Range Questions after first trip

[fisheral]

I find it interesting that my wife's Subaru Solterra is seeing less than a 20% reduction in range, so its achievable mileage (I tested it) is about 180 miles out of 227 EPA, while the Lucid is doing about 200ish miles out of 410 EPA driven conservatively. How her hilariously under-batteried car is getting range even remotely close to my Air is a mystery to me.

 

[jedwin]

A series of links, I like the chart curves, but the EPA 5-cycle also runs scenarios with a lot of HVAC disabled which seems to be kind of edge case...

Fuel Economy and EV Range Testing | US EPA

EPA's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory (NVFEL) tests new cars and trucks sold in the U.S. to ensure that they comply with federal emissions and fuel economy standards.

www.epa.gov

Interesting to see here that the EPA 5-cycle test applies a 0.7x conversion to the highway miles achieved on the test, BEFORE doing the combination factor with the city driving. So the reported highway MPGe is already adjusted for more aggressive driving...??

If the 2-cycle tests, which produce a lower MPGe, appear to be closer to real-world (which seems to be the case), it sure does seem that the EPA algorithms/math needs to be further adjusted on the 5-cycle test. Or just dropped in favor of the 2-cycle?

Which companies use the 5-cycle, other than Tesla and Lucid?

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Cars, not EVs. People forget that ICE vehicles never meet their stated range either, just because nobody thinks about it since gas stations are prevalent.

No. Not true at all my friend at least over the past 10-15 years with tweaks to the EPA protocols. Many ICE cars exceed EPA highway numbers by 10-15%.

 

[borski]

No. Not true at all my friend at least over the past 10-15 years with tweaks to the EPA protocols. Many ICE cars exceed EPA highway numbers by 10-15%.

Tell that to the GMC Acadia I just drove across the country

 

[Daniel2022AT]

There are several videos on YouTube, including mine, showing how to achieve EPA. Essentially you need to duplicate their test conditions, which I believe is under 60mph without accessories, etc., etc. Now is that realistic? No way. But that is a basis for comparison since all cars use the exact same test conditions.

It actually much easier than that. 60-70F ambient temp with no HVAC. Flat geography. Always use ACC and never accelerate manually. Keep speed to 72-74 mph. I did 4.5.

 

[Bobby]

It actually much easier than that. 60-70F ambient temp with no HVAC. Flat geography. Always use ACC and never accelerate manually. Keep speed to 72-74 mph. I did 4.5.

Well done and a lesson to those on the forum that say it's impossible.

 

[BS8899]

Well done and a lesson to those on the forum that say it's impossible.

Re-elect Jimmy Carter, and change the hwy speed to 50mph. All the efficiency problems solved!

 

[Pragmatic]

Not to continue a political side track but the 55 mph speed limit was signed into law by Richard Nixon not Jimmy Carter.

 

[newlucidguy]

A Dodge Hellcat can get an impressive 21 miles per gallon on the highway under “normal” driving conditions. But if you floor the accelerator, it can empty its fuel tank in just about 16 minutes. Point is, your right foot is the key to your car’s range. More than anything. Temperature, wheels, AC/heat status. Speed and headwind play a big role, too. Just like a gasoline engine. On your return trip, be cognizant of acceleration and speed and report back if you notice anything different. Compare your kWh/mile.

By the way, your Lucid is the most efficient one to date. https://lucidowners.com/threads/why...mprovements-to-the-2025-gt.10673/#post-236527

and, ACC is your friend (at least typically) to maximize range in any EV

 

[SaaSManKS]

Lucid not greatly exaggerate anything. All of the ranges that they quote were achieved using the same exact EPA testing as other vehicle brands. I have been able to achieve EPA level efficiency when I drive like the EPA test. Now, I wish that the range indicator inside the car would take into account driving history and conditions to be more accurate, but it doesn’t.

