Tesla / Lucid Talk

[cybertruck]

I’m sure if the Model 3 was surveyed within the first few months of being released the scores would be drastically different to where they are today. That car was plagued with quality issues which is probably a result of building them in a tent

I think the media has misinformed you, as they were pushing the dialogue that Tesla was going bankrupt, yet look at them now $1 trillion company. The media bashes tesla because they don’t advertise, the early Model 3 had only two issues that I would say was minor issues. First was the braking, fixed within 2-3 days over the air update, the second was “fit and finish of exterior,” which was blown out of proportion, while the fit and finish wasn’t up to standards when compared to a BMW back then, it was pretty dang close. Which is why the Model outsold every luxury car in the USA combined (Mercedes BMW and Lexus). If the Model 3 was mired by issues like the media stated, they would have never made it, and would’ve ended up like the rest: Fisker, Delorean which was In fact mired with issues.

 

[HC_79]

- Lucid willingness to license the tech to other to speed up the EV evolution (and can build a lucrative business for themselves as well, similar to what Google did with Androids to speed up mobile)

To be fair, I believe Tesla offered this as well and they were shunned by everyone. They even said others could use the Supercharger network if they wanted to as long as they paid licensing fees etc. I think the only one who took Tesla up on the offer was Rivian and has licensed the Level 2 driving system.

I know Peter keeps mentioning this but unless it's a new company I don't see any traditional automaker licensing anything from Lucid. Apple keeps popping up in the headlines every now and then but I think it's all false hope.

 

[stealthpilot]

I've had a 2021 Tesla since May. While it functions quite well, the car is so minimalistic that it really destroys your soul. I feel poor ever time I drive that car. It has none of the luxuries I am used to in my other cars - Fine finishes and materials, hand stitched leather on the dashboard and doors, massage seats, sun blinds, a high end sound system, ambient lighting, etc. It is so minimalistic, that the feature set (when you exclude the tablet) is not much better than my first car - a 1992 Toyota Corolla which also had power seats, mirrors, windows, and a stereo system. Plus that had a working sunroof with a blind.

Anyone who dares compare a Tesla to a Lucid or a Mercedes or a Porsche is quite frankly so stupid that they should be ignored.

 

[HC_79]

I think the media has misinformed you, as they were pushing the dialogue that Tesla was going bankrupt, yet look at them now $1 trillion company. The media bashes tesla because they don’t advertise, the early Model 3 had only two issues that I would say was minor issues. First was the braking, fixed within 2-3 days over the air update, the second was “fit and finish of exterior,” which was blown out of proportion, while the fit and finish wasn’t up to standards when compared to a BMW back then, it was pretty dang close. Which is why the Model outsold every luxury car in the USA combined (Mercedes BMW and Lexus). If the Model 3 was mired by issues like the media stated, they would have never made it, and would’ve ended up like the rest: Fisker, Delorean which was In fact mired with issues.

You've lost all credibility. Elon himself said they were weeks away from bankruptcy when producing the Model 3

Elon Musk says Tesla was just a month away from bankruptcy while it ramped up production of the Model 3

Tesla's CEO Elon Musk says ramping up the Model 3 in 2017, 2018, and 2019 was "production and logistics hell."

www.businessinsider.com

You forgot this issue as well......

"Tesla has acknowledged that a design defect on the Model 3 can cause the rear bumper to fall off when driving in heavy rain. There have been owner reports of Model 3 rear bumpers falling off in the rain dating back to mid-2018 and, at the time, Tesla said it was investigating the issues.Oct 21, 2020"

 

[cybertruck]

There are 21 Tesla in our extended family (see pix when we gathered at our grandma house), and currently, 4 of us are in waiting for our Lucids to be delivered. Let me summarize our experience:

