Lucid Touring Observation

[vav493]

I find Borski's screen shots (it says "1:47 AM today" on my computer) a little disappointing. I did a quick back of the envelope calculation. He got 309 miles for $51.00. If a run-of-the-mill Internal Combustion (ICE) car gets 30 miles per gallon that would be the equivalent of ten gallons of gas. So an ICE car costs $30 (more or less) to go 300 miles and we are paying $50? Am I missing a decimal point or something?

so… Lucid isn’t a “run-of-the-mill” vehicle? i think a more fair ICE equivalent would come in at about 15mpg-20mpg (and that doesn’t even account for actual driving lol)

for the 309 miles at $51.01… that’s like $0.56/kWh which is probably for L3 charging (not a requirement for charging an EV) and i’m sure many people can charge at home for less or cheaper on a L2 charger if they’re grocery shopping or whatever. i charge for like $0.15/kWh at home. so… that stacks up quick for comparison.

now, that would be 20.6 gallons of gas (assuming 15mpg) which comes out to $73.13 ($3.55 average price for premium gas in Austin, Texas) or $99.91 ($4.85 average price for premium in California). assuming 20 mpg, that would be 15.45 gallons of gas, which would be $54.85 in Austin or $74.93 in California. considering @borski is in California, that’s about $48 in savings on the unkindest comparison ($99.91-$51.01) or $24 in savings on the kindest comparison ($74.93-$51.01). at an average annual mileage of 12,000 and 300 miles per “fill up” - adds up quick… $960/year in savings on the low end or $1,920/year on the high end.

essentially, the easiest mathematical figure to probably compare would be $/mile so 15mpg is like $0.32/mile, 20mpg is $0.24/mile (both assuming California average price for premium of $4.85). for Lucid (or technically for EV), even looking at the L3 charging of $0.56/kWh (where 1 kWh gets about 3-3.5 “real world” miles, which technically to keep the comparison “clean” i should use EPA rated 5.0 miles/kWh or whatever so) that comes out to $0.16/mile using real world miles or $0.11/mile using EPA rated. beats ICE in either scenario.

unfortunately, for ICE, you can’t really change the price of gas yourself… with EV, you can choose your charger type (fast charging being most expensive) and also you may be able to get cheaper electricity if you charge at night, or if you have solar panels, or some other combination of perks/incentives/infrastructure options. point being, there’s wider flexibility for cost savings with EV comparisons, where as only thing you can wiggle for ICE is the mpg

so again, if you wanted to compare charging costs against a run of the mill ICE vehicle, you can go compare it against a run of the mill EV (like Tesla… jk jk) probably more like Nissan Leaf or similar

 

[Chrry]

so… Lucid isn’t a “run-of-the-mill” vehicle? i think a more fair ICE equivalent would come in at about 15mpg-20mpg (and that doesn’t even account for actual driving lol)

for the 309 miles at $51.01… that’s like $0.56/kWh which is probably for L3 charging (not a requirement for charging an EV) and i’m sure many people can charge at home for less or cheaper on a L2 charger if they’re grocery shopping or whatever. i charge for like $0.15/kWh at home. so… that stacks up quick for comparison.

now, that would be 20.6 gallons of gas (assuming 15mpg) which comes out to $73.13 ($3.55 average price for premium gas in Austin, Texas) or $99.91 ($4.85 average price for premium in California). assuming 20 mpg, that would be 15.45 gallons of gas, which would be $54.85 in Austin or $74.93 in California. considering @borski is in California, that’s about $48 in savings on the unkindest comparison ($99.91-$51.01) or $24 in savings on the kindest comparison ($74.93-$51.01). at an average annual mileage of 12,000 and 300 miles per “fill up” - adds up quick… $960/year in savings on the low end or $1,920/year on the high end.

essentially, the easiest mathematical figure to probably compare would be $/mile so 15mpg is like $0.32/mile, 20mpg is $0.24/mile (both assuming California average price for premium of $4.85). for Lucid (or technically for EV), even looking at the L3 charging of $0.56/kWh (where 1 kWh gets about 3-3.5 “real world” miles, which technically to keep the comparison “clean” i should use EPA rated 5.0 miles/kWh or whatever so) that comes out to $0.16/mile using real world miles or $0.11/mile using EPA rated. beats ICE in either scenario.

unfortunately, for ICE, you can’t really change the price of gas yourself… with EV, you can choose your charger type (fast charging being most expensive) and also you may be able to get cheaper electricity if you charge at night, or if you have solar panels, or some other combination of perks/incentives/infrastructure options. point being, there’s wider flexibility for cost savings with EV comparisons, where as only thing you can wiggle for ICE is the mpg

so again, if you wanted to compare charging costs against a run of the mill ICE vehicle, you can go compare it against a run of the mill EV (like Tesla… jk jk) probably more like Nissan Leaf or similar

Yeah I was gonna say… $30 for gas? I can’t even remember the last time I or anyone I know paid that little.

