Sapphire Reveal

[hmp10]

No worries, it will be a heavy lift but maybe Lucid is changing target audience and going for higher end? Making Gravity more competitor to Cullinan?

Hard to tell at this point. Rawlinson has done quite a bit of talking about using high-end products as the development/funding bed for technology that can be moved toward mass market products inside the Lucid brand and for other brands who might want to acquire the technology.

I tend to agree with the panel on the InsideEVs podcast: the Sapphire is the fruit not of a new marketing strategy but of an old grudge match between Rawlinson and Musk, with Rawlinson determined to take and hold every mountaintop he can on EV technology. We need to remember that a tri-motor Air was already being publicly track tested over two years ago and thus would have been in the product plan considerably before that.

 

[Overcharged]

No worries, it will be a heavy lift but maybe Lucid is changing target audience and going for higher end? Making Gravity more competitor to Cullinan?

I can’t see that
i have been in La Jolla this week for work and stayed at the Hilton on Torrey Pines
They had a Cullinan parked there and that thing is huge and super pricey
To compete with Rolls they would first have to dump the dunce cap wearers in the interior design group who forced white carpets on DE customers and 2 tone interiors on the rest of us

 

[hydbob]

I can’t see that
i have been in La Jolla this week for work and stayed at the Hilton on Torrey Pines
They had a Cullinan parked there and that thing is huge and super pricey
To compete with Rolls they would first have to dump the dunce cap wearers in the interior design group who forced white carpets on DE customers and 2 tone interiors on the rest of us

But I love my two tone interior...

 

[Overcharged]

But I love my two tone interior...

But dont force the folks who don’t want it to accept it
Rolls knows better, let the customer have what they want

 

[hmp10]

To compete with Rolls they would first have to dump the dunce cap wearers in the interior design group who forced white carpets on DE customers and 2 tone interiors on the rest of us

I love the two-tone interior, and it is one of the things that almost always draws praise from new passengers. I think the concept of different vibes for driver and rear passengers is actually quite clever and adroitly executed in the Air. And, although I live in Florida where we don't deal with winter muck, the carpets in our 8-month-old Dream Edition still look pretty much like new, despite having had only one light shampoo during that time.

As for the almost infinite customization Rolls allows -- yes, the Lucid is fairly expensive, but it's a far cry from Rolls pricing. (Even the Dream Edition is closer in price to a fully tricked-out Ford pickup than it is to most of the cars in the Rolls lineup.) And who says they're trying to compete with Rolls, anyway? Lucid certainly doesn't.

 

[Overcharged]

If you look back a few posts there was speculation about Lucid going after Rolls with the Gravity
I don’t expect it to happen
I take every opportunity to voice my dislike of the Lucid interior design stooges
Probably could have sold 5000 DE if the carpet wasn’t white
is it so hard to give me brown seats front and rear and a black carpet and maybe the eucalyptus wood trim?

 

[hydbob]

If you look back a few posts there was speculation about Lucid going after Rolls with the Gravity
I don’t expect it to happen
I take every opportunity to voice my dislike of the Lucid interior design stooges
Probably could have sold 5000 DE if the carpet wasn’t white
is it so hard to give me brown seats front and rear and a black carpet and maybe the eucalyptus wood trim?

Ya had me until brown seats, the DE has silver eucalyptus though...

 

[Rob Stark]

Currently, the Casa Grande factory has a capacity of ~34k units.

With the current expansion the factory will have close to 100k unit capacity.

After complete expansion is done Casa Grande will have 400k unit capacity. The paint shop was originally designed for 400k unit capacity. Building the paint booth in stages up to 400k is prohibitively expensive.

Lucid's Saudi factory will have 150k unit capacity.

Rolls Royce sells ~5500 units globally per year. And most the RR tech is developed by BMW and expensed at BMW then transferred to RR.

There is ZERO chance Lucid becomes a direct RR competitor.

Multiple times Rawlinson has mentioned Mercedes as the direct competitor. MB has ~2.5M unit sales every year.

An A-Class starts at $34k and a Maybach tops out at about $300k.

Recently, MB CEO said they will no longer chase BMW and Audi to become the largest luxury automaker in the world.

If MB drops A Class and C Class becomes entry level MB again then cheapest MB would be $43.5k.

