NACS (Tesla adapter) versus CCS Megathread

[HariK]

My 2 cents to this discussion Sony was the 1st with betamax and yet VHS and VHS c won the video tape market. History has many examples where the 1st mover may not succeed in long term. That said the discussion is not about CCS vs NACS standard for protocol. Protocol is basically CCS worldwide and just like we have phone chargers which work worldwide 110v to 240v and 50 or 60Hz with mechanical adapters, that is what we will see. Tesla may not really profit from the NACS coonector and Tesla will not have the majority market share in the US or anywhere in the world. The barrier to entry is very low in the EV market. It all comes down to battery manufacturing technology and capacity. 15 years from now it is entirely possible that we will see solid state battery half the price of current gen technology which allows charging 0 to 100% in 10 minutes and provide a range of 300 miles and the price is no different than current ICE adjusted for inflation and charging will be as common as the gas stations. That will be a whole new ball game.

 

[Adnillien]

Tesla proposed to all OEMs they use the Tesla plug and Supercharger Network. For many years. Before they rebranded as NACS. Not revisionist history

You are forgetting that Tesla wanted patent royalties for using the Tesla connector until they rebranded their connector NACS. It is much different situation now.

 

[Rob Stark]

You are forgetting that Tesla wanted patent royalties for using the Tesla connector until they rebranded their connector NACS. It is much different situation now.

I am not forgetting that. I said the problem of other OEMs getting on board was cost.

CharIN gets royalty fees from CCS connectors. As a general rule in capitalist countries you get paid for your work. You don't give it away for free.

The pool of federal funds have changed the economics on NACS from Tesla's perspective.

 

[quantum]

Ford and GM do not see a profitable path forward in their transition to EV's- union/legacy costs/dealerships are too expensive to mainatain and make them uncompetitive. Their EV's obviously not as popular as Tesla. So what do you do? You join NACS to get more sales.

 

[quantum]

The whole thing is pretty amazing, Tesla is forecast to reap billions in supercharger revenue from these deals. I guess Musk strikes again, but perhaps (?) something positive will come of this.

Tesla will lose more than they make from this. Less car sales.

 

[Tâm]

Tesla proposed to all OEMs they use the Tesla plug and Supercharger Network. For many years. Before they rebranded as NACS. Not revisionist history.

Tesla opened up its patents in 2014 and Xpeng quickly took the offer to become a Tesla Clone with no problems.

Notice open patents also include Tesla charging protocol, with a string attached, as well but very few took the offer except for Aptera at that time.

The slow uptake was because Tesla charging protocol was only semi-open due to the condition that those who copy its charging protocol need to share the expense to pay for the charging structure. This particular semi-open patent sounded like an upfront royalty fee.

Aptera didn't count because it still has not produced any car just yet.

The crack happened when Tesla dropped the demand of infrastructure cost sharing. NACS could now be copied by anyone with no permission asked, for no cost, no infrastructure sharing cost needed (if you don't use Tesla facilities).

 

[Bobby]

Anyone else sick of discussing this?

 

[Tâm]

Tesla will lose more than they make from this. Less car sales.

Tesla sales demand has been declining.

It quickly responded by:

.Slashing prices in December.
.Adjusted prices to be eligible for consumer Federal Tax Credit.
.Restart the referral program.

NACS is part of the response to the declining sales.

People may hate Tesla but it works hard for its money and it quickly responds when the revenue is threatened.

 

[Tâm]

Anyone else sick of discussing this?

Not me.

It's like the beast is about to die with its declining stock price that went down from $314.67 to $101.81 in December due declining demand and some genius just injected the drug called NACS and the stock price is now $274.45!

It's an inspirational tale.

 

[Neurio]

Anyone else sick of discussing this?

This seems to have become a pissing match between the Tesla acolytes and everyone else. I'd say lock away

 

[Tâm]

This seems to have become a pissing match between the Tesla acolytes and everyone else. I'd say lock away

Locking this 1 thread might mushroom into many other threads and that means more free exposures, more free advertisements.

Locking 10 threads is worse than consolidating all in 1 single open thread.

 

[invalidname]

wouldn't locking a megathread be contradictory of a having a megathread in the first place?

Lucid is the last major American BEV manufacturer that has not announced using NACS, looks bad.

Even without V4 superchargers, most of Lucid owners will benefit from using Tesla's V3 superchargers since Touring and Pure models rarely go above 150kwh when charging atm

 

[Neurio]

Locking this 1 thread might mushroom into many other threads and that means more free exposures, more free advertisements.

Locking 10 threads is worse than consolidating all in 1 single open thread.

Free advertisement of what? Tesla? I think everyone here knows who Tesla is...

Even without V4 superchargers, most of Lucid owners will benefit from using Tesla's V3 superchargers since Touring and Pure models rarely go above 150kwh when charging atm

50 vs 150 is a HUGE difference. I have zero interest in sitting at a charger only getting 50kw, especially if on a road trip. No thanks.

 

[Tâm]

Free advertisement of what? Tesla? I think everyone here knows who Tesla is...

No. Not Tesla. Free advertisements for NACS. There were numerous threads about it. Thankfully, it's now sequestered down to only 3 threads.

That's too many in my opinion.

 

[Tâm]

Texas is the first state that requires NACS in addition to Federal required CCS if a company wants to get Texas funding.

Exclusive: Tesla wins as Texas requires state-backed charging stations to include its plug

Tesla scored a series of victories for its charging technology on Tuesday, capped by Texas saying it would require electric vehicle charging companies to include both Tesla's standard as well as the nationally recognized CCS if they want to be part of a state program to electrify highways using...

www.reuters.com

What a difference a year made when Texas government didn't like Tesla Supercharger and preferred CCS instead:

Tesla Superchargers Would Save Texas Money, But State Denied Tesla Grants

Tesla lost grants to rivals even though it only applied for minimal funding, and its Supercharger stations cost 1/5th of the competition to deploy.

insideevs.com

 

[thecodingart]

Ford and GM do not see a profitable path forward in their transition to EV's- union/legacy costs/dealerships are too expensive to mainatain and make them uncompetitive. Their EV's obviously not as popular as Tesla. So what do you do? You join NACS to get more sales.

That is not why Ford/GM moved.

NACS ports save on manufacturers costs … and it looks good to have access to the supercharger network in the public eye. It’s really that simple.

 

[xponents]

That is not why Ford/GM moved.

NACS ports save on manufacturers costs … and it looks good to have access to the supercharger network in the public eye. It’s really that simple.

Same, I dont see how NACS ”gains more sales.” Unless people believe the “ease” of SCs, except now the lines will be even longer!

 

[thecodingart]

Same, I dont see how NACS ”gains more sales.” Unless people believe the “ease” of SCs, except now the lines will be even longer!

I mean, our engineers at Ford literally said what I’m saying . I’m stating the actual reasons rather speculation.

 

[hydbob]

Let's stir this shit pot of speculation even more by presenting this scenario of...what happens if Tesla denies Lucid access to the Supercharger Network and just flat out says no?

 

[joec]

Let's stir this shit pot of speculation even more by presenting this scenario of...what happens if Tesla denies Lucid access to the Supercharger Network and just flat out says no?

There you go, talking about Lucid on a Lucid forum. Don’t you know this place is only for Tesla conversation now?