 

[vav493]

Yeah I was gonna say… $30 for gas? I can’t even remember the last time I or anyone I know paid that little.

Seriously!! With my last ICE, I felt like I was putting $75-$85 for gas every week/every other week I do NOT miss those days

 

[borski]

My Mazda 3 cost me $50 to fill up.

Also, this was an EA, in the middle of the day, and thus free. There is no reason I would have done that if it weren’t free. It was just convenient.

I would have charged at home for half the price. Or at the EVGo two blocks away that’s $.41 or so.

 

[gavram]

Has anyone seen a structured 70 mph test for the Touring? I've seen several for the GT but can't find one for the Touring anywhere.

 

[Science]

All good points when comparing fuel costs for Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) to Electric Vehicle (EV) costs. Yes, charging at home is way cheaper.

But data suggests that about a third of Americans live in apartments..not detached homes where they can charge. (I can supply the source for this data if anyone would like it.)

And while some charging at Electrify America is free, it won't always be free. As far as I know, that is a limited time incentive.

Don't get me wrong...I love EVs. Our Lucid is our third one and I won't buy another ICE. But the point is, $50 for 300 miles at a public charging station is no bargain.

 

[borski]

All good points when comparing fuel costs for Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) to Electric Vehicle (EV) costs. Yes, charging at home is way cheaper.

But data suggests that about a third of Americans live in apartments..not detached homes where they can charge. (I can supply the source for this data if anyone would like it.)

And while some charging at Electrify America is free, it won't always be free. As far as I know, that is a limited time incentive.

Don't get me wrong...I love EVs. Our Lucid is our third one and I won't buy another ICE. But the point is, $50 for 300 miles at a public charging station is no bargain.

Right, but you missed the second part of my point: EA is among the most expensive networks. You could always find an EVGo or Chargepoint or Volta for much cheaper, even if you lived in an apartment.

Stable Insights: EV Charging Pricing Trends

Explore high-quality data on national EV charging station pricing from Stable Auto.

stable.auto

Moreover, the delta from the cheapest state to the most expensive state is $0.35, which is kinda nuts.

Gas was always cheaper in NJ too.

Lastly, if you live in an apartment, there are ways to make those prices cheaper; EVGo has three membership options: Pay As You Go, EVgo Member, and EVgo Plus (prepaid plan for those who only plan to charge once a month). In California, Florida, and Texas, you’ll have added membership options, including EVgo Basic and EVgo PlusMax. In California, you pay per kWh and prices vary based on Time-Of-Use (TOU) rates. Everywhere else, you’ll be charged by the minute. Only the city of San Diego has the additional two plans mentioned above.

With the Pay As You Go plan: $0.99 session fee. If you want to reserve a charger, $3.00. The prices range from $0.32 – $0.39 per kWh in CA. Everywhere else the range is $0.29 – $0.35 per minute.
With the EVgo Basic plan, $0.99 per month and reservations are $3. There are no session fees. In San Diego, the Basic plan is $0.43 per kWh. In Florida, it is $0.32 per minute. In Texas, it is $0.28 per minute.
With the EVgo Member plan, you’ll be charged a prepaid charging credit of $4.99. Reservations are $3. Prices range from $0.29 – $0.35 per kWh in California. The prices everywhere else range from $0.25 – $0.31 per minute.
With the EVgo Plus plan, your per minute/kWh rate will be discounted and you won’t be charged a session fee. The membership is $6.99 per month. You won’t be charged for reservations. Prices in California range from $0.25 – $0.30 per kWh. Prices everywhere else range from $0.22 – $0.28 per minute.
With the EVgo PlusMax plan, there are no session or reservation fees. The per minute/kWh rate will be discounted to a lower price than the Plus plan. The membership fee is higher at $12.99 per month. In San Diego, it costs $0.23 per kWh. In Florida, you’ll pay $0.26 per minute. In Texas, it is $0.22 per minute.

Electrify America has two pricing plans: Guest & Pass Members and Pass+ Members. Pass+ members pay a $4 monthly fee for discounted charging rates. You are charged per kilowatt-hour or minute. DC fast charging pricing is based on fast charger location, your plan, and at per-minute locations, by the maximum power level your EV can accept. Level 2 charging costs $0.03 per minute or the same as DC fast chargers per kWh locations. For per-minute locations, for Guest & Pass members 1-90 kW is $0.16 per minute and 1-350kW is $0.32 per minute. For Pass+ members, 1-90 kW is $0.12 per minute and 1-350 kW is $0.24 per minute. For per-kWh locations of Guest & Pass members the cost is $0.43 per kilowatt-hour, while Pass+ members are charged $0.31 per kWh.