That is where I see Lucid's future. $45k-$300k. With Gravity Sapphire at $300k.

A future Model Y competitor with a base price of $45k. In Europe Model Y standard range with LFP batteries start at $42k.

 

[hmp10]

Probably could have sold 5000 DE if the carpet wasn’t white

Yeah, I can't tell you how many car purchases I've walked away from due to floor mat colors.

Oh, wait, yes I can . . . .

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I guess the word "competitor" is what throws me, just semantics.

Competing, means you can win.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I guess alternative is a better word?

 

[Overcharged]

It's time to play everyone's favorite game, business case.

Here we go.

This is our first product launch, lots invested, plenty at risk, many eyes on us, many Tesla fan bois hoping for failure, the US government about to steal most of our EV tax credits away from us.

Ok, let's get to the offering, an amazing techno performance tour do force luxury sedan with the right looks for the job.

On the outside, a few well selected colors, some badly chosen wheel sizes but that is secondary.

On to the amazing interior with sumptuous materials and textures and plenty of gee whiz tech to go around.

We only offer one interior color scheme that 80-90% of the market will not accept (again quoting Sandy Munro, I couldn't live with that).

Will we maximize our opportunity yes or no?

The chubby little old guy with a small stake in the company stock and an order in for a GT-P and hopes that that company reaches its' potential says no, that was not the best business case to take Petey.

Now look at the Sapphire, they go with the gray black combo that like 90% of the market will accept. Much better result expected.

 

[hmp10]

The chubby little old guy with a small stake in the company stock and an order in for a GT-P . . . .

Now look at the Sapphire, they go with the gray black combo that like 90% of the market will accept. Much better result expected.

The GT-P can be had with the Mojave interior (which is also a two-tone interior, by the way). Why are you so exercised about this?

For what it's worth, the availability only of the Mojave interior is one of the reasons I've been reluctant to move from the Dream to the Sapphire -- the other being the stiffer suspension, which I want to see more reactions to once the press gets its hands on the car.

. . . some badly chosen wheel sizes . . .

Why so "badly chosen"? The wheel choices cover 19", 20", and 21", the three most common wheel diameters for cars of this size and class. And the tire widths are pretty much the same as those available on other EVs for the same reasons: aerodynamics and range.

 

[Overcharged]

What can I say, I like what I like and for $180K I would like the front and rear seats in the same color.
I am well versed in the available theme/color schemes and know they are all 2 tone and the gray/black being the closest looking between the front and rear.
I believe preferences vary and like that, makes for very cool spec Ferraris out there.
When I spoke with someone at Lucid about my beefs I was told that pretty much everything offered was a we are trying it out and there will be more to come.
On the wheel thing, I have always lived in places with winter, which translates to potholes, which translates to wheel and tire damage.
I have 21s on my Lexus LC 500 convertible and they have enough sidewall height to deal will roads in Chicago.
If you look at the 21s and 20s on the Air, it doesn't appear that is the case, the folks with tire and wheel problems confirm it. Lucid themselves have some funny disclaimers about the 20s and 21s.
Next up is tires. I like to run one set of wheels with summers and one with winters, to me all seasons are a crappy compromise. Lucid only offers all seasons on the 19s when there are perfectly good summer and winter P Zero tires that come in the 19 inch OEM sizes. During the above-mentoned call I was told there would be more whee and tire options. Yes. the GT-P has a different 21 inch wheel, the stealth cars have different finishes and the Sapphire uses a different set up with new wheels.
I ordered my GT-P with the stock 21 inch wheels to avoid anything delaying delivery (gotta have my tax credit) and I may be better off selling that set and buying 2 sets of 19s.

