Mid sized Lucid

[joec]

I think they should announce their product roadmap for the next several years out. I would much rather base my current buying decisions on known information rather than speculation.

For instance, I am holding off on the Rivian SUV until I get more details on the Gravity. Knowing there is a Gravity coming. I don't need specific details about it. But it's nice to know they're working on something.

Same for this midsize car. My wife loves my Air but she wants something smaller. Knowing they have something coming a few years down the line, she can continue in her Model 3 until then. If they don't say anything, maybe I buy a Polestar or something next year and then kick myself as they announce a midsize right after I buy the Polestar.

Similar on the Roadster. If Lucid announced a sports car today, I might cancel my Roadster and get that stupid deposit back.

They may just do this on the 15th. I certainly expect more details about Gravity. Hoping they mention this mid-size car as well.

 

[Ampere]

While I realize that "me too-ism" in forums can be annoying, I have to concur with HariK:
"For now only 3 things are important. Meet the target specs, execute, execute. Not new models."
The primary responsibility of Lucid should be to perfect its current line-up so that no buyer experiences turtle mode or finds body panels that fail to line-up.
A startup company can't be everything to everybody.
Some of you may be drooling over the Sapphire, which won't sell enough, even at a quarter of a million dollars, to keep the lights on in Casa Grande. Also, for those pining for a "budget" model, remember that Lucid originally advertised the Pure as a $72K car ($79K list less the $7,500 tax credit.) Right now Lucid has a strong three model line-up, with enough variations in each platform, to satisfy any serious, well-heeled EV buyer.

 

[HariK]

Without new models, they run out of customers by the end of next year. Thus Gravity.

After that, they need to expand even further. Since it takes several years to develop a car, that means this car needs to be in design right now.

Not developing this car would literally kill the company.

I think the biggest market in the world is not for a smaller sedan to compete with Tesla Model 3 but people want a 5 passenger SUV the size of a Model Y, Ford Mach E, VW ID 4. I personally think a smaller size 5 passenger gravity with a range of 350miles FWD and DD with ACC and steering with base SS (not DDp and SSp) at MSRP below Air Pure base model smaller than Air Pure is where the high volume is. Not Gravity.

 

[joec]

I think the biggest market in the world is not for a smaller sedan to compete with Tesla Model 3 but people want a 5 passenger SUV the size of a Model Y, Ford Mach E, VW ID 4. I personally think a smaller size 5 passenger gravity with a range of 350miles FWD and DD with ACC and steering with base SS (not DDp and SSp) at MSRP below Air Pure base model smaller than Air Pure is where the high volume is. Not Gravity.

Agreed. But Gravity was an easier stretch from the Air than jumping to a different platform. I’m assuming Gravity will borrow a lot from what they learned with the Air. Thus, easier to get it to market in another year or so. Not to mention economies of scale, etc. Gravity will likely be equivalent or even more expensive than Air.

I assume whatever this midsize sedan is, there will be an equivalent Model Y type SUV right behind it. For the US market, that’s definitely key.

But Lucid seems to expect a large European presence. So a midsize sedan does make sense in that context.

This is one of the few areas where I think copying Tesla’s path makes good sense for Lucid. It’s a proven strategy.

 

[Mr_rhythm]

My guess is the larger platform they're using for Air and Gravity is to support the batteries and so they can win the range war which is the limiting factor for a lot of people. Then they work towards the smaller platform as battery tech improves, and by the time they get to market they can likely quote similar range but with the smaller vehicle. And the new platform would support both the midsize sedan and the 5 passenger crossover.

 

[HariK]

My guess is the larger platform they're using for Air and Gravity is to support the batteries and so they can win the range war which is the limiting factor for a lot of people. Then they work towards the smaller platform as battery tech improves, and by the time they get to market they can likely quote similar range but with the smaller vehicle. And the new platform would support both the midsize sedan and the 5 passenger crossover.

I agree that it is easier to build an SUV on the same platform but it is a small market as we all know. Why waste production capacity on that instead of say a Air Pure basic FWD, which is good enough on snow 350miles FWD smaller battery and DD with ACC and steering with base SS (not DDp and SSp) at MSRP below Air Pure base. Lower the price to make it more affordable. MSRP $70k. Same platform. Better yet SUV version smaller battery same price 350mile range.

