably a total of 30 days than I did in my Audi e-Tron that I had for 3 years.

This is a bit of a reach. As a side note, Fisker was racing Tesla to market.. they didn’t come afterwards. You should look up the Karma. The model s essentially killed off all publicity of this car.

 

[HC_79]

This is a bit of a reach. As a side note, Fisker was racing Tesla to market.. they didn’t come afterwards. You should look up the Karma. The model s essentially killed off all publicity of this car.

Ok, Fisker 2.0 then given how long it has taken them to come back to market. I don't think the Model S killed the Karma, it's poor build quality and recalls were its nail in the coffin

 

[scubastevo80]

When I posted this review by Jalopnik, my comment wasn’t about Tesla’s FAD alone. But if I had put down the bucks Tesla required upfront for FSD and still did not have it after all the promises and missed deadlines, I would be a most unhappy camper.

I for one do not want to not drive my car. When I don’t want to drive - well, that’s what Uber, Lyft, etc are for.

I do want the sensible safety features that make one safer and long distance driving easier like adaptive cruise, blind spot, collision warning, etc. Even in my Seventies, I still love to feel the quickening pulse of the engine/motor as I accelerate. I love the thrill of coming out of a series of tight mountain curves, having sensed the grip in the steering wheel and working the driving dynamics in the curve. Even cruising is a pleasurable experience as car, suspension, tires engine and transmission interact under my hand.

So give me the safety equipment, yes. But surrender the driver’s command? No thanks.

It's no different than what Lucid is asking for in Dreamdrive Pro. Has anyone seen a commitment/date from Rawlinson on when he thinks level 3+ automation will be achieved? The website simply says future ready hardware for semi-autonomous driving. The OP is cherry picking an article that highlights a bad choice by FSD beta. We've all witnessed less than ideal decisions on FSD, but how many other manufacturers offer something right now that's 98% there? I truly hope Lucid can get to a quality semi/fully-autonomous offering, but I firmly believe anyone paying for DD Pro now is likely to wait several years before something they're something equivalent to Tesla's current offering.

@JerseyStrong - there are other use cases to consider here for autonomous driving. For me personally, I pay $250/mo to park in a garage in Harrison. If my car could drop me off and then go park in a Target parking lot for 8 hours, that's a $3k/year savings, which pays for itself in 3 years (I paid $8k for FSD, not the current $12k). I also would use my car as a robotaxi if that were coming anytime soon to make some money back. I agree with you regarding wanting to drive the car myself, but I am also thinking about something more engaging for weekends (i.e. a manual transmission car, not an EV).

 

[joec]

We've all witnessed less than ideal decisions on FSD, but how many other manufacturers offer something right now that's 98% there?

98%? Come on. 50% would be extremely generous. It does okay on highways, when it's not phantom braking. I'll grant you that. On city streets here in Boulder, I have yet to get more than 2 turns into a trip without having to take over.

Try engaging FSD in a snow storm sometime. Which isn't exactly uncommon in many parts of the world.

We are several years from ANYONE delivering actual level 5 autonomy. Level 3 is still a pipe dream at the moment, too. I'm actually very happy Lucid is playing down the autonomous systems in most of their marketing. It's a checkbox no current auto manufacturer can afford to not have. But as far as I'm concerned, it should remain a low priority until they can get the rest of their software game in order.

Yes, there are uses for autonomous driving. There are also uses for Star Trek transporter technology. None of that matters until someone can actually pull it off.

When "less than ideal decisions" lead to my car aiming for cyclists, 98% is WORSE than nothing, by the way.

 

[Impatient7536]

I firmly believe anyone paying for DD Pro now is likely to wait several years before something they're something equivalent to Tesla's current offering.

it's kinda different though. they aren't just selling DDP as an L3 software upgrade and promise that's coming in the future. DDP is cheaper than FSD, comes with actual physical hardware upgrades to the car (lidar, additional cameras and i think sensors), and has with additional safety software features (360 view and blind spot display). Now, we can argue moving those 2 features to the DDP instead of having it come standard with normal DD is the wrong move, but that's a whole other conversation.

