Lucid out of the list for Supercharge spring 2024 release

[Tâm]

The real question is why haven't Tesla installed a single V4 anywhere? Is it because they are full of crap and can't actually deliver the power?

It's an SAE J3400, so anyone can definitely do it. However, I think it is more about money than competency. It costs more to do 1000V, while they can invest that extra money in more 400V stalls in the form of V4 (fake V4).

 

[hydbob]

It's an SAE J3400, so anyone can definitely do it. However, I think it is more about money than competency. It costs more to do 1000V, while they can invest that extra money in more 400V stalls in the form of V4 (fake V4).

Agreed, but just to install 1 as a proof of concept is not hard.

 

[Haggy]

100%. I for one won't be buying a Gravity if it first comes with CCS to then change to NACS later, I'll wait for NACS. I think I read somewhere it will come with NACS but if shopping for a new vehicle now I wouldn't be buying one even when promised an adapter. No one knows the true speed these adapters can deliver so if they're limited to 150Kw and your car is capable of charging above that then buying a CCS car with a NACS adapter isn't helpful to you for years to come.

If you wait for NACS, then you might be stuck using adapters for a long time. Even without an adapter, Tesla's current Superchargers won't charge a Lucid at above 50kW. Plus, the cables won't reach. Existing CCS chargers are extremely unlikely to have NACS cables. So if you get a Lucid with NACS, unless a lot of things change quickly, you will need an adapter.

On the other hand, if you get one with CCS, any V4 Supercharger will have a Magic Dock anyway, so you won't need an adapter. The adapters are passive and should not affect charging speed. You would still be able to use other third party chargers with CCS, and as they add NACS, they aren't going to be taking away CCS. So you are unlikely to need an adapter with a CCS port, but very likely to need one with NACS port. The exception would be if you don't mind using a Tesla Supercharger at 50kW, in which case it will take over an hour to add 200 miles, as opposed to 12 minutes from empty with CCS at 350kW. And if you need to use a V3 Supercharger, you'd need an adapter but that's the least of the problems. The cables are too short and they are too slow, and if you want to save a few seconds by not needing an adapter, you won't save much. The infrastructure bill requires any future chargers to have CCS anyway, so for the foreseeable future, any new compatible high speed chargers won't need adapters for CCS cars.

I was in a similar position when I got my Lucid. Tesla had opened things up, one manufacturer after another had agreed to switch over, and Lucid hadn't. At first I thought that I'd wait, but after looking into it, I decided that I was better off not waiting. I'll get the adapter when it comes out. But I doubt that I'll need it much if ever. If I had a NACS ports, there would have been a slight advantage for home charging since it would have been the same as on my Tesla, but the Lucid came with charging equipment anyway so that wasn't a big deal. For destination charging, with a Tesla I had to use an adapter about half the time anyway. The same might be true with a Lucid.

 

[Haggy]

It's an SAE J3400, so anyone can definitely do it. However, I think it is more about money than competency. It costs more to do 1000V, while they can invest that extra money in more 400V stalls in the form of V4 (fake V4).

Not necessarily. They have already designed 400V installations and probably have plenty of equipment for it. Rather than going ahead with existing 400V projects as planned (and possibly with active permits), changing to a V4 unit wouldn't be a big deal. Chances are that existing plans would still work, they can be set for 400V, and can be upgraded in the future. It won't help Lucid owners much, but will work for manufacturers of other cars that use lower voltage.

I doubt that Tesla sees Lucid as a priority, but the Cybertruck and future products will be able to take advantage of 800V architecture. That means that currently, a Cybertruck can charge faster in theory at a CCS charger with an adapter than at a Tesla Supercharger. Tesla wants to be able to claim to have the best network, and that would have to include the best capability. So it's a question of when, not if. But since I have no clue what the answer is, I'm not holding my breath. Maybe they will have an adequate network by