Standard Dream Drive doesn’t have lane centering?

[digiboxer]

They can’t because of the additional hardware, unfortunately.

His point I think, is they had the option to load the HW for no increase in price and recoup over time on subscriptions...a more flexible model IMO

 

[hydbob]

His point I think, is they had the option to load the HW for no increase in price and recoup over time on subscriptions...a more flexible model IMO

and then if a person doesn't subscribe? then they lose out on 8k worth of hardware in each car? Doesn't seem sustainable or a smart way to approach it, just IMO.

 

[digiboxer]

Just to clarify,

Lane departure assistance is NOT the same as highway assist.

Lane departure will nudge you back into you lane between clearly marked lines.

Highway assist actively steers your car in between the lines including curves.

DreamDrive has Lane departure assistance
DreamDrive Pro is required for highway assist.

Assuming this is correct---and I do--it clears up a point that seems important to many here (and which Lucid's marketing collateral doesn't make clear--at least to me)

 

[Ampere]

Please read this from the highly reputable Ars Technica website (which is where I first read about Lucid):

Drivers woefully overestimate hands-free driver tech, study shows

53% of Super Cruise and 42% of Autopilot users treat systems as autonomous.

arstechnica.com

 

[muhanadkais]

When I talked to my SA, I was told that DD is equivalent of Tesla AP. DDPro is equivalent of Tesla FSD. That being said, it will be quite disappointing if SA sells you on the wrong information. Like others have mentioned even the most basic cars now day have some sort of Active Lane correction. I really hope that DD has active lane centering. LiDAR is not needed for lane centering, I totally understand if people are paying extra 9K to “future proof“ their car but again it’s a future promise. Not something Lucid can deliver on today. And not to bash on Lucid, Tesla who has been collecting data and promising these things for years, even they haven’t been able to offer true Full self driving. They still have phantom braking issues… I own a Tesla but not a huge fan, hence making my move over to Lucid. I don’t see how Lucid can deliver on this promise even in the next couple years considering that Tesla is years ahead of most MFR and can’t deliver on this to date.

All being said, no matter what the MFR can program in a software update and is capable of doing. Level 3 autonomy is only offered on 1 car MFR at this point - Mercedes Benz S class. You have to get approval from the government and the MFR needs to demonstrate several millions miles of data to get that approval. BMW was also promising level 3 autonomy and have failed to demonstrate this and fell short on this promise. BMW ix was supposed to release level 3 autonomy in January of 2022. So if legacy automakers who have been in the works for years can’t demonstrate this and can‘t get government approval, I see no hope of Lucid reaching this point even in next 3 years. You have to realize there are two parts to this problem - software evolving and approval from the government which won’t happen unless you have millions of miles of data of full self driving. So honestly, DDPro is not even worth it because by the time it will be official, something better would be in the market. FSD is considered ‘level 5 autonomy’, but to my point earlier only Mercedes has received official approval on Level 3 autonomy to date.

Every automaker can advertise what they want, but due to legal reasons, we are still several years behind on this feature. Sure LiDAR is considered the future, but how fast tech obsoletes, it wouldn’t surprise me if LiDAR is a dead end and few years from now something else will be on the market. And unlike Tesla, Lucid has not advertised upgrade of the hardware in the future if you pay for DDpro package today. Tesla will actually upgrade your hardware in the future if you paid for it today. Just my 2 cents, but DDPro is not the future. Software will have to keep up with hardware and you may be paying for outdated hardware if things become “official“ 3 years from now. We already are at the 1-year mark with some of the early Dream Owners, so what’s another couple years?

I was told the same but unfortunately, it is not true. DD will not have lane centering nor the regular adaptive control.

 

[muhanadkais]

Personally I was hesitant when Elon went to vision only ADAS, however, if it makes the things affordable for the end user, I am all for it. You don’t need LiDAR to self drive the car. And not sure if anyone has experimented with LiDAR even on their phones, but to process that much data, you need one hell of a processing power to make decisions on the fly. LiDAR has a lot of data points to collect and process. We are talking about gigabytes worth of data to process On the fly. And I do not believe yo are getting a better computing unit as part of the 9K. Just more sensors, cameras and a LiDAR.

Agreed with you. Not to mention about the power consumption of that computer if exists.

 

[borski]

I was told the same but unfortunately, it is not true. DD will not have lane centering nor the regular adaptive control.

Given that Lucid's own press release on their website disagrees with you (and my prior assumption), I would suggest bringing this up to your SA again.

 

[digiboxer]

Please read this from the highly reputable Ars Technica website (which is where I first read about Lucid):

Drivers woefully overestimate hands-free driver tech, study shows

53% of Super Cruise and 42% of Autopilot users treat systems as autonomous.

arstechnica.com

Just me, but the ultimate oxymoron is paying 140k for the premier driver's car, and then 10k more for a system that drives it for me...but of course I've never run a car company...

