Rawlinson Interview At Geneva Auto Show 3/4/24

[SaratogaLefty]

I just finished watching a video of three CEO's (Renault; Lucid (Rawlinson); and Pininfarina) talking about EV's and the future. The part I found very interesting was Peter discussing how bi-directional charging and specifically V2G will be used to help utilities and businesses offset the peak usage times by drawing energy from the EV and then the EV can recharge during the off peak times. He went on to say the Lucid's Wunderbox is already set up to facilitate this happening. Hopefully this means maybe we will soon be receiving the update that will allow V2H and V2G!!

 

[joec]

I hope he’s talking about V2G because they are actually close to releasing it. Would be another nice nudge for people on the fence about the car. And it’s something they could be working on completely independently from Gravity, while still benefiting the Gravity launch later this year.

Fingers crossed.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Yeah that is my hope as well. Got to believe they are still working on it and maybe sometime this year???

 

[HariK]

I am afraid that v2g could be 120v single phase and we have to modify our house wiring at the breaker to use it. 240v and l2 120v will need 3 wires l1 l2 neutral from Lucid or an expensive transformer 240v one side and 240v with center tap on the other side

 

[SaratogaLefty]

I guess you can check out how the Ford Lightning 150 does it??

 

[DeaneG]

I am afraid that v2g could be 120v single phase and we have to modify our house wiring at the breaker to use it. 240v and l2 120v will need 3 wires l1 l2 neutral from Lucid or an expensive transformer 240v one side and 240v with center tap on the other side

Both V2G and V2H will need something very similar to this $2K piece of equipment: a set of contactors, and an autotransformer, in an enclosure. It's standard stuff for battery-backed homes. The solar PV aspect of this particular box is incidental. PV just adds one more circuit breaker to the box. Installing this is quite a task for an electrician. It could take a day or two depending on your home's existing electricals.

IQ System Controller 2 | Enphase

enphase.com

 

[chris]

May I ask why people are so excited about this ability and want it?
Here is my biggest reason for NOT wanting it (and not using it):
A battery pack has only so many cycles. Heck, our warranty only kicks if if we go below 70% and guess what, your warranty replacement can be refurbished and only has to meet 70%!

^ So I don't want to waste cycles 'giving back to the grid' instead of using it in my EV to drive!

 

[DeaneG]

...A battery pack has only so many cycles. Heck, our warranty only kicks if if we go below 70% and guess what, your warranty replacement can be refurbished and only has to meet 70%!
^ So I don't want to waste cycles 'giving back to the grid' instead of using it in my EV to drive!

Agreed; I'd only use the car for V2H during outages. Most newer home batteries use LFP chemistry, which has a longer cycle life and can withstand being charged to 100% or 0%. Most cars use NMC for better energy density, but it comes at a cost in cycle life and sensitivity to SOC.

 

[Lucken]

May I ask why people are so excited about this ability and want it?
Here is my biggest reason for NOT wanting it (and not using it):
A battery pack has only so many cycles. Heck, our warranty only kicks if if we go below 70% and guess what, your warranty replacement can be refurbished and only has to meet 70%!

^ So I don't want to waste cycles 'giving back to the grid' instead of using it in my EV to drive!

I think most people are thinking about it in terms of providing temporary power in the event of a power outage. Therefore the use cycle would be very minimal.

 

[chris]

I think most people are thinking about it in terms of providing temporary power in the event of a power outage. Therefore the use cycle would be very minimal.

oh okay. Those who live in areas with more frequent power outages already have whole house a built in back up (like whole house natural gas generator) but I can certainly see it for self use in a pinch.. I just have zero interest in the concept of 'giving back to the grid' at peak times like I've read about from time to time (the whole idea that you must keep your EV plugged in and power can go in either direction at any time depending on use in that area).

 

[segbrk]

oh okay. Those who live in areas with more frequent power outages already have whole house a built in back up (like whole house natural gas generator) but I can certainly see it for self use in a pinch.. I just have zero interest in the concept of 'giving back to the grid' at peak times like I've read about from time to time (the whole idea that you must keep your EV plugged in and power can go in either direction at any time depending on use in that area).

I may have missed the point, but the impression I was getting from Luca de Meo of Renault in this interview was that Renault wants to get in on that grid-stabilizing action for their own gain. Letting my imagination run with it, I wonder if they're thinking of offloading some of the cost of batteries by charging power companies to store power in them. As in, you drive your new (much cheaper) Renault home and plug it in, it offers up storage, your power company pays Renault rather than just you for the temporary storage, Renault makes up for the discounted rate. That's certainly not going to happen at scale in the US anytime soon with how fractured and outdated most of our electric services are, but maybe that could work in some European countries?

 

[SaratogaLefty]

I am also in the group that wants V2H primarily for home power outages.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Even if I have to spend $3-4 thousand to get it all set up with my existing LCHCS and my installed solar that is still much less than the cost of Tesla PowerWalls or a generator (which is also very noisy).

 

[DeaneG]

Even if I have to spend $3-4 thousand to get it all set up with my existing LCHCS and my installed solar that is still much less than the cost of Tesla PowerWalls or a generator (which is also very noisy).

And you'd have to refuel the generator a couple times per day.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

And you'd have to refuel the generator a couple times per day.

They can be hooked up to the natural gas line.