I guess that prompts the question; are EPA estimates (let’s modify this to EV estimates) accurate for real world driving? I believe that consensus to be “no” so why would they tie themselves to a figure that sets themselves up for failure…If others in the industry are modifying their range from the EPA standard (esp the largest ev/auto mfg in NA) then why wouldn’t they want to align with them to give customers confidence in their driving?

 

[SaaSManKS]

Cars, not EVs. People forget that ICE vehicles never meet their stated range either, just because nobody thinks about it since gas stations are prevalent.

Very true, however if I got 8 mpg vs the EPA 12 mpg that’s negligible in the course of a tank vs a battery that has a 50-60% variance in range estimates

 

[Blue Lectroid]

Very true, however if I got 8 mpg vs the EPA 12 mpg that’s negligible in the course of a tank vs a battery that has a 50-60% variance in range estimates

Where is the 50-60% variance coming from? We are in the depths of Winter and I am seeing a negative 11% variance vs EPA on my 2025 AGT. I fully expect that in Spring, Summer and Fall I will more than make up for that and be at, or above, EPA…

You can get EPA in these cars (at least the 2025’s) over the course of a calendar year. Comparing an EV to EPA in Winter is just going to make you miserable…

 

[hydbob]

I guess that prompts the question; are EPA estimates (let’s modify this to EV estimates) accurate for real world driving? I believe that consensus to be “no” so why would they tie themselves to a figure that sets themselves up for failure…If others in the industry are modifying their range from the EPA standard (esp the largest ev/auto mfg in NA) then why wouldn’t they want to align with them to give customers confidence in their driving?

Because standards are still standards. It's a quantifiable amount under certain conditions. Again, the onus is on the consumer to adjust and educate what EPA means vs reality. There are locations and driving conditions and situations where EPA measurables are achieved. DEAD HORSE beaten to death on this forum already.

Very true, however if I got 8 mpg vs the EPA 12 mpg that’s negligible in the course of a tank vs a battery that has a 50-60% variance in range estimates

I wouldn't say a 33% difference is negligible anyway you measure it...

 

[stratus]

Where is the 50-60% variance coming from? We are in the depths of Winter and I am seeing a negative 11% variance vs EPA on my 2025 AGT. I fully expect that in Spring, Summer and Fall I will more than make up for that and be at, or above, EPA…

You can get EPA in these cars (at least the 2025’s) over the course of a calendar year. Comparing an EV to EPA in Winter is just going to make you miserable…

While a 50 to 60% variance seems unusual, there have been numerous occasions in the dead of winter here where I have only achieved 50% of my maximum m/kWh on my 2022 GT. These very low efficiency numbers generally happen when it’s extremely cold. That being said, for most of the winter I average in the upper twos to lower threes m/kWh. Importantly this is mostly in town driving with lots of steep hills and stop and go driving. Perhaps the 2025 models, with the heat pump , have made a significant difference. I can also attest that the stated max efficiencies are achievable with steady state driving in the 55 to 70 mph range. I have done it twice on 300 to 500 mile drives and it’s fantastic.

I am not in any way complaining as I expected these numbers and I still get a ton of mileage out of a full charge.

I am really happy to hear that you are getting such great numbers during winter!!!

 

[Blue Lectroid]

While a 50 to 60% variance seems unusual, there have been numerous occasions in the dead of winter here where I have only achieved 50% of my maximum m/kWh on my 2022 GT. These very low efficiency numbers generally happen when it’s extremely cold. That being said, for most of the winter I average in the upper twos to lower threes m/kWh. Importantly this is mostly in town driving with lots of steep hills and stop and go driving. Perhaps the 2025 models, with the heat pump , have made a significant difference. I can also attest that the stated max efficiencies are achievable with steady state driving in the 55 to 70 mph range. I have done it twice on 300 to 500 mile drives and it’s fantastic.

I am not in any way complaining as I expected these numbers and I still get a ton of mileage out of a full charge.

I am really happy to hear that you are getting such great numbers during winter!!!

