TCU not being covered under warranty

[Saksak]

[…] A GT with 6800 miles hard loaded with every option for 53000.00 OTD…. Was a good deal…. 1500 more is only disappointing because there is a major lack of communication they have had the car for 30 days at this point I am just now finding this out.

My Tesla battery after 10 years is at 88% and Tesla quoted me over $20k to replace. I would gladly pay to have it replaced with a 98% battery for $3150 ($1600+1550). I think you are coming out way ahead in the deal.

A fully loaded GT with only 6800 miles for $56,150 (53,000+1600+1550) with upgraded CCCv2 plus a refurbished battery thrown in is fantastic.

 

[TahoeMichael]

sorry if i'm reopening a wound here.. but what exactly happens to the TCU that a lack of update makes it fail? I mean if it was working with version x of the software, it should continue to work with x.. and if you replay the update sequence x+1,x+2, why would it NOT upgrade? whats the exact problem?

Nothing obvious would prevent them from just attempting to apply the updates and see if they happen. It's a very big deal for any software organization to support non-sequential application of updates, but I can't imagine what prevents them from apply each update in turn. The notion that applying a bunch of updates risks breaking the TCU is bizarre. But even if true, go ahead and try it. Worst case it breaks the TCU, and you still have to do the replacement. Best case is it works just find, and results in a cheaper and less wasteful solution. And a much happier customer.

My take is that Lucid is within its rights to enforce the warranty language, but that doesn't preclude them from charging a reasonable service fee for attempting to apply the missing updates. Their attitude seems pretty customer antagonistic to me. Being within your legal rights is not at all the same thing as offering good customer service.

 

[imperium2000]

I'm no lawyer but companies can't just void warranties by claiming neglect.
If someone does not change their oil at 12month as required by maintenance schedule and a camshaft goes out, the company has to prove the lack of oil change caused the damage and can't just blanket refuse it.

I'm not sure how a lack of updates will lead to TCU failures. This seems like a Lucid design problem.

You could talk to a consumer lawyer and ask for advise.

 

[Northpointe]

I'm no lawyer but companies can't just void warranties by claiming neglect.
If someone does not change their oil at 12month as required by maintenance schedule and a camshaft goes out, the company has to prove the lack of oil change caused the damage and can't just blanket refuse it.

I'm not sure how a lack of updates will lead to TCU failures. This seems like a Lucid design problem.

You could talk to a consumer lawyer and ask for advise.

Read your warranty folks:

What Can Cause The Warranty To Be Voided?​

At the exercise of Lucid’s sole and exclusive discretion, the Lucid New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided, and all warranty coverage hereunder will terminate in the event of:

• Failing to install required software updates within 30 days after notification that an update is available.

There's no obligation on the part of Lucid to establish that a missed update caused an item to fail. Theoretically they could deny any warranty claim (excluding items like batteries that have separate warranty terms) after a missed software update. That is why it's absolutely critical to complete your updates in 30 days.

 

[drb3333]

... zero help from Lucid corporate or Lucid local on the price of the TCU or the service or the CCC v2.... Nadda.... not even a coffee cup offered.

I'll gladly buy you a coffee cup for the knowledge the thread brought to the forum. And drama...

 

[scal_air]

Nothing obvious would prevent them from just attempting to apply the updates and see if they happen. It's a very big deal for any software organization to support non-sequential application of updates, but I can't imagine what prevents them from apply each update in turn. The notion that applying a bunch of updates risks breaking the TCU is bizarre. But even if true, go ahead and try it. Worst case it breaks the TCU, and you still have to do the replacement. Best case is it works just find, and results in a cheaper and less wasteful solution. And a much happier customer.

My take is that Lucid is within its rights to enforce the warranty language, but that doesn't preclude them from charging a reasonable service fee for attempting to apply the missing updates. Their attitude seems pretty customer antagonistic to me. Being within your legal rights is not at all the same thing as offering good customer service.

I vaguely remember from an old thread that if the updates are too far behind, they can not push the OTA update. It has to be physically removed and re-programmed. At that point, they would just rather charge you for a new pre programmed TCU module than messing with your old one...Otherwise, it doesn't make sense not to push OTA updates on the possibility it might damage the TCU.

And can I say that I still think that its a bargain that Lucid offers the CCCV2 upgrade for less than a grand installed? It seems like that is less than the normal mark up for something like that...

 

[MorganB]

Nothing obvious would prevent them from just attempting to apply the updates and see if they happen.

"2.1.43 - 11/29/2023 (15)

IMPORTANT UPDATE

Lucid Motors is migrating to a new software update management system with enhanced features.

