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Rear Seating

hmp10

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Another video has been posted in which the reviewer specifically noted that the rear seating position in the Air with the larger battery pack is uncomfortable. Although this reviewer is generally enthusiastic about Lucid, this particular video is off base in comparing the tri-motor Plaid to the dual-motor Air on performance. However the visuals are clear when he gets in the back seat at 6:55. His knees are jacked up just as they would be when sitting in the back seat of a Model S:


I guess it's good that Lucid is now obsessing about beating Tesla at the track. It's clear they are not going to be much of a threat to big German luxury sedans in interior comfort with the bigger battery . . . or in performance with the smaller battery.

I'm wondering where the modules would have gone for the 130-kWh pack that had originally been planned for the car. It would have been much better if Lucid had sacrificed a bit of its copious storage space to placing those four modules somewhere other than the rear floorboard. Maybe cooling or wiring needs made that impractical?

I'm also wondering whether it would have been possible to stack those four modules longitudinally in a console in the middle of the back seat in order to make the Air a 4-passenger car. I'd find much more utility in a sedan that carries four older adults comfortably than one that sacrifices rear comfort to add a seldom-used fifth seating position. With pricing well above $150,000, anyway, maybe even offer a 4-seat option that opens up the rear footwells of the Dream Edition. I'd gladly pay extra for it.

This is rather depressing.
 
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BlindPass

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At this point all I can do is agree.

This hyper competition with Tesla at the track has made Lucid lose sight of their target market. Unless they only want to make 100 cars a year.
I don’t disagree, but even had they nailed their original branding they were going to be quite low volume. There’s an ever decreasing market for luxury sedans. Now take a new, premium drive train, and a company in its infancy of a capital intensive industry.

Is it possible to profitability make the EV S Class? If the German brands need to charge what they do for top trim luxury sedans, I imagine a startup lacking economies of scale and using a premium technology is harder than I give them credit for.

My coping mechanism is the belief that it’s likely more feasible for a company to become competent in luxury than it is to develop the technical competency.

That’s also the disappointing thing- in some regards it’s the easy stuff they missed on, and that’s kind of a sign of conceptually not getting it
 

hmp10

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The real question for me is do I want to pay $169,000 for a sedan that will not comfortably transport older friends on our numerous day trips and dinner outings. One of the reasons I was planning to switch from Tesla, which I have really enjoyed, is that I want to use an EV for these trips instead of my Honda Odyssey minivan.

As I posted earlier, I rode home in a Honda Accord Uber a couple of weeks ago. As the Lucid has been on my mind a lot lately, I paid careful attention to my rear seating position and the placement of my knees, which was quite comfortable. As near as I can tell from yesterday's video, I am about the same height as Ben Sullins (and many of my friends are taller). Looking at him in the back seat of the Lucid suggested considerably less comfort than he would experience in a Honda Accord.

It seems that the Dream Edition (and the Grand Touring, as well) will leave me right back where I am in terms of taking friends along.

If all I care about is blinding performance and long range, I might as well replace my P90D with a Plaid. I'd be getting a car with a more proven production record and a more developed charging infrastructure that will cost $20K less.

Perhaps I'm not a typical prospect for Lucid, with my heightened emphasis on rear seating comfort along with a desire for stellar road performance. The large German sedans fill that bill with the Mercedes S63, the BMW M760, and the Audi S8. Lucid had billed itself as the EV answer to those cars. Sadly, it seems to be missing the mark.
 
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BlindPass

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The real question for me is do I want to pay $169,000 for a sedan that will not comfortably transport older friends on our numerous day trips and dinner outings. One of the reasons I was planning to switch from Tesla, which I have really enjoyed, is that I want to use an EV for these trips instead of my Honda Odyssey minivan.

As I posted earlier, I rode home in a Honda Accord Uber a couple of weeks ago. As the Lucid has been on my mind a lot lately, I paid careful attention to my rear seating position and the placement of my knees, which was quite comfortable. As near as I can tell from yesterday's video, I am about the same height as Ben Sullins (and many of my friends are taller). Looking at him in the back seat of the Lucid suggested considerably less comfort than he would experience in a Honda Accord.