- Tesla is definitely fun to drive. Among all existing EVs in the market, it's the most efficient.
- Tesla seems to stress the EPA guideline a bit. None of us ever got close to the range Tesla advertise.
- The software, most of the time, is quite intuitive
- In the early days, Tesla had LOT (and LOT !!!) of problems. But we all accepted and tolerated it, for a few main reasons: it's a young company, it was willing to work hard to solve those problems, and most of us were so fed up w/ the ICE cars & dealers.
- We lost track of the number of times we had to replace the door handles of our Tesla S,or having to align & fix the phantom doors on our Xs. Tesla paint is absolute trash. And the plastic panels used in the interior make rental cars look luxurious.
- Even up until today, all the Tesla we own have few things in common: efficient, quite reliable, and totally crap in quality (if any ICE car makers build cars the way Tesla does, they would be out of business a long time ago)
- Tesla service used to be pretty awesome. Nowadays, with so much volume - there's a long wait time to get an appointment for service/repair.
- Tesla tends to overpromise and under-deliver lately. Few of us are still waiting for our roasters, w/o any delivery timeline in place (should have used those deposit $$ on EV stocks).
- Tesla auto-pilot is ok, but we have similar decent experience w/ our other cars for adaptive cruise control (without the phantom brake). As for FSD, it's a total lie - they promised a lot in the early day (look at their note to us in the attachment) and have since dial back a lot & yet keep claiming it's beta so they can just keep the lie going. We doubt they will ever deliver the FSD as originally promised.
- Too many gimmicks lately: karaoke, fart-mode, dance & light, and the stupid yoke (which lead to our aunt & uncle canceling their S and X after they tried out the yoke...)

With Lucid, we see a similar trail w/ Tesla in its early days. But what encouraged us and pushed us to order several Lucids are:

- They focus on quality since day one
- Extensive experience with battery & BMS development. As for the range, well, everyone by now know what it is....
- Lucid willingness to license the tech to other to speed up the EV evolution (and can build a lucrative business for themselves as well, similar to what Google did with Androids to speed up mobile)
- Many lessons/limitations learned from the early days of Tesla are now being addressed in Lucid (i.e 900v, V2G, Lidar/Radar, multi-camera, or even simple as in-car storage....)
- The original team that help to define Tesla are now running Lucid
- Strong financial backing. Back then, so many times we wonder if Tesla would have enough funding to keep it going. With Lucid's strong backing from the Saudi, not so sure we have to worry about it.
- The Supercharge network, while awesome in the early day, could be a liability. We live in the OC (CA), and most of the superchargers are so crowded, especially on the weekend & afterhour. Luckily we all charge at home (though most of us have a free charge from Tesla) so we don't have to suffer the wait at the superchargers. Going with the CSS, we think Lucid can just tap into the ever-growing infrastructure.
- Tesla is more or less a commodity car nowadays - pretty much 1 out of 5 cars we see around our are is a Tesla - being used for everything: uber, delivery, carpool network. Going to NY, lot of taxis are Tesla.

Im Sorry about your ownership experience with tesla, but how do you explain Tesla winning customer satisfaction survey by Consumer Reports 4 years in a row?

Tesla Is Number One In Consumer Reports' 2020 Owner Satisfaction Survey

This is now Tesla’s fourth consecutive year as CR’s owner satisfaction king.

insideevs.com

Statistic matters.

 

[hydbob]

Im Sorry about your ownership experience with tesla, but do you explain Tesla winning customer satisfaction survey by Consumer Reports 4 years in a row?

Tesla Is Number One In Consumer Reports' 2020 Owner Satisfaction Survey

This is now Tesla’s fourth consecutive year as CR’s owner satisfaction king.

insideevs.com

Statistic matters.

As do personal ownership experiences. Most everyone who has posted here has decided to go with Lucid because the Teslas or other cars they owned were lacking. I don't think there is really a point coming here to tell everyone here about Tesla being great when their own experiences have led them to a different conclusion.

 

[cybertruck]

I've had a 2021 Tesla since May. While it functions quite well, the car is so minimalistic that it really destroys your soul. I feel poor ever time I drive that car. It has none of the luxuries I am used to in my other cars - Fine finishes and materials, hand stitched leather on the dashboard and doors, massage seats, sun blinds, a high end sound system, ambient lighting, etc. It is so minimalistic, that the feature set (when you exclude the tablet) is not much better than my first car - a 1992 Toyota Corolla which also had power seats, mirrors, windows, and a stereo system. Plus that had a working sunroof with a blind.

Anyone who dares compare a Tesla to a Lucid or a Mercedes or a Porsche is quite frankly so stupid that they should be ignored.

If your preference is more stitching on leather to so you can feel rich, that’s you’re prerogative. Some prefer minimalism, it’s the buyer’s choice and comes down to taste, functionality, etc. While I’m more of a minimalist, I think the Porsche is breathtaking, and if they can fix their battery longevity and fire issues I might just buy one in a few years. And yes, I’m a fan of Porsche, but right now I’m not touching it with a stick. Here’s a photo of my visit to the Porsche showroom.

