NACS Charging at Tesla SCs

[Ron_Burgundy]

Creating this thread as I don’t see something specific to Tesla SCs and I have a question.

Plug and charge only works on V3 and V4, I believe. But can we still charge at a v2, we just have to do it via the app? Curious because I plugged into a B2 today, handshake started, then it said “charging stopped”. The SC shows as not compatible in the Lucid app, but I don’t know how accurate the app is…

 

[borski]

Creating this thread as I don’t see something specific to Tesla SCs and I have a question.

Plug and charge only works on V3 and V4, I believe. But can we still charge at a v2, we just have to do it via the app? Curious because I plugged into a B2 today, handshake started, then it said “charging stopped”. The SC shows as not compatible in the Lucid app, but I don’t know how accurate the app is…

The app is accurate re: compatibility.

Cribbing from @jered:
“…part of the NACS standardization was changing the signaling protocol between the EVSE and the vehicle from Tesla-proprietary to ISO 15118 (as used by CCS1). Older Superchargers only support the Tesla protocol while newer ones support both.

Older Tesla vehicles also only support the old protocol -- my 2019 X cannot use a CCS1-NACS adaptor (or a future NACS-plug at a third party charger) because it doesn't have a NACS port -- it has a Tesla Supercharger port which is physically the same but electrically different.”

(From https://lucidowners.com/threads/can-a-gravity-use-any-and-all-tesla-superchargers.12378/post-271726)

 

[jrreno]

The app is accurate re: compatibility.

Cribbing from @jered:
“…part of the NACS standardization was changing the signaling protocol between the EVSE and the vehicle from Tesla-proprietary to ISO 15118 (as used by CCS1). Older Superchargers only support the Tesla protocol while newer ones support both.

Older Tesla vehicles also only support the old protocol -- my 2019 X cannot use a CCS1-NACS adaptor (or a future NACS-plug at a third party charger) because it doesn't have a NACS port -- it has a Tesla Supercharger port which is physically the same but electrically different.”

(From https://lucidowners.com/threads/can-a-gravity-use-any-and-all-tesla-superchargers.12378/post-271726)

So is this different on my 2018 MS 100D? I had a charger mod done on the car by Tesla ( mobil service) and it came with the CCS > Tesla charge port adapter.

 

[borski]

So is this different on my 2018 MS 100D? I had a charger mod done on the car by Tesla ( mobil service) and it came with the CCS > Tesla charge port adapter.

I have absolutely no idea.

 

[jered]

So is this different on my 2018 MS 100D? I had a charger mod done on the car by Tesla ( mobil service) and it came with the CCS > Tesla charge port adapter.

I'm not sure what you're asking exactly -- any Tesla can charge at any Supercharger. Only 2020+ models (or older with a charge controller upgrade, like you had) can charge with a CCS adapter or non-Tesla NACS (like ChargePoint's newer units).

Lucid will be the other way around -- Gravity can charge at any CCS charger (with adapter) and any non-Tesla NACS, but only at newer Superchargers.

 

[hank-iv]

I'm not sure what you're asking exactly -- any Tesla can charge at any Supercharger. Only 2020+ models (or older with a charge controller upgrade, like you had) can charge with a CCS adapter or non-Tesla NACS (like ChargePoint's newer units).

Lucid will be the other way around -- Gravity can charge at any CCS charger (with adapter) and any non-Tesla NACS, but only at newer Superchargers.

My 2018 Model 3 charges fine with my home CCS from GE that I got for my 2013 Leaf. With an adaptor of course, and slow.

 

[jered]

My 2018 Model 3 charges fine with my home CCS from GE that I got for my 2013 Leaf. With an adaptor of course, and slow.

Home non-NACS AC chargers are J1772 connectors, which communicate with analog signalling in a way compatible with NACS-connector AC chargers. CCS builds on J1772 by reusing the communications (but not power) pins and adding the two big DC pins. Regardless, my comment above about Tesla/Lucid/CCS/NACS/etc applies to DC Fast Charging only.

 

[Elfin]

There is no such thing as home CCS, CCS is a DC charging standard (50kW+).
I think the Tesla connector uses J1772 signaling for AC charging. With a Tesla to J1772 adapter I can charge my parent's Bolt from my Tesla Wall Connector.
As @jered says the 2018 Model 3 does not support CCS or NACS. I had to pay to have it upgraded.
The important point is that NACS is not the same as the proprietary Tesla standard, it's CCS signaling using the Tesla physical connector.

2018 Model 3:
AC: J1772 with Tesla connector.
DC: Only Tesla proprietary.

~2020+ Model 3:
DC: Tesla proprietary, NACS, and CCS (with adapter)

Gravity
DC: NACS and CCS (with adapter)
Can't charge on older Superchargers because they do not support NACS.

 

[hank-iv]

Home non-NACS AC chargers are J1772 connectors, which communicate with analog signalling in a way compatible with NACS-connector AC chargers. CCS builds on J1772 by reusing the communications (but not power) pins and adding the two big DC pins. Regardless, my comment above about Tesla/Lucid/CCS/NACS/etc applies to DC Fast Charging only.