We've all witnessed less than ideal decisions on FSD, but how many other manufacturers offer something right now that's 98% there?

does it matter if other manufacturers aren't offering something that is "98%" FSD when FSD is so erratic, unreliable, and straight up dangerous? sure, most manufacturers aren't 98% there, but "there" is still garbage

maybe i'm in the minority here, but i believe that groundbreaking products/software that have real life altering implications have an obligation to go through rigorous testing and review before they are released to the public, instead of using their customers as beta users.

 

[JerseyStrong]

It's no different than what Lucid is asking for in Dreamdrive Pro. Has anyone seen a commitment/date from Rawlinson on when he thinks level 3+ automation will be achieved? The website simply says future ready hardware for semi-autonomous driving. The OP is cherry picking an article that highlights a bad choice by FSD beta. We've all witnessed less than ideal decisions on FSD, but how many other manufacturers offer something right now that's 98% there? I truly hope Lucid can get to a quality semi/fully-autonomous offering, but I firmly believe anyone paying for DD Pro now is likely to wait several years before something they're something equivalent to Tesla's current offering.

@JerseyStrong - there are other use cases to consider here for autonomous driving. For me personally, I pay $250/mo to park in a garage in Harrison. If my car could drop me off and then go park in a Target parking lot for 8 hours, that's a $3k/year savings, which pays for itself in 3 years (I paid $8k for FSD, not the current $12k). I also would use my car as a robotaxi if that were coming anytime soon to make some money back. I agree with you regarding wanting to drive the car myself, but I am also thinking about something more engaging for weekends (i.e. a manual transmission car, not an EV).

I’m not speaking for anyone but myself when I say I don’t want to give up command. If you have used for FSD, that’s great. By the way, the guy doing the Tesla drive is a Fan Boy. When a fan boy is yelling expletive after expletive about his driving experience - then the software isn’t there yet, and it doesn’t matter to what other auto company you compare it. Lucid has a long way to go. Everybody does, but that doesn’t justify not ready for the road Tesla Auto-Pilot. And it seems to me they were forced to stop that name.

 

[thecodingart]

Ok, Fisker 2.0 then given how long it has taken them to come back to market. I don't think the Model S killed the Karma, it's poor build quality and recalls were its nail in the coffin

As opposed to? Some people really have foggy memories on these things… or at least selective memory.

 

[SDHacker]

Has anyone seen a commitment/date from Rawlinson on when he thinks level 3+ automation will be achieved?

• The Air will launch with less tech than what Tesla currently offers, but within a year it will likely be on par with Cadillac’s Super Cruise hands-free system and within three years, will have Level 3 hands off and eyes-off capabilities, which no automaker currently offers.

That's from a Car&Driver article in 2020. They only cite "the company" as a source but it's in line with an interview with Rawlinson I saw last year when I was watching every video I could find about Lucid.

I know I, as well as others, have written that Lucid is chronologically 10 - 12 years behind Tesla with software but in terms of largely matching where Tesla is today, I think it's really 3 - 4 years of software development time. As Tesla continues to innovate, Lucid will be playing catchup for quite a while but it certainly won't take 10 years to match where Tesla is today. I don't think they'll match Super Cruise capability by EOY - maybe they'll have test vehicles running early versions of the code by then. From introduction to EOY, Lucid needs to focus it's efforts on delivering stability, base functionality in the infotainment system largely in keeping with what is widely available today in other vehicles, reliability of base systems (locking/unlocking, cameras, app control of vehicle functions like remote cooling). While all of us that have or are getting DDP would like to get what we paid for, I think all of us would rather have what we interface with on a daily basis remain up and running, be reliable in working every time we call that function, and have the infotainment system provide the functionality we want way before we get advanced driving autonomy.