Phantom braking

[maractwin]

Today for the first time I had the car apply the brakes to a dead stop while I was driving. I was trying to exit a retail parking lot, which had a dip for drainage where the driveway entered the road. I was going maybe 10 mph, there was no cross traffic on the road, and the car panic-stopped me from exiting.

I think it interpreted the dip in the pavement as a solid wall I was going to hit. This seemed similar to the problem I have seen a couple of times backing out our driveway where there is a similar dip. if I pause in front of that dip, even though the car is in reverse, it sometimes starts driving forward instead. It seems to be afraid of driving over these dips in the pavement, interpreting them as collision hazards.

I'm not happy about this, but don't want to turn off collision avoidance (if that's even possible).

-Mark

 

[borski]

Today for the first time I had the car apply the brakes to a dead stop while I was driving. I was trying to exit a retail parking lot, which had a dip for drainage where the driveway entered the road. I was going maybe 10 mph, there was no cross traffic on the road, and the car panic-stopped me from exiting.

I think it interpreted the dip in the pavement as a solid wall I was going to hit. This seemed similar to the problem I have seen a couple of times backing out our driveway where there is a similar dip. if I pause in front of that dip, even though the car is in reverse, it sometimes starts driving forward instead. It seems to be afraid of driving over these dips in the pavement, interpreting them as collision hazards.

I'm not happy about this, but don't want to turn off collision avoidance (if that's even possible).

-Mark

It is possible to turn off, but it’s actually trying to keep you from scraping your front. I agree it’s overly aggressive.

I have not seen the “phantom braking” happen while driving otherwise, though.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Today for the first time I had the car apply the brakes to a dead stop while I was driving. I was trying to exit a retail parking lot, which had a dip for drainage where the driveway entered the road. I was going maybe 10 mph, there was no cross traffic on the road, and the car panic-stopped me from exiting.

I think it interpreted the dip in the pavement as a solid wall I was going to hit. This seemed similar to the problem I have seen a couple of times backing out our driveway where there is a similar dip. if I pause in front of that dip, even though the car is in reverse, it sometimes starts driving forward instead. It seems to be afraid of driving over these dips in the pavement, interpreting them as collision hazards.

I'm not happy about this, but don't want to turn off collision avoidance (if that's even possible).

-Mark

I had similar thing happened to me backing out of my inclined driveway. And when I backed out from shopping center parking space, it hit brake for me and actually detected a fast incoming traffic perpendicular my direction to avoid collision. That is very smart of radar/sonar. For the blind spots cameras don’t always necessary pick up in the rear, I wonder if Tesla is really going to ditch those radar and ultrasonic sensors for the sake of cost.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I love this feature but hate it’s implementation, as they need very very much to give an option for warning but not intervention. I have to turn it off otherwise I cannot back out of my driveway without a violent brake slam, as my house is on a busy two way street, and I’ve had cars stop to let me out of the driveway but the Lucid STILL wouldn’t let me back out of my driveway so I had to go into the pilot panel and turn off the feature while people are honking and my wife is yelling at me.

So you can mark this day as when a Lucid Fanboy complained about the car haha.

 

[Minnesota Mike]

So you can mark this day as when a Lucid Fanboy complained about the car haha

Inform the press!

 

[joec]

I get angina whenever I see the words Phantom Braking, so this does not make me happy. It's good that it's not happening at highway speeds. But I sure would like to see Lucid address this, and fast.

 

[borski]

I get angina whenever I see the words Phantom Braking, so this does not make me happy. It's good that it's not happening at highway speeds. But I sure would like to see Lucid address this, and fast.

It’s not the same kind of phantom braking as Tesla, to be clear - it’s just trying to keep you from scraping the car on a high grade. *Usually*, it’s actually correct, and when I don’t listen to it I do end up scraping haha - it’s just sometimes unavoidable because the car is so low.

I’ve never had it not let me easily override it, and like I said, it exclusively happens on driveway dips.

 

[Fischman]

I have a dip at the end of my driveway and my Acura does the same thing. Sounds the alarm and applies the brakes.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Inform the press!

I told AutoEvolution so hopefully this will shut down Lucid for good since Rawlinson is the connecting factor between how bad Tesla was and how bad Lucid is now. . Just kidding, I didn’t inform AutoEvolution because they aren’t the press, they’re just a hater blog.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I have a dip at the end of my driveway and my Acura does the same thing. Sounds the alarm and applies the brakes.

Yeah wife’s Subaru does the same thing, but you can set it to warn only and not slam on the brakes.

 

[maractwin]

It’s not the same kind of phantom braking as Tesla, to be clear - it’s just trying to keep you from scraping the car on a high grade. *Usually*, it’s actually correct, and when I don’t listen to it I do end up scraping haha - it’s just sometimes unavoidable because the car is so low.

I have once scraped bottom on the car, and the car did nothing to prevent me. But several times I've had this phantom braking. So I wouldn't say it's the same thing.

 

[borski]

I have once scraped bottom on the car, and the car did nothing to prevent me. But several times I've had this phantom braking. So I wouldn't say it's the same thing.