Got it! Thanks for the explanation. I definitely think the heat pump makes a big difference. The other thing I find really key is pre-conditioning the car while plugged in. By way of example, today I needed to run a few errands and make two stops over 15 miles. I warmed the cabin up to 70 degrees while my car was plugged in in the garage. It was 34 degrees out with a howling wind and yet I didn’t even turn on the heat once I unplugged because I had preheated the cabin. So, over my 15 miles today I didn’t use the climate control at all while driving and it never even got chilly inside the car because the sun was shining…

I guess what I am saying is that I actually enjoy thinking about efficiency. I’m not willing to be outright uncomfortable to achieve it, but I will make conscious decisions with efficiency in mind.

Another example is driving 65mph on long trips rather than 75mph. Often this difference can mean skipping a charging stop and actually SAVING time even though you’re driving slower. I find mind games like that fun.

Of course this car is such a pisser to drive, that there are times I forget about efficiency altogether and just let it rip!

Enjoy!

 

[stratus]

Got it! Thanks for the explanation. I definitely think the heat pump makes a big difference. The other thing I find really key is pre-conditioning the car while plugged in. By way of example, today I needed to run a few errands and make two stops over 15 miles. I warmed the cabin up to 70 degrees while my car was plugged in in the garage. It was 34 degrees out with a howling wind and yet I didn’t even turn on the heat once I unplugged because I had preheated the cabin. So, over my 15 miles today I didn’t use the climate control at all while driving and it never even got chilly inside the car because the sun was shining…

I guess what I am saying is that I actually enjoy thinking about efficiency. I’m not willing to be outright uncomfortable to achieve it, but I will make conscious decisions with efficiency in mind.

Another example is driving 65mph on long trips rather than 75mph. Often this difference can mean skipping a charging stop and actually SAVING time even though you’re driving slower. I find mind games like that fun.

Of course this car is such a pisser to drive, that there are times I forget about efficiency altogether and just let it rip!

Enjoy!

I wholeheartedly agree. It’s occasionally fun to try and max out efficiency and it’s also fun to not give a shit about efficiency.

 

[SaaSManKS]

Very true, however if I got 8 mpg vs the EPA 12 mpg that’s negligible in the course of a tank vs a battery that has a 50-60% variance in range estimates

Ac not withstanding

Because standards are still standards. It's a quantifiable amount under certain conditions. Again, the onus is on the consumer to adjust and educate what EPA means vs reality. There are locations and driving conditions and situations where EPA measurables are achieved. DEAD HORSE beaten to death on this forum already.


I wouldn't say a 33% difference is negligible anyway you measure it...

all fair points, but the difference is that battery degradation still happens when you’re not driving it; where ICE cars don’t loose gas when they are parked I guess

 

[hydbob]

Ac not withstanding

all fair points, but the difference is that battery degradation still happens when you’re not driving it; where ICE cars don’t loose gas when they are parked I guess

No, but belts degrade over time. Oil can't sit forever, and neither can gas or your lines get clogged.

 

[Knucklehead]

Another example is driving 65mph on long trips rather than 75mph.

I am physically unable to do that.

 

[SaaSManKS]

I've never had a ICE issue where I had gas clog a line; but yes belts and oil do wear, but I'm spending that and then some on tires every 10 months bc the rims don't fit anything other than summer tires...still, Yes @hydbob I hear you but I would consider that a pivot in the conversation from range anxiety; I'm also sitting with a car without a heat pump, drafts in cold weather that leaves my windows fogged up, i can't get my rear bumper fixed because I have to drive 4/5 hours away to an approved repair shop, which means I can't uber home, my windshield replacement costs 4-5 times the cost of a normal windshield (I have a pure) but hey, OTA's are actually really cool. (seriously they are) I just wish my car didn't drop 66% in the 2 years I've owned it, but hey I've beat that record worse than people complaining about EA chargers not doing 350 kw. Or not having working chargers....

BTW I can't open my frunk bc it's all frunked up...