 

[th14]

I agree that it is easier to build an SUV on the same platform but it is a small market as we all know. Why waste production capacity on that instead of say a Air Pure basic FWD, which is good enough on snow 350miles FWD smaller battery and DD with ACC and steering with base SS (not DDp and SSp) at MSRP below Air Pure base. Lower the price to make it more affordable. MSRP $70k. Same platform. Better yet SUV version smaller battery same price 350mile range.

Based on Lucid sales numbers, I think it's a large enough market. Cayenne sell perfectly well compared to Macan. Lucid is playing in a higher price category than Tesla now so I think it's fine to start at the premium price point. Exhaust those buyers before moving down. Tesla did it with the Model X also. Better margins also.

Finally, I think you underestimate the demand for large SUV's in Saudi Arabia. Gravity will displace a lot of a Range Rovers there. And that is a customer that has committed to buying 100,000 vehicles.

I agree with you that smaller is a bigger market. But only if it's smaller AND cheaper. I don't see Lucid being able to get the cheaper part down now. And they clearly can't scale. So better to keep selling lower volume, higher priced, higher margin product. Until they can actually scale production up.

 

[Mr_rhythm]

Gotta work on your punctuation, but I get what you're saying. The technology and parts still cost. Whether the vehicle is FWD or RWD is irrelevant in the electric world, and for the immediate term Lucid needs $$ which is why they have the premium features as part of the package. We'll all be beta testers this first round and once they get things tweaked out, shipping more cars won't represent the warranty overhead they're dealing with now.

 

[HariK]

Gotta work on your punctuation, but I get what you're saying. The technology and parts still cost. Whether the vehicle is FWD or RWD is irrelevant in the electric world, and for the immediate term Lucid needs $$ which is why they have the premium features as part of the package. We'll all be beta testers this first round and once they get things tweaked out, shipping more cars won't represent the warranty overhead they're dealing with now.

The beauty of FWD is it is cheaper and it can be driven on snow. It is not a performance vehicle. I drove FWD cars and minivan on snow for many years. My point was that before creating a new low cost smaller platform which is a high volume runner, it is faster to market medium volume. to build an SUV with a smaller battery than Pure which compensates for the weight increase of the SUV. Hey! It's early in the morning for my brain to get the punctuation right! One more thing. There are many non-techies for whom Lucid is too complicated to use.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I think the biggest market in the world is not for a smaller sedan to compete with Tesla Model 3 but people want a 5 passenger SUV the size of a Model Y, Ford Mach E, VW ID 4. I personally think a smaller size 5 passenger gravity with a range of 350miles FWD and DD with ACC and steering with base SS (not DDp and SSp) at MSRP below Air Pure base model smaller than Air Pure is where the high volume is. Not Gravity.

You mean R2S?

https://lucidowners.com/threads/traded-in-my-r1t-for-air-gt.2991/post-72667

 

[changinator]

But Lucid seems to expect a large European presence. So a midsize sedan does make sense in that context.

This is one of the few areas where I think copying Tesla’s path makes good sense for Lucid. It’s a proven strategy.

A midsized SUV makes more sense in all major markets, including Europe. Model Y is more popular than Model 3 in US, European, and Chinese markets.

Plus, as we progress into mid decade, world wide inflation means SUVs will become even more popular as most families will have to decide on just one do-it-all vehicle

And people are more willing to pay a bit more for an SUV vs a sedan

 

[HariK]

You mean R2S?

https://lucidowners.com/threads/traded-in-my-r1t-for-air-gt.2991/post-72667

Ugly and tiny. Not my cup of tea. I mean Ford Mach-E killer.

 

[Tesla2.0]

A midsized SUV makes more sense in all major markets, including Europe. Model Y is more popular than Model 3 in US, European, and Chinese markets.

Plus, as we progress into mid decade, world wide inflation means SUVs will become even more popular as most families will have to decide on just one do-it-all vehicle

And people are more willing to pay a bit more for an SUV vs a sedan

It’s all about chassis. Lucid has its roadmap. Space is luxury, Lucid will eventually get there. But first, they need to finish building out that AMP-1 factory first to have all capacity.