 

[borski]

And not to bash on Lucid, Tesla who has been collecting data and promising these things for years, even they haven’t been able to offer true Full self driving. They still have phantom braking issues… I own a Tesla but not a huge fan, hence making my move over to Lucid. I don’t see how Lucid can deliver on this promise even in the next couple years considering that Tesla is years ahead of most MFR and can’t deliver on this to date.

They are leveraging nvidia's technology and data, and the big difference between Tesla and Lucid is the LiDAR unit. My Highway Assist (the equivalent of Tesla AP, minus the lane changing) has had zero phantom braking issues and is *way* more stable than Tesla AP on the highway. It has yet to freak me out.

And unlike Tesla, Lucid has not advertised upgrade of the hardware in the future if you pay for DDpro package today. Tesla will actually upgrade your hardware in the future if you paid for it today.

Uh, they literally *just* went to vision-only, which is effectively removing hardware from the cars, despite not having bumper cameras. They claim it was because of better engineering, but it wreaks of just a profit play.

Personally I was hesitant when Elon went to vision only ADAS, however, if it makes the things affordable for the end user, I am all for it. You don’t need LiDAR to self drive the car.

You don't, sure, but you may need it to do it well. Personally, I'd rather bet on using technology to help solve the problem rather than hoping that we can figure out with just stereo cameras.

 

[muhanadkais]

Given that Lucid's own press release on their website disagrees with you (and my prior assumption), I would suggest bringing this up to your SA again.

Will do tomorrow. You gave me some hope!

 

[digiboxer]

and then if a person doesn't subscribe? then they lose out on 8k worth of hardware in each car? Doesn't seem sustainable or a smart way to approach it, just IMO.

Pay me now, or pay be (more?) later...and maybe I can increase monthly subscription fee. Not saying which will be better over time, just which seems more flexible--for L and buyer [Disclaimer--never slept in a Holiday Inn Express or been CEO of a car company]

 

[digiboxer]

and then if a person doesn't subscribe? then they lose out on 8k worth of hardware in each car? Doesn't seem sustainable or a smart way to approach it, just IMO.

BTW do you really think--at scale--they have 8k of gross margin in the hardware?

 

[borski]

BTW do you really think--at scale--they have 8k of gross margin in the hardware?

The LiDAR units themselves are a few thousand bucks. Add in the cameras and other sensors, and it’s not 8k but it’s not cheap either.

 

[digiboxer]

The LiDAR units themselves are a few thousand bucks. Add in the cameras and other sensors, and it’s not 8k but it’s not cheap either.

If that's so then I prob wouldn't have spec'ed it either...wonder if there will be a HW retrofit...?

 

[borski]

If that's so then I prob wouldn't have spec'ed it either...wonder if there will be a HW retrofit...?

Why?

 

[digiboxer]

Why?

I meant if it really costs so much (wholesale) I agree it makes no sense to build it in on spec...that said, have they left the door open for those of us who opt out of DDP to get the HW later?

 

[borski]

I meant if it really costs so much (wholesale) I agree it makes no sense to build it in on spec...that said, have they left the door open for those of us who opt out of DDP to get the HW later?

Ah, I understand now, and I agree.

I do not think so, on the latter question, but I don’t know that for sure. I’m not certain *anyone* knows that yet, as they have yet to produce a car that doesn’t have DD Pro.

 

[digiboxer]

I meant if it really costs so much (wholesale) I agree it makes no sense to build it in on spec...that said, have they left the door open for those of us who opt out of DDP to get the HW later?

Small point---academic Q--no need parse---

 

[hydbob]

Ah, I understand now, and I agree.

I do not think so, on the latter question, but I don’t know that for sure. I’m not certain *anyone* knows that yet, as they have yet to produce a car that doesn’t have DD Pro.

Yea plus the ENTIRE front assembly is different for non ddpro cars. That's not just a simple install a lidar unit. That is replace the entire front.

 

[Lucidfan22]

They are leveraging nvidia's technology and data, and the big difference between Tesla and Lucid is the LiDAR unit. My Highway Assist (the equivalent of Tesla AP, minus the lane changing) has had zero phantom braking issues and is *way* more stable than Tesla AP on the highway. It has yet to freak me out.

You do not need LiDAR to overcome phantom braking. My Tundra has 0 phantom braking using a simple radar system. Radar has been used in cars for adaptive cruise control for 15+ years. Between radar and cameras self driving is achievable. Heck BMW has been doing highway assist for 3+ years now. Lidar doesn’t offer any additional advantage when it comes to phantom braking. That’s purely bad programming on Tesla part. The reason it’s a programming issue because I can mimic it every time on a certain road. It would be random if it was hardware related. This is just bad programming on their part. But again easily accomplished by putting a front radar. There are pros and cons to both, radar and Lidar