• It is necessary to accept this software update to migrate the vehicle to this new software update management system. Failing to timely accept the update may prevent the vehicle from receiving future updates over-the-air, and will require you to bring your vehicle to a Lucid Service Center to restore OTA compatibility."


This is why they can't just push the updates. Plenty of warning was given to owners via email and letter explaining the situation.

 

[skomarla]

"2.1.43 - 11/29/2023 (15)

IMPORTANT UPDATE

Lucid Motors is migrating to a new software update management system with enhanced features.

• It is necessary to accept this software update to migrate the vehicle to this new software update management system. Failing to timely accept the update may prevent the vehicle from receiving future updates over-the-air, and will require you to bring your vehicle to a Lucid Service Center to restore OTA compatibility."


This is why they can't just push the updates. Plenty of warning was given to owners via email and letter explaining the situation.

but doesn't mean they can't push it at the service center. i'm pretty sure they have ways to load it without OTA. Perhaps they changed the backend api and that makes the older TCU no longer communicate back home..

Nothing obvious would prevent them from just attempting to apply the updates and see if they happen. It's a very big deal for any software organization to support non-sequential application of updates, but I can't imagine what prevents them from apply each update in turn. The notion that applying a bunch of updates risks breaking the TCU is bizarre. But even if true, go ahead and try it. Worst case it breaks the TCU, and you still have to do the replacement. Best case is it works just find, and results in a cheaper and less wasteful solution. And a much happier customer.

My take is that Lucid is within its rights to enforce the warranty language, but that doesn't preclude them from charging a reasonable service fee for attempting to apply the missing updates. Their attitude seems pretty customer antagonistic to me. Being within your legal rights is not at all the same thing as offering good customer service.

That seems plausible. The labor cost related to accessing the unit and fixing it may exceed the cost of the replacement. But if so, it would be better if they just said that.

 

[Adnillien]

It may be simple economics in that it is cheaper to replace the TCU and have the lastest software versus pushing sequential updates. Those sequential updates may even require modification if the update to the new OTA platform was not completed. Lucid charges a pretty good hourly rate for their service techs.

 

[GoFast]

but doesn't mean they can't push it at the service center. i'm pretty sure they have ways to load it without OTA. Perhaps they changed the backend api and that makes the older TCU no longer communicate back home..

Nothing obvious would prevent them from just attempting to apply the updates and see if they happen. It's a very big deal for any software organization to support non-sequential application of updates, but I can't imagine what prevents them from apply each update in turn. The notion that applying a bunch of updates risks breaking the TCU is bizarre. But even if true, go ahead and try it. Worst case it breaks the TCU, and you still have to do the replacement. Best case is it works just find, and results in a cheaper and less wasteful solution. And a much happier customer.


That seems plausible. The labor cost related to accessing the unit and fixing it may exceed the cost of the replacement. But if so, it would be better if they just said that.

If the old update server, which was run by a third-party, was turned off… There's no way to push an update that uses the new update mechanism. Lucid proactively, many times, tried to contact everyone who had not updated before the server was turned off… This is one of the few things I can not give them grief about.

 

[skomarla]

If the old update server, which was run by a third-party, was turned off… There's no way to push an update that uses the new update mechanism. Lucid proactively, many times, tried to contact everyone who had not updated before the server was turned off… This is one of the few things I can not give them grief about.

thats cool. i'm not in this situation and i actively update as soon its available to me. And if a current owner chooses to skip these updates, thats on them. but someone buying a used car may find themselves in this situation unbeknownst to them. i think some transparency on why would be of value.

 

[borski]

thats cool. i'm not in this situation and i actively update as soon its available to me. And if a current owner chooses to skip these updates, thats on them. but someone buying a used car may find themselves in this situation unbeknownst to them. i think some transparency on why would be of value.

Someone buying a used car may find themselves in a situation where the seats aren’t bolted in.

It’s a used car; that’s why it’s important to investigate, test drive, ensure software is up to date, and so on.

You buy a used car as-is, risks and all. That is why CPO cars are both more expensive and come with stronger warranties / guarantees; they have been certified by the manufacturer as being solid vehicles.

Buying it off a used car lot (which sometimes masquerades as other luxury brand dealers) is a crapshoot.

 

[drb3333]

It’s a used car; that’s why it’s important to investigate, test drive, ensure software is up to date, and so on.

You buy a used car as-is, risks and all. That is why CPO cars are both more expensive and come with stronger warranties / guarantees; they have been certified by the manufacturer as being solid vehicles.

Buying it off a used car lot (which sometimes masquerades as other luxury brand dealers) is a crapshoot.