 

[HariK]

It’s all about chassis. Lucid has its roadmap. Space is luxury, Lucid will eventually get there. But first, they need to finish building out that AMP-1 factory first to have all capacity.

I cannot agree more. Just execute on the current products and meet the demand.

 

[changinator]

The beauty of FWD is it is cheaper and it can be driven on snow. It is not a performance vehicle. I drove FWD cars and minivan on snow for many years. My point was that before creating a new low cost smaller platform which is a high volume runner, it is faster to market medium volume. to build an SUV with a smaller battery than Pure which compensates for the weight increase of the SUV. Hey! It's early in the morning for my brain to get the punctuation right! One more thing. There are many non-techies for whom Lucid is too complicated to use.

This is a bad idea on multiple areas:

- Lucid Air already has 5 available trims. People are already complaining that is too many, and more trims complicate production. All other luxury vehicles have 2-3 trims with options.
- Markets always respond better to a new model vs a new trim of the same model.
- Single motor FWD doesn't make it cheaper than a single motor RWD.
- Undercutting the Air Pure base model with an even cheaper Air will piss off their Pure customers.
- Regardless if FWD is viable on snow, the market will always see AWD with more confidence in driving in snow.

 

[HariK]

This is a bad idea on multiple areas:

- Lucid Air already has 5 available trims. People are already complaining that is too many, and more trims complicate production. All other luxury vehicles have 2-3 trims with options.
- Markets always respond better to a new model vs a new trim of the same model.
- Single motor FWD doesn't make it cheaper than a single motor RWD.
- Undercutting the Air Pure base model with an even cheaper Air will piss off their Pure customers.
- Regardless if FWD is viable on snow, the market will always see AWD with more confidence in driving in snow.

I am in total agreement that new trims of Air are not a good idea. Yes. There are too many already. DE, DEP, AGT, GT, P and now Saphire. Way too many. My point is that if Lucid were to bring a higher volume vehicle to the market, it can be potentially done using the same platform but 5 passenger SUV with fewer bells and whistles. AWD gives a false sense of confidence in snow. Slowing down in FWD is just fine. If you are stuck in snow, RWD just spins the wheels. With FWD, we can spin the wheels, and then turn the steering to get out of the situation. I actually did that in a FWD a few times. Of course I know that FWD costs the same as RWD. FWD is cheaper than AWD. In fact, for the same price as Air Pure even with 10to 15% less range, I personally would buy a 5 passenger SUV version with more rear cargo room and happy dogs

 

[SDHacker]

The beauty of FWD is it is cheaper and it can be driven on snow. It is not a performance vehicle. I drove FWD cars and minivan on snow for many years. My point was that before creating a new low cost smaller platform which is a high volume runner, it is faster to market medium volume. to build an SUV with a smaller battery than Pure which compensates for the weight increase of the SUV. Hey! It's early in the morning for my brain to get the punctuation right! One more thing. There are many non-techies for whom Lucid is too complicated to use.

Fwd is not cheaper in an EV since the rwd has the motor mounted in the rear. The only reason fwd works better in snow in an ICE is the weight distribution is front biased. Proper winter tires are more important than front or rear drive in an EV.

I think Lucid is doing the right thing in waiting to introduce the higher volume midsize models until the expansion(s) of the factory is completed. They need to be able to run multiple lines with the larger paint shop and need the larger capacity to handle the hoped for demand.

 

[hmp10]

Would love for them to announce a sports car also. Something to rival the Roadster.

Which Roadster? The one Tesla took deposits on in 2017 and of which little has since been seen or heard?

 

[GEWC]

For now only 3 things are important. Meet the target specs, execute, execute. Not new models.

I completely disagree. There are different teams working on these issues. It is not as if they are pulling people off current production to design new models. You would rather they do nothing while the other gets up to speed? The company would fail rather dramatically if that was the case.

 

[GEWC]

Important is developing a midsize platform. establish a production line for the midsize platform. From there you build the sedan or SUV.

I agree. An SUV is really mainly for the US market. A mid size sedan would probably sell very well elsewhere in the world.