Tire/Wheel Discussion

0-60 in 3.5s would be no problem with RWD.
Power out of corners would be a very big problem.
I would be curious the relationship between tire width and traction.
In the ranges we're talking about more width equals slightly more traction.
What are your thoughts on the Dream Edition having equal power front and rear? That seems like a much bigger compromise than any of this tire stuff.
It doesn't, that was my misconception. It uses the same motors front and rear but have headroom, so they overdrive the rear and underdrive the front to get an optimal torque split. The power limit is elsewhere (battery pack, etc) not the motors.
 
It doesn't, that was my misconception. It uses the same motors front and rear but have headroom, so they overdrive the rear and underdrive the front to get an optimal torque split. The power limit is elsewhere (battery pack, etc) not the motors.
It just seems like if you're adding power to an already powerful car it doesn't make sense to add a more powerful front motor. Faster acceleration will just take more weight off the front wheels.
 
I was told at the December event that these are the Hankooks.
I would not be driving like that with all season tires unless I had a spare. It would not take long to get a sidewall tear.
Though I suppose I wouldn't be driving like that in a $120k crossover either... haha
 
It just seems like if you're adding power to an already powerful car it doesn't make sense to add a more powerful front motor. Faster acceleration will just take more weight off the front wheels.
I did the math previously, but basically you want around a 1/3 front, 2/3 rear power split at this level of acceleration. That will load all tires equally in a straight line. To do that you need to be able to put a bit over 700 hp through the rear motor and more like 360 up front. Headroom would be nice to be able to shuffle power to the end with the most traction. So as long as the motor setup can achieve that type of power split (to be confirmed when we get numbers) I don’t think it matters much that the front motor’s the same as the back. Maybe the front motor is a little than one of more ideal size (ie ~400 hp instead of 700+), but it’s really the power routing that’s determining the torque split, not the motor ratings.
 
I did the math previously, but basically you want around a 1/3 front, 2/3 rear power split at this level of acceleration. That will load all tires equally in a straight line. To do that you need to be able to put a bit over 700 hp through the rear motor and more like 360 up front. Headroom would be nice to be able to shuffle power to the end with the most traction. So as long as the motor setup can achieve that type of power split (to be confirmed when we get numbers) I don’t think it matters much that the front motor’s the same as the back. Maybe the front motor is a little than one of more ideal size (ie ~400 hp instead of 700+), but it’s really the power routing that’s determining the torque split, not the motor ratings.
Odd that they would need to upgrade the front motor to get half the power of the rear motor. Of course I'm assuming that the info about the front and rear motors of the GT being identical except for the inverter is correct. There's also the unexplained efficiency loss in the Dream Edition. I was thinking they raised the gear ratio of the rear to get more torque to make the torque split more optimal at lower speeds.
 
Odd that they would need to upgrade the front motor to get half the power of the rear motor. Of course I'm assuming that the info about the front and rear motors of the GT being identical except for the inverter is correct. There's also the unexplained efficiency loss in the Dream Edition. I was thinking they raised the gear ratio of the rear to get more torque to make the torque split more optimal at lower speeds.
I thought they already shortened the rear ratio to match the pure for more low-end torque. Isn't it just that there is more power avai
I have a confession. I'm nowhere good enough a driver to do the things with a car -- much less an SUV -- that might tease out this tier of handling differences being discussed on this thread.

It's more psychological with me. I just enjoy a car (or any technology I own) more for knowing it is the best that can be had for the criteria I worry about. The many powerful cars I've owned have sometimes tempted me to do more with them than I should given the limits of my capabilities, and it's reassuring to know there's as much capability as possible on tap with the car to save me from myself.

Also, for some reason, reading about tires has always fascinated me. I can't come close to guessing the number of hours I've spent reading car magazine tire reviews, usually turning to any article on tires before checking out anything else in the issue. And in later years, the technical articles on the Tire Rack website and the numerous tire reviews on YouTube by them and others has stepped in as car magazines have moved to the sidelines.

And I have to say . . . this thread has been a hoot.
The Tyre Reviews video that just showed the new updates to the Michelin Primacy tires along with the pictures from the NYC event on the 21/22's I think have sealed that set for me. I think Lucid really did achieve 'No compromise' here, they simply went with the best tires at a given size and category for the Gravity.
 
The Tyre Reviews video that just showed the new updates to the Michelin Primacy tires along with the pictures from the NYC event on the 21/22's I think have sealed that set for me. I think Lucid really did achieve 'No compromise' here, they simply went with the best tires at a given size and category for the Gravity.

I have only seen Benson test the Michelin Primacy 5 recently. Are you sure he's tested the Primacy Tour A/S that is on the Air?
 
I'm still curious why the range drops by 21 miles when you go from the 5-seating to the 7-seating configuration on the Gravity Grand Touring, but range remains the same between the two seating options on the Dream Edition.

It just adds to my distrust of the Gravity range figures which already looked shaky with the configurator showing identical ranges for the mid-size and large-size wheels.
 
I'm still curious why the range drops by 21 miles when you go from the 5-seating to the 7-seating configuration on the Gravity Grand Touring, but range remains the same between the two seating options on the Dream Edition.

It just adds to my distrust of the Gravity range figures which already looked shaky with the configurator showing identical ranges for the mid-size and large-size wheels.
Note they say EPA rated range on the website, not estimated. And how many configurations of the Gravity do you think the EPA has tested so far?
 