 

[cybertruck]

That's not the right way to approach it. Cybertruck has valid points but doesn't backup his claims with anything besides being an owner and Tesla enthusiast.

google is your friend:

Porsche Whistleblower: “60% of all delivered Taycan have battery issues that caused replacements, damages and fires”

“Six out of ten Porsche Taycan” ever delivered have a problem with battery management that affects and damages battery cells, requires replacement of cells and batteries, and is causing vehicle fires, according to a source working at Porsche’s headquarters in Zuffenhausen, Germany. Porsche is...

www.teslarati.com

GM to extend production halt to EV Chevrolet Bolt through February

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - General Motors Co said Monday it is extending a production halt at its Orion Assembly plant in Michigan, which makes the Chevro...

wkzo.com

Battery Longevity issues take 2-3 years to reveal themselves. It comes down to how the company packs their batteries, and regulate it through thermal management systems, especially when charging. This is not an easy fix, as I’ve stated in my previous post, I hope Lucid succeeds, but time will tell whether their batteries can stand up to prolonged usage.

 

[Alex]

I’m a model S and model 3 owner and am here to share my experience as well as my observations on the EV front.

I’m fine with your comments here. As others have mentioned most people here probably already have owned a Tesla. In my case, I current have three (Model X, Y & 3). I’ve also had one of the early 2012 Model S’s and also an early 2016 Model X.

In any case, my reason for owning a Lucid Air is that it’s different from Tesla: more modernistic luxurious, longer range, and different styling. I could have gotten a new Model S, but felt that there was not much product differentiation from my 2012 and I have already experienced all the new UI&FSD enhancements with the Teslas I have.

You'll find that there are two kinds of people who want to make use of this forum: people who are contemplating purchasing a Lucid and people who own one and want to interact with forum participants. Personally, I’m more interested In talking/complaint about the car as it is currently. I’m not really interested in other EV’s detailed information or comparison as far as a purchase decision, since I’ve already made it.

 

[Lucken]

I think the media has misinformed you, as they were pushing the dialogue that Tesla was going bankrupt, yet look at them now $1 trillion company. The media bashes tesla because they don’t advertise, the early Model 3 had only two issues that I would say was minor issues. First was the braking, fixed within 2-3 days over the air update, the second was “fit and finish of exterior,” which was blown out of proportion, while the fit and finish wasn’t up to standards when compared to a BMW back then, it was pretty dang close. Which is why the Model outsold every luxury car in the USA combined (Mercedes BMW and Lexus). If the Model 3 was mired by issues like the media stated, they would have never made it, and would’ve ended up like the rest: Fisker, Delorean which was In fact mired with issues.

I spent 3 years on the Tesla forum when I owned a Tesla, but we now come here to learn about Lucid. Many of us are very aware about the ins & outs of Tesla, because many of us are former owners who have moved on or are present owners. Please respect the fact that this is a Lucid forum, we don't need to turn this into a Tesla forum. There are certain threads where your posts might be more appropriate, but if they begin to permeate every thread, that's decidedly not cool.

 

[cybertruck]

As do personal ownership experiences. Most everyone who has posted here has decided to go with Lucid because the Teslas or other cars they owned were lacking. I don't think there is really a point coming here to tell everyone here about Tesla being great when their own experiences have led them to a different conclusion.

First, I think it’s wonderful that Lucid is getting fanfare, it’s great thing to see companies transition to EVs. Second, I would disagree that everyone is here to get a Lucid, some casual readers show up like me to compare personal experiences. Don’t be threatened by my presence. Aside from visiting Porsche, I’ve visited lucid as well. There are lots of positives as well as negatives that I saw from seeing the showroom car, but I’ll refrain from mentioning them other than what’s been stated.

Here’s the link to Fisker failing a consumer report test:

Fisker Karma earns a failing grade from Consumer Reports

The striking Fisker Karma extended-range electric car has turned heads for months in our test program, from its distinctive design to its sci-fi hum soundtrack. During that time we've experienced far more than our share of frustrations. And in the...

www.consumerreports.org

Soon after Fisker went bankrupt:

Energy Department 'bet' on Fisker Automotive ends in bankruptcy

Energy’s risky $1 billion bet on two politically-connected electric car builders By Ronnie Greene, Matthew Mosk and Brian Ross October 20, 2011 Two politically connected firms get $1 billion in federal loans to build electric cars Two DOE electric car loans, two different paths By Ronnie Greene...

publicintegrity.org

The purpose of my post is to let you know it’s not an easy game, the industry is mired with problems. And if Lucid doesn’t get on it, and continuously pumps out cars in this manner, how do you think customers will react? One thing that Lucid has going for them is that they’re backed by the Saudis, who may have deep pockets, but their economy is shaky since their citizens do not pay taxes, which solely burdens the royal families (see photos).