It is very possible to make EV charging very affordable on any of the public networks; EA is the most expensive, by far. The reason nobody has done this yet is because it doesn't matter yet; nearly everyone with an EV still has some form of free charging. But that won't be true forever.

 

[joec]

Has anyone seen a structured 70 mph test for the Touring? I've seen several for the GT but can't find one for the Touring anywhere.

Not an independent one, no. I believe in that recent video where Lucid drove from headquarters down to San Diego, a Pure and Touring joined them part way through that trip. That was the one where the Pure achieved the 5.0 efficiency. The Touring got 4.8 and traveled 400.5 miles. And the GT got 4.5 and traveled 504 miles.

I believe they may have stuck to the speed limit for that one, though. Not a steady 70 mph.

 

[Science]

Right, but you missed the second part of my point: EA is among the most expensive networks. You could always find an EVGo or Chargepoint or Volta for much cheaper, even if you lived in an apartment.

Stable Insights: EV Charging Pricing Trends

Explore high-quality data on national EV charging station pricing from Stable Auto.

stable.auto

Moreover, the delta from the cheapest state to the most expensive state is $0.35, which is kinda nuts.

Gas was always cheaper in NJ too.

Lastly, if you live in an apartment, there are ways to make those prices cheaper; EVGo has three membership options: Pay As You Go, EVgo Member, and EVgo Plus (prepaid plan for those who only plan to charge once a month). In California, Florida, and Texas, you’ll have added membership options, including EVgo Basic and EVgo PlusMax. In California, you pay per kWh and prices vary based on Time-Of-Use (TOU) rates. Everywhere else, you’ll be charged by the minute. Only the city of San Diego has the additional two plans mentioned above.

With the Pay As You Go plan: $0.99 session fee. If you want to reserve a charger, $3.00. The prices range from $0.32 – $0.39 per kWh in CA. Everywhere else the range is $0.29 – $0.35 per minute.
With the EVgo Basic plan, $0.99 per month and reservations are $3. There are no session fees. In San Diego, the Basic plan is $0.43 per kWh. In Florida, it is $0.32 per minute. In Texas, it is $0.28 per minute.
With the EVgo Member plan, you’ll be charged a prepaid charging credit of $4.99. Reservations are $3. Prices range from $0.29 – $0.35 per kWh in California. The prices everywhere else range from $0.25 – $0.31 per minute.
With the EVgo Plus plan, your per minute/kWh rate will be discounted and you won’t be charged a session fee. The membership is $6.99 per month. You won’t be charged for reservations. Prices in California range from $0.25 – $0.30 per kWh. Prices everywhere else range from $0.22 – $0.28 per minute.
With the EVgo PlusMax plan, there are no session or reservation fees. The per minute/kWh rate will be discounted to a lower price than the Plus plan. The membership fee is higher at $12.99 per month. In San Diego, it costs $0.23 per kWh. In Florida, you’ll pay $0.26 per minute. In Texas, it is $0.22 per minute.

Electrify America has two pricing plans: Guest & Pass Members and Pass+ Members. Pass+ members pay a $4 monthly fee for discounted charging rates. You are charged per kilowatt-hour or minute. DC fast charging pricing is based on fast charger location, your plan, and at per-minute locations, by the maximum power level your EV can accept. Level 2 charging costs $0.03 per minute or the same as DC fast chargers per kWh locations. For per-minute locations, for Guest & Pass members 1-90 kW is $0.16 per minute and 1-350kW is $0.32 per minute. For Pass+ members, 1-90 kW is $0.12 per minute and 1-350 kW is $0.24 per minute. For per-kWh locations of Guest & Pass members the cost is $0.43 per kilowatt-hour, while Pass+ members are charged $0.31 per kWh.

It is very possible to make EV charging very affordable on any of the public networks; EA is the most expensive, by far. The reason nobody has done this yet is because it doesn't matter yet; nearly everyone with an EV still has some form of free charging. But that won't be true forever.

Thanks for all the data. Sounds like it will take a while for EV drivers to sort this all out. For example, while your Electrify America is free, few, if any will sign up for plan that is not pay-as-you-go. Of course, they won't need to figure it out if they can always find a free Electrify America stall.

 

[borski]

Thanks for all the data. Sounds like it will take a while for EV drivers to sort this all out. For example, while your Electrify America is free, few, if any will sign up for plan that is not pay-as-you-go. Of course, they won't need to figure it out if they can always find a free Electrify America stall.

Exactly. I totally agree with all that. But as a result, judging charging costs today is not a valid assessment of charging costs as people aren't actually paying those costs. Once they do, I suspect they'll find more efficient places to do it.