And how many configurations of the Gravity do you think the EPA has tested so far?

Perhaps none. From the EPA website:

"EPA is responsible for defining the methods used to calculate the fuel economy estimates that are posted on the window stickers of new cars and light trucks. EPA confirms approximately 15% of all test results, but it is the manufacturers that are responsible for providing the fuel economy data used for labeling."

 
I have only seen Benson test the Michelin Primacy 5 recently. Are you sure he's tested the Primacy Tour A/S that is on the Air?
A you are right. It was just an update for Michelin Primacy 5 and the innovative Michelin e.Primacy All Season new tires that I am hoping will fit Gravity...
 
Either
My conspiracy theory is that OEM tires are just a way for tire companies to make extra money and for car manufacturers to lower costs. They sell the tires to automakers at a discount and then charge a premium to the consumer for tires that are only marginally different.
Already discussed, but I think this video gives significant insight.
 
Either

Already discussed, but I think this video gives significant insight.

This is the most enlightening video I've seen about how complicated custom tuning of tires to specific cars can get. I really had no idea:

 
@hmp10 I’ve written a lot in this thread, but I think points I’ve made may make more sense now:
Lucid specs/ tunes tires for their cars, and I’m a big fan of going with tires tuned for their cars vehicle when possible (as long as they are new)… there is real advantage to tuning the tires, doing things like optimizing the front tires for braking and the rears for acceleration, that you simply can’t get when you buy off the rack.
I’m mainly familiar with Porsche’s process for developing bespoke tires… Porsche specifies things like wear targets, hydroplane resistance, etc… there would be multiple rounds of co-development, with prototype tires tested on prototype cars, culminating in a “drive off”, where the winner and runner up were selected for production

This process would result in tires very different from the standard offerings.
most can get a glimpse of and appreciate what "right" feels like in car handling. This is part of the reason I've been encouraging you to at least try the biggest wheels
What you saw above with AMG is essentially what Porsche would do (with two manufactures), and given the type of engineering I’ve seen from Lucid likely very close to their process. That focus on the feel and response well below the limit is why I’ve said you’ll be able to feel the difference even if you’re not on the limit. The car will just feel “right” with bespoke rubber in ways you won’t be able to put your finger on. Particularly on the biggest wheels, I suspect, as these will be least compromised by other aims (ie rolling resistance). Once you’ve got that standard of comparison you can take those rims off and sell them if you want, but you’ll know what “right” feels like.
 
@hmp10 I’ve written a lot in this thread, but I think points I’ve made may make more sense now:



What you saw above with AMG is essentially what Porsche would do (with two manufactures), and given the type of engineering I’ve seen from Lucid likely very close to their process. That focus on the feel and response well below the limit is why I’ve said you’ll be able to feel the difference even if you’re not on the limit. The car will just feel “right” with bespoke rubber in ways you won’t be able to put your finger on. Particularly on the biggest wheels, I suspect, as these will be least compromised by other aims (ie rolling resistance). Once you’ve got that standard of comparison you can take those rims off and sell them if you want, but you’ll know what “right” feels like.

I got my order changed to the largest wheels this morning.

As I posted on another thread, I'm also considering buying two Gravities now, with the second being a Grand Touring with the smallest wheels for road tripping.

We're ready to go down from three vehicles to two in our household, and we both want EVs. The plan was to keep the Air Dream Performance along with the Gravity Dream. But with all the feedback coming in about how great the Gravity handles -- with Jason Cammisa saying it might make sports car obsolete -- the question becomes why not just get two Gravities with one optimized for local and in-state "fun in the sun" driving where range doesn't really matter, and one optimized for long road trips into cooler climes. And there will be times when we need the larger passenger capacity for either scenario.
 
I got my order changed to the largest wheels this morning.

As I posted on another thread, I'm also considering buying two Gravities now, with the second being a Grand Touring with the smallest wheels for road tripping.

We're ready to go down from three vehicles to two in our household, and we both want EVs. The plan was to keep the Air Dream Performance along with the Gravity Dream. But with all the feedback coming in about how great the Gravity handles -- with Jason Cammisa saying it might make sports car obsolete -- the question becomes why not just get two Gravities with one optimized for local and in-state "fun in the sun" driving where range doesn't really matter, and one optimized for long road trips into cooler climes. And there will be times when we need the larger passenger capacity for either scenario.
I still think my DE drives better than the Gravity I drove, fwiw. That said, I haven’t driven a DE gravity, and if I had an Air GT, I might honestly say the Gravity drives as well or better.
 
I literally can’t believe I just said that about an SUV
 
I literally can’t believe I just said that about an SUV

I know. And I can't believe I'm finally at the point where I may turn my back on the sedans and coupes I've always favored.

Sadly, though, age and aches do finally become factors.
 
I'm still curious why the range drops by 21 miles when you go from the 5-seating to the 7-seating configuration on the Gravity Grand Touring, but range remains the same between the two seating options on the Dream Edition.

It just adds to my distrust of the Gravity range figures which already looked shaky with the configurator showing identical ranges for the mid-size and large-size wheels.
Does the 5 seat have an extra battery, otherwise the rear is flat and I can't imagine the foot well from the 7 seater is just wasted space in the 5 seater
 
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