 

[FastEddi3]

What can I say, I like what I like and for $180K I would like the front and rear seats in the same color.
I am well versed in the available theme/color schemes and know they are all 2 tone and the gray/black being the closest looking between the front and rear.
I believe preferences vary and like that, makes for very cool spec Ferraris out there.
When I spoke with someone at Lucid about my beefs I was told that pretty much everything offered was a we are trying it out and there will be more to come.
On the wheel thing, I have always lived in places with winter, which translates to potholes, which translates to wheel and tire damage.
I have 21s on my Lexus LC 500 convertible and they have enough sidewall height to deal will roads in Chicago.
If you look at the 21s and 20s on the Air, it doesn't appear that is the case, the folks with tire and wheel problems confirm it. Lucid themselves have some funny disclaimers about the 20s and 21s.
Next up is tires. I like to run one set of wheels with summers and one with winters, to me all seasons are a crappy compromise. Lucid only offers all seasons on the 19s when there are perfectly good summer and winter P Zero tires that come in the 19 inch OEM sizes. During the above-mentoned call I was told there would be more whee and tire options. Yes. the GT-P has a different 21 inch wheel, the stealth cars have different finishes and the Sapphire uses a different set up with new wheels.
I ordered my GT-P with the stock 21 inch wheels to avoid anything delaying delivery (gotta have my tax credit) and I may be better off selling that set and buying 2 sets of 19s.

I don't think the tire issues are due specifically to wheel size. I think it is much more likely due to Pirelli attempting to engineer a new tire specifically for the Lucid Air. As we know, Lucid was obsessed with efficiency to maximize range. That meant asking Pirelli to design a new tire that could handle the high weight of the Lucid Air (and other EVs) AND was very stiff to minimize hysteresis, the primary cause of rolling resistance. These tires, the Pirelli P ZERO HL, is specific to Lucid (for now). It seems very apparent that there were/are some flaws in the material that resulted in all of the sidewall bubbles and blowouts that have occurred.

Most manufacturers supply their cars with all season tires. That is a pretty universal strategy. When I lived in New England, I did the same thing that you do. I had one set of summer wheels/tires and another set for winter. But that is expensive, and most people don't bother. For those that don't, it is amazing what a difference in traction there is from a set of good all seasons to a set of X-Ice or Blizzak winter tires.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I was on Tire Rack and they have only one tire that is O.E. approved Winter Sottozero 3. Is the Lucid mobile van changing tires or only changing wheels and tires already mounted? 20" are still delayed and last thing I'd want to do it take some from a waiter. I think in central Indiana I'm asking for it to switch to the 21". Maybe I can find a local shop that will swap and store set not in the car...

I'll know by late Spring 2023 whether getting a set of 21" wheels and tires will be ok. I hit a pot hole once that did no damage to 19" but had me wondering what would have happened with a 21"

 

[Overcharged]

Hopefully the issues with the 21s can be resolved.
It's a fluid market, with and example below.
I learned that for my Gen 2 NSX, Michelin had issues developing a tire for a car that had pretty much zero wheel spin at launch (ex. 911s do spin a bit prior to hooking up and Michelin is their go to vendor) and the car pulled chunks of rubber out fo the tires. Continental ended up making a tire that worked and then upgraded it later for Honda. When the Type S came out, Honda moved to a purpose built Pirelli.

 

[Tesla2Lucid]

I just talked to a lucid REP and they said they are offering very generous trade ins for the lucid sapphire 95%+ of what you paid as long you don’t have any problems. Any of y’all planning on trading in?

Any update on this? I see a lot of DE owners chimed in that they have NOT heard anything of the like. I echo that and I (like @borski ) was at the intro in Monterey and not a peep about that! Hmmm

 

[Overcharged]

I was on Tire Rack and they have only one tire that is O.E. approved Winter Sottozero 3. Is the Lucid mobile van changing tires or only changing wheels and tires already mounted? 20" are still delayed and last thing I'd want to do it take some from a waiter. I think in central Indiana I'm asking for it to switch to the 21". Maybe I can find a local shop that will swap and store set not in the car...

I was told that I can have Goose Island store spare wheel/tire sets for me. My Lexus and Acura dealership are both less than a mile from Goose Island and they both kindly provide that service for me. I am planning on running Sotto Zero 3 run flats on 19s in the winter.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Hopefully the issues with the 21s can be resolved.
It's a fluid market, with and example below.
I learned that for my Gen 2 NSX, Michelin had issues developing a tire for a car that had pretty much zero wheel spin at launch (ex. 911s do spin a bit prior to hooking up and Michelin is their go to vendor) and the car pulled chunks of rubber out fo the tires. Continental ended up making a tire that worked and then upgraded it later for Honda. When the Type S came out, Honda moved to a purpose built Pirelli.

20" seem to be the sweet spot but supply chain problem...