I’m not saying it’s the same thing, I’m saying that’s why it’s braking. That it didn’t work once doesn’t mean that’s not what it’s trying to do.

 

[changinator]

Today for the first time I had the car apply the brakes to a dead stop while I was driving. I was trying to exit a retail parking lot, which had a dip for drainage where the driveway entered the road. I was going maybe 10 mph, there was no cross traffic on the road, and the car panic-stopped me from exiting.

I think it interpreted the dip in the pavement as a solid wall I was going to hit. This seemed similar to the problem I have seen a couple of times backing out our driveway where there is a similar dip. if I pause in front of that dip, even though the car is in reverse, it sometimes starts driving forward instead. It seems to be afraid of driving over these dips in the pavement, interpreting them as collision hazards.

I'm not happy about this, but don't want to turn off collision avoidance (if that's even possible).

-Mark

how deep are these dips? can you take some pics of these dips and/or video if you can replicate it and submit them so hopefully Lucid knows to calibrate it in future updates. does it only happen at certain speeds (i.e. rolling 5mph)? have you had issues with the inverse, steep or tall speed bumps? do you have software 2.0 yet?

at the very least, it sounds like it was a relatively safe yet understandingly annoying phantom break that can be fixed in future updates. so far at least though, there no reports of actual unsafe phantom breaking in mid traffic and/or on highway speeds unlike in Teslas and many other manufacturers

 

[borski]

how deep are these dips? can you take some pics of these dips and/or video if you can replicate it and submit them so hopefully Lucid knows to calibrate it in future updates. does it only happen at certain speeds (i.e. rolling 5mph)? have you had issues with the inverse, steep or tall speed bumps? do you have software 2.0 yet?

at the very least, it sounds like it was a relatively safe yet understandingly annoying phantom break that can be fixed in future updates. so far at least though, there no reports of actual unsafe phantom breaking in mid traffic and/or on highway speeds unlike in Teslas and many other manufacturers

No issues with speed bumps. It’s dips that are at high angles which can cause the car to scrape.

 

[Tesla2.0]

The car never sudden brake on me intentionally on the roads/highway yet. It did brake a few times when I backed out from parking spot and coming out of parking lot to street with limited visibility. In each instance, it avoided me hitting a child riding bicycle and a car coming at perpendicular direction too fast all the sudden. I think it’s damn good at preventing collision.

 

[hmp10]

The car never sudden brake on me intentionally on the roads/highway yet. It did brake a few times when I backed out from parking spot and coming out of parking lot to street with limited visibility. In each instance, it avoided me hitting a child riding bicycle and a car coming at perpendicular direction too fast all the sudden. I think it’s damn good at preventing collision.

Same with me, but it does produce internal conflict. It's annoys me when the car does something I wasn't expecting, but it's a feature I wouldn't want to be without.

 

[joec]

Same with me, but it does produce internal conflict. It's annoys me when the car does something I wasn't expecting, but it's a feature I wouldn't want to be without.

This is my dilemma. The shock of the car suddenly stopping is extremely unpleasant and frightening. I get that it’s trying to save me from scraping something under the car, but the damage to my spine is probably not worth the trade off.

But I of course want it to stop me in an actual emergency. So I wouldn’t want to turn it off.

There has to be some sort of tweaking they can do to make it less aggressive at slower speeds, or to not engage in less dire circumstances.

 

[hydbob]

This is my dilemma. The shock of the car suddenly stopping is extremely unpleasant and frightening. I get that it’s trying to save me from scraping something under the car, but the damage to my spine is probably not worth the trade off.

But I of course want it to stop me in an actual emergency. So I wouldn’t want to turn it off.

There has to be some sort of tweaking they can do to make it less aggressive at slower speeds, or to not engage in less dire circumstances.

If you are inching forward or back it doesn't actually brake. I've found the emergency braking only occurs when I'm doing those maneuvers at speeds I shouldn't be, but understandably, for the driveway situations, I know my driveway better than Lucid. After the first braking incident, I just slowly creep out and while I get a warning about an imminent collision, the car doesn't brake and I continue to gently press on the accelerator to keep moving. It's a lot more delicate and requires feathering the throttle more than I would like, but like @hmp10 said, it's a feature I need to keep on.

 

[borski]

If you are inching forward or back it doesn't actually brake. I've found the emergency braking only occurs when I'm doing those maneuvers at speeds I shouldn't be, but understandably, for the driveway situations, I know my driveway better than Lucid. After the first braking incident, I just slowly creep out and while I get a warning about an imminent collision, the car doesn't brake and I continue to gently press on the accelerator to keep moving. It's a lot more delicate and requires feathering the throttle more than I would like, but like @hmp10 said, it's a feature I need to keep on.

This is my experience too. At a low enough speed, it makes me aware it’s not proud of me, but doesn’t slam on the brakes to let me know, haha.

 

[Tesla2.0]

It surprised me each time, then I was enlightened and relieved afterwards. I don’t think I will ever turn those ADAS features off tbh.