 

[Lucken]

Im Sorry about your ownership experience with tesla, but do you explain Tesla winning customer satisfaction survey by Consumer Reports 4 years in a row?

Tesla Is Number One In Consumer Reports' 2020 Owner Satisfaction Survey

This is now Tesla’s fourth consecutive year as CR’s owner satisfaction king.

insideevs.com

Statistic matters.

And CR has always stated that the reliability & the fit & finish of Teslas is quite poor (borne out by their statistics which you conveniently omit), yet owners still stick with the company. That's fine, they acknowledge that. However Lucid owners & prospective owners are not looking for the kind of quality (or lack thereof) that Tesla offers. There is a huge difference in how these 2 cars are assembled.

 

[stealthpilot]

If your preference is more stitching on leather to so you can feel rich, that’s you’re prerogative. Some prefer minimalism, it’s the buyer’s choice and comes down to taste, functionality, etc. While I’m more of a minimalist, I think the Porsche is breathtaking, and if they can fix their battery longevity and fire issues I might just buy one in a few years. And yes, I’m a fan of Porsche, but right now I’m not touching it with a stick. Here’s a photo of my visit to the Porsche showroom.

I dont think the battery life's that different despite what the EPA says. My Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD Averages 188 miles range in the real world. The Porsche tends to exceed its EPA estimate.

Your battery longevity issue is also idiotic. It has an 8 year 100k mile battery warranty. So unless you can't afford a new car for 8 years, you won't need to worry about it. I tend to replace cars in 2 years or less.

 

[cybertruck]

I’m fine with your comments here. As others have mentioned most people here probably already have owned a Tesla. In my case, I current have three (Model X, Y & 3). I’ve also had one of the early 2012 Model S’s and also an early 2016 Model X.

In any case, my reason for owning a Lucid Air is that it’s different from Tesla: more modernistic luxurious, longer range, and different styling. I could have gotten a new Model S, but felt that there was not much product differentiation from my 2012 and I have already experienced all the new UI&FSD enhancements with the Teslas I have.

You'll find that there are two kinds of people who want to make use of this forum: people who are contemplating purchasing a Lucid and people who own one and want to interact with forum participants. Personally, I’m more interested In talking/complaint about the car as it is currently. I’m not really interested in other EV’s detailed information or comparison as far as a purchase decision, since I’ve already made it.

Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate civility as opposed to personal attacks. If Tesla redesigns their Model S, I’ll definitely consider it, and would not mind a Taycan down the road combined with a Cybertruck and Roadster 2. I’m interested in all great things as well as negative things about EVs and our transition to clean energy. Whether one buys a Bolt or a Volt is up to them, I would not criticize personal preference, but if a company doesn’t perform as advertise, I want to know to why.

 

[cybertruck]

I dont think the battery life's that different despite what the EPA says. My Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD Averages 188 miles range in the real world. The Porsche tends to exceed its EPA estimate.

Your battery longevity issue is also idiotic. It has an 8 year 100k mile battery warranty. So unless you can't afford a new car for 8 years, you won't need to worry about it. I tend to replace cars in 2 years or less.

Let me set the record straight and quote the article below:

Porsche Voluntarily Lowered Taycan's EPA Range

That’s right, Porsche’s electric sedan earned a better range number than it’s displaying. Why? Here’s the back story.

www.caranddriver.com

“Furious typing of shock-and-awe responses from every corner of the automotive internet immediately followed the release of the Porsche Taycan's lackluster EPA range. At just 201 miles for the Turbo, and 192 for the Turbo S, Porsche's electric sedan is more than 100 miles behind a comparable Tesla Model S in this important metric.”

My personal experience with Model Y is the same, it’s a fantastic car and holds its range. One of my childhood friend has the Y. See photo of thelong range attached its 330 miles, beating out any Porsche.

And I congratulate you for changing a car every 2 years, that’s just not my style, although I can buy a few dozen Model S and Porsches, I’m just not that type of guy.

 

[hydbob]

First, I think it’s wonderful that Lucid is getting fanfare, it’s great thing to see companies transition to EVs. Second, I would disagree that everyone is here to get a Lucid, some casual readers show up like me to compare personal experiences. Don’t be threatened by my presence. Aside from visiting Porsche, I’ve visited lucid as well. There are lots of positives as well as negatives that I saw from seeing the showroom car, but I’ll refrain from mentioning them other than what’s been stated.