Ahhh, I was mixed up. Thanks

 

[ChestRockwell]

How can we tell if a supercharger is "new" enough....how can we research it prior to use?

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

How can we tell if a supercharger is "new" enough....how can we research it prior to use?

The Lucid phone app has accurate info regarding compatible/non-compatible Tesla chargers, per folks on the forum.

 

[Miami_Lucid_Man]

supercharge.info

Zoomable Tesla supercharger map with adjustable range indicator.

supercharge.info

 

[DeaneG]

How can we tell if a supercharger is "new" enough....how can we research it prior to use?

You can also use Tesla's phone app.

 

[bhramabull]

Soo just to confirm, the Gravity will not therefore charge on V2 Tesla Superchargers, correct?

 

[Miami_Lucid_Man]

Soo just to confirm, the Gravity will not therefore charge on V2 Tesla Superchargers, correct?

Correct. No Lucid will. Only V3 or what they call v3.5 which are V4 without the upgraded cabinets.

 

[johnse]

It's easy to identify older Tesla chargers from their post labeling. The posts are labeled 1A,1B,2A,2B, etc. None of these will be compatible with Non-Teslas. There are also 72kW Urban Superchargers that look nothing like the others. These are also not going to be compatible (AFAIK).

Posts labeled 1A,1B,1C,1D,2A... Are V3. Most of these are NACS compliant and can be used. But some are still reserved for Tesla only.

 

[jered]

Correct. No Lucid will. Only V3 or what they call v3.5 which are V4 without the upgraded cabinets.

Also very important: NACS partners (like Lucid) cannot charge on mixed V2+V3 sites (like the one closest to my house). These are V2 sites that have been upgraded to include additional V3 posts, and the decision seems to have been made to not allow NACS on the V3 posts.

The Lucid app (NOT in-vehicle nav) has accurate data, but I prefer using the Tesla app as it shows current status including occupancy and out-of-order posts. I usually let the in-car nav route me and then confirm site details in the Tesla or PlugShare app depending on site.

The in-vehicle nav data is really quite bad, even for non-Tesla sites. Power levels are generally just wrong. Sometimes this is because non-Tesla sites often have horrible mixes -- one 350kW and then 3 50kw for example -- and the power sharing generally means that these small sites nearly always have you splitting power on any high-kW charger with some dinky EV with awful charge characteristics. I've mostly stuck with Superchargers because the non-Tesla experience on the east coast is so bad.

 

[hmp10]

I've mostly stuck with Superchargers because the non-Tesla experience on the east coast is so bad.

For several years on the forum there's been a lot of head-scratching by west-coast posters at the chronic complaints from east-coast posters about CCS charging infrastructure, especially when it came to Electrify America. There really do seem to be significant differences in terms of numbers and reliability of CCS charge stations between the two coasts.

Despite abandoning the car brand after nine years of owning Teslas we, too, will use Tesla Superchargers as our default choice on road trips in the Gravity. It's just not worth the aggravation of playing hit-and-miss with CCS chargers. I even bit the bullet and bought a monthly subscription for their discounted charge fees, which really are significant.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

For several years on the forum there's been a lot of head-scratching by west-coast posters at the chronic complaints from east-coast posters about CCS charging infrastructure, especially when it came to Electrify America. There really do seem to be significant differences in terms of numbers and reliability of CCS charge stations between the two coasts.

Despite abandoning the car brand after nine years of owning Teslas we, too, will use Tesla Superchargers as our default choice on road trips in the Gravity. It's just not worth the aggravation of playing hit-and-miss with CCS chargers. I even bit the bullet and bought a monthly subscription for their discounted charge fees, which really are significant.

Aside from a paucity of locations, my East Coast CCS issues have always been lack of reliability and upkeep at the CCS sites and location. Invariably, multiple chargers are out of service and/or deliver far less than their stated kw. The apps say stalls are open when they’re not, etc. Also, the only times I’ve had negative interactions with fellow EV owners has been at the CCS sites, for whatever reason.

When an EA site, for example, IS working, it’s almost always way at the edge of a Walmart parking lot with nothing around. So you sit in your car for 20 minutes or whatever. Much nicer experience with Tesla as they’re almost always at a Sheetz or Wawa on East Coast so you plug in, go get food and use the restroom, and leave.

 

[jrreno]

I'm not sure what you're asking exactly -- any Tesla can charge at any Supercharger. Only 2020+ models (or older with a charge controller upgrade, like you had) can charge with a CCS adapter or non-Tesla NACS (like ChargePoint's newer units).

Lucid will be the other way around -- Gravity can charge at any CCS charger (with adapter) and any non-Tesla NACS, but only at newer Superchargers.

I was confused regarding the statement Borski quoted regarding nacs standards. I get it now.. Thanks for clarifying.