It seems that the Dream Edition (and the Grand Touring, as well) will leave me right back where I am in terms of taking friends along.

If all I care about is blinding performance and long range, I might as well replace my P90D with a Plaid. I'd be getting a car with a more proven production record and a more developed charging infrastructure that will cost $20K less.
In the end, it seems that even approaching $200k, may not get us a luxury sedan.

As a compromise, the Plaid does seem like a better value, if not also less risky. If the backseat is prohibitively awkward in both, and equal otherwise, I’ll go with the cheapwe, faster one.

But given there is such a long list of items in which Tesla has cost-cut, it would be shameful if Lucid was equal otherwise.

Sigh. I don’t feel I’ve found what I’m looking for. The EQS likely will have better luxury, but will I be able to accept their lower performance?
 

Hawk

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This issue is extremely important to me as well. However, this is not a new issue. The white Dream Edition in the Ben Sullins video is the very same "show" / preproduction car in the Lucid Studio that was filmed in the previous video that initiated our concern. We then contacted our Sales Associates to emphasize how important this shortcoming was to us and how the rear seating did not live up to their marketing promise which claimed the same comfort as the MB S class or BMW 7 series. After researching, the response we received from them was that they understood our concern and that both the Design and Engineering Dept's were working on it and would get back to us when they finalize the design.

Let's give them the time they requested to see if they can improve the rear seating.
 

hmp10

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Sigh. I don’t feel I’ve found what I’m looking for. The EQS likely will have better luxury, but will I be able to accept their lower performance?
I'm in the same boat.

I am still leaving my Dream Edition deposit with Lucid until I can actually sit in a production car at a Design Studio. I'm hoping against hope that either the videos have been misleading or that Lucid will figure out a resolution before they enter production.

I fear, though, that they have proceeded with engineering and manufacturing planning beyond the point where the real fix -- which would be to relocate those four footwell modules -- is beyond reach. Perhaps there are some band-aids that are still in reach, such as redesigning the front seat undercarriage to provide more forward foot space.
 

hmp10

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I've been poring over the graphic of the 113-kWh skateboard. It seems to me that it might be feasible to stack the rear footwell battery modules behind the rear seats, ahead of the rear drive unit.

It would impinge somewhat on trunk length, but between the trunk and frunk the Air would still have copious storage for a sedan. It would also block the pass-through from the trunk into the interior. But honestly, how many people buying a ~$150,000 sedan are going to worry more about carrying surfboards or lumber than four adults in comfort? In fact, I view fold-down rear seats as kind of weird in a luxury sedan at that price point.
 
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Dreaming

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Let's give them the time they requested to see if they can improve the rear seating.
The issue (for me) with 'giving them the time' is that there should be competitive EVs coming. If they take too much time, I'll have purchased the best I can get and won't be able to buy their product.

I'm following developments in the Mercedes EQx family and some of it looks good. Minor tweaks to better match their competition could make some of these really enticing.
 

WillChen

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how many people buying a ~$150,000 sedan are going to worry more about carrying surfboards or lumber than four adults in comfort? In fact, I view fold-down rear seats as kind of weird in a luxury sedan at that price point.
So true. I can not recall if I ever folded my rear seat in the S class and don’t see that function adding any value (probably more harm than good) to any 150k luxury sedan. Lucid really need to take the advice and closely study the S class and ensure good torsional rigidity. It’s not like we need a Lucid to be both a comfortable luxury sedan and a Bugatti/Pagani at the same time. What I do see at the moment is just a back seat similar to a Lincoln continental black. It has some good visual themes, but when you really put your rear in one, you would notice the big difference/weakness against the big Germany sedan.

By the way, not against Lincoln in anyway. It’s Navigator improved significantly compared to earlier edition. If EQS has better battery and more advanced system, even with slower acceleration and time, it would likely serve the targeted group well with the proven luxury interior and comfort.
 
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sjlaube

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I decided to cancel my deposit because of this issue. I had a Model S and turned it in early off lease because the rear sear was so uncomfortable with people's knees up around their neck. My wife and I refuse to ride in friend's model S and drive our car (Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid) instead. I don't think at this late date Lucid is going to make a change to the layout of the battery back to fix this problem.