Here’s the link to Fisker failing a consumer report test:

Fisker Karma earns a failing grade from Consumer Reports

The striking Fisker Karma extended-range electric car has turned heads for months in our test program, from its distinctive design to its sci-fi hum soundtrack. During that time we've experienced far more than our share of frustrations. And in the...

www.consumerreports.org

Soon after Fisker went bankrupt:

Energy Department 'bet' on Fisker Automotive ends in bankruptcy

Energy’s risky $1 billion bet on two politically-connected electric car builders By Ronnie Greene, Matthew Mosk and Brian Ross October 20, 2011 Two politically connected firms get $1 billion in federal loans to build electric cars Two DOE electric car loans, two different paths By Ronnie Greene...

publicintegrity.org

The purpose of my post is to let you know it’s not an easy game, the industry is mired with problems. And if Lucid doesn’t get on it, and continuous to pump out cars how do you think customers will react? One thing that Lucid has going for them is that they’re backed by the Saudis, who may have deep pockets, but their economy is shaky since their citizens do not pay taxes, which solely burdens the royal families (see photos).

Well, your attitude and posts are extremely condescending. The way you write them up, makes it sound as if no one here has done any research and we are all blindly being led down a path because we were duped into thinking Lucid is a home run.

The fact you keep trying to educate us about how it's hard to succeed in the industry is insulting. If you even bothered to read the forum here you would realize there are plenty of folks who are in the industry now or have been a part of it and have given their viewpoint on the company and the car.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Im Sorry about your ownership experience with tesla, but do you explain Tesla winning customer satisfaction survey by Consumer Reports 4 years in a row?

Tesla Is Number One In Consumer Reports' 2020 Owner Satisfaction Survey

This is now Tesla’s fourth consecutive year as CR’s owner satisfaction king.

insideevs.com

Statistic matters.

Hmmm…. That is interesting. This is what I hear. Statistics matter

Tesla makes some of the least reliable cars, Consumer Reports says. See which brands came out on top.

Consumer Reports ranked most reliable vehicles and brands you can buy. Tesla came in next to last thanks to subpar scores from its SUVs.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Easyrider949]

As for teslas FSD, it’s not at level 5, but no one is close to Tesla’s FSD tech right now, not by a mile.

Is that way FSD is now going to cost all new Tesla owners $12,000 starting January 17th? I’ll just wait for Lucid’s which is included in the GT Price.

 

[cybertruck]

You've lost all credibility. Elon himself said they were weeks away from bankruptcy when producing the Model 3

Elon Musk says Tesla was just a month away from bankruptcy while it ramped up production of the Model 3

Tesla's CEO Elon Musk says ramping up the Model 3 in 2017, 2018, and 2019 was "production and logistics hell."

www.businessinsider.com

You forgot this issue as well......

"Tesla has acknowledged that a design defect on the Model 3 can cause the rear bumper to fall off when driving in heavy rain. There have been owner reports of Model 3 rear bumpers falling off in the rain dating back to mid-2018 and, at the time, Tesla said it was investigating the issues.Oct 21, 2020"

As I’ve stated there’s no such thing as a perfect car, spouse or house. But for Tesla to be ranked #1 by consumer reports for 4 years in customer satisfaction should speak for itself. And yes, whenever there is a problem with Tesla it will be front page news due to them always being a hot story as well as their policy of “no paid advertisement,” hence the media attacks them and runs away with false narratives. They won’t report on this news as much though:

Tesla Model 3 Was The Top Selling Model In Europe In September

Plug-ins with 221,500 new registrations (up 44% year-over-year) are selling better and better, taking some 23% of the total market in September.

insideevs.com

Yes Musk did say they were “weeks away from bankruptcy” but you have to understand two metrics. One his style of management is to inspire his team, he also stated that SpaceX could go bankrupt next year if they don’t resolve certain issues, which to me is not possible due to his personal net worth being able to bail SpaceX out and buy them several more years. Second, Elon has a 100% score for raising capital, which means if he needed to, he would be able to raise funds, although it would not be in a position of strength during the early days, so he opted not to do it in order to NOT dilute shareholder value.

To my point, for Musk to come out and motivate his team in such a dire manner shows the task at hand isn’t a cake walk, it’s monumental. And if Lucid can do it, then they’ll earn my respect. All I’m saying is that time will tell. We’re all waiting to see if Lucid delivered 500 cars as promised last year? These metrics matter to me as it gives us an idea of the company’s health moving forward.

 

[Pete44]

Well this is all entertaining although distracting for the reason the vast majority of us participate in this forum, which is to find out more about the Lucid we own or will own in the not so distant future. Maybe we can move this thread to something like "Tesla lovers." I, like so many here, have owned several Teslas, and have no interest in debating one vs the other. We voted with our feet.