This scenario applies to me, and worked out both ways.

My car was 5 updates out-of-date, had a major warning on the dash (Defrost heater), sold at a luxury dealer (Lexus), in a more remote and red region (Modesto), and had the price lowered $13K in their urgency to sell a car they knew little about. (Nor did I, if I were being honest.)

But it worked out, and I got a great deal on a car I absolutely love. Ignorance is bliss, even now, for my particular crapshoot.

 

[Pragmatic]

And how do you tell if the software on a used car is up to date if the car screen says "Your software is up to date"?

 

[borski]

And how do you tell if the software on a used car is up to date if the car screen says "Your software is up to date"?

You check the version of the software it’s running. You can see the release notes from the pilot panel. It takes a quick google to see if it’s up to date.

You can even tell the dealer they must update it to the most recent version before you buy it. If they won’t, you can choose not to buy it.

Someone buying a luxury used vehicle is not helpless. Just like people used to check that the tires had tread (and still should), this is one of the items to check.

 

[Northpointe]

You check the version of the software it’s running. You can see the release notes from the pilot panel. It takes a quick google to see if it’s up to date.

You can even tell the dealer they must update it to the most recent version before you buy it. If they won’t, you can choose not to buy it.

Someone buying a luxury used vehicle is not helpless. Just like people used to check that the tires had tread (and still should), this is one of the items to check.

Over the past 20 years I’ve purchased about 12 used vehicles. Some, not all, have been CPO’s. But before I make a purchase I always review the balance of the warranty to determine its transferability and any unique characteristics. The software warranty language, in my experience, makes the Lucid unique. I do expect it will become a bit more commonplace in the future with more cars being heavily software dependent.

One of the final checks I made before buying my used Air was confirming the software version it was currently running on. It’s the reality of buying a used Lucid. Heck it could be sitting on a dealer lot for 6 months without updates. I suspect that most existing owners are on top of this. But given that it’s just a screenshot off the pilot panel why chance it?

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

It’s a used car; that’s why it’s important to investigate, test drive, ensure software is up to date, and so on.

You buy a used car as-is, risks and all.

Buying it off a used car lot is a crapshoot.

This was true when my father taught me how to buy my first car in the 60s. More so now. IMHO, many are too lazy to put in the extra effort needed for a used car, especially an advanced tech one. Like buying a Carvana car, sight unseen, 1000 miles away? Used car buyers forget that the car manufacturer has no privity of contract with a used car buyer who got it from some numpty. When I buy a new Audi, I expect courtesies from the dealer and Audi. When I buy a used Audi from some bloke, I know it's caveat emptor and the risk is on me.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Over the past 20 years I’ve purchased about 12 used vehicles. Some, not all, have been CPO’s. But before I make a purchase I always review the balance of the warranty to determine its transferability and any unique characteristics.

Agreed. CPO is just another level of assurance, but due diligence is still required.

As a lawyer for a company of high tech products, I cannot tell you the frustration from dealing with second or third owners. That buy with no due diligence. When it turns out the product fails to perform, they expect the manufacturer to step up. Even after the warranty is up and with no privity of contract. You would think buying it at an estate sale would put the buyer on notice of the gamble they are taking.

 

[socktucker]

Agreed. CPO is just another level of assurance, but due diligence is still required.

As a lawyer for a company of high tech products, I cannot tell you the frustration from dealing with second or third owners. That buy with no due diligence. When it turns out the product fails to perform, they expect the manufacturer to step up. Even after the warranty is up and with no privity of contract. You would think buying it at an estate sale would put the buyer on notice of the gamble they are taking.

When I first reached out for an attorney to go after Lucid for my lemon, they told me I would be shocked how many 3-4th owners call them with 20 year old cars.

 

[doubletwist]

Read your warranty folks:

What Can Cause The Warranty To Be Voided?​

At the exercise of Lucid’s sole and exclusive discretion, the Lucid New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided, and all warranty coverage hereunder will terminate in the event of:

• Failing to install required software updates within 30 days after notification that an update is available.

There's no obligation on the part of Lucid to establish that a missed update caused an item to fail. Theoretically they could deny any warranty claim (excluding items like batteries that have separate warranty terms) after a missed software update. That is why it's absolutely critical to complete your updates in 30 days.

It may be legal to have that clause and enforce it, but that's an absolutely bull-sh*t, anti-customer policy to void a warranty for unrelated hardware just because the software wasn't updated within 30days.

I could understand saying that the software needs to be brought up to date to do warranty work, but the policy as is, is quite unfair.

At that point, why bother even making the updates skippable?