As to folding down rear seats, I use that feature all the time. We take road trips in the Panamera and need the extra storage space we get from folding the rear seats down.

I am very disappointed that Lucid was so confusing at the launch showing cars with and without rear foot wells. I actually put down my Dream edition deposit as the presentation was ongoing, having seen the rear seat footwells. I then found out that the footwells would only be on the lowest spec car which is probably a year away.
 

hmp10

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What was particularly confusing is that they showed a Dream Edition with the recessed rear footwells (the gold car, which is a color unique to the Dream Edition) as well as showing recessed footwells in the Dream Edition order configurator that opened that day, and showing a graphic of a skateboard with recessed footwells carrying the label "Over 1000 hp" (again, unique to the Dream Edition). I have trouble believing this was not deliberately misleading on their part.

I have a 2015 Model S P90D which has been a great 2-passenger car. But every time I have to leave it in the garage because we are picking up friends, I daydream about how great it would be to have a Tesla drivetrain under a Mercedes S-Class body. Then Lucid came along, and I thought I had found the answer.

So much for daydreams.
 

Hawk

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My confidence level in Lucid’s promotional claims and stated capabilities has been severely eroded by their confusing and misleading actions. In addition, they were unwilling to share or discuss any of the potential changes, they have told me they are considering, to improve the rear seating. I'm simply unwilling to spend $169,000 on an unproven car, from an unproven company, given their actions and response. There are many other choices.

I'm out! Have formally requested a refund of our $25,500 Dream edition reservation deposit.
 
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hmp10

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Hawk, I'm sorry it's come to this, but I certainly understand your reasoning. If you also choose to depart the forum, your informative and reasoned posts will surely be missed.
 

Hawk

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Hawk, I'm sorry it's come to this, but I certainly understand your reasoning. If you also choose to depart the forum, your informative and reasoned posts will surely be missed.
Hawk, if you end up leaving, I just want to thank you for all the past assistance in our questions.
Thank you both for your kind words. It has been rather disappointing. However, it is the right decision for both my wife and myself as we looked to this car for transporting our family and friends comfortably. My Sales associate today, once again, confirmed that there will not be a recessed footwell (foot garage) in either the Dream Edition or Grand Touring. It was also very evident from the discussion that they did not have the foresight to comprehend that this would become as big an issue as it has. They believed the quality of the materials and design (look) would provide the quality comfort that customers would expect. They are now scrambling to find some type of remedy / improvement and are "refocused." Hopefully, they will will find a solution that works for you.
 

hmp10

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As to folding down rear seats, I use that feature all the time. We take road trips in the Panamera and need the extra storage space we get from folding the rear seats down.
I understand why you might need additional storage in a Panamera, which has only a conventional rear trunk. However, with the large two-level front trunk in the Lucid and the two-level storage in the rear trunk, do you think the folding seats would be necessary in the Air? Or is it because you carry unusually long things? (Lucid has said a bag of golf clubs will fit sideways in the rear trunk.)
 

sjlaube

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I understand why you might need additional storage in a Panamera, which has only a conventional rear trunk. However, with the large two-level front trunk in the Lucid and the two-level storage in the rear trunk, do you think the folding seats would be necessary in the Air? Or is it because you carry unusually long things? (Lucid has said a bag of golf clubs will fit sideways in the rear trunk.)
We travel with our two beagles and their two cages (which fold flat) We need the relatively flat space to fit everything in. I am very disappointed that Lucid decided to ignore rear passenger comfort just so they could claim the 500 mile range.
On the positive side I did get my deposit back in days. When I cancelled my deposit on the Tesla Roadster it took almost 10 phone calls and 3 months to get them to finally give me back the money.
In the meantime I am thinking about ordering a Taycan Turbo and if Lucid gets its act together I can also switch then.
 

hmp10

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Yeah, Tesla can be annoyingly slow and also hard to reach. My front passenger door handle froze in the extended position last Saturday (Oct 3), and the door won't open from the outside. The earliest service appointment I could get was October 25. So add another three weeks to the couple of months of down time I've already accumulated waiting for service since I got the car in 2015. I hope Lucid is going to do a better job than Tesla on that front . . . if I end up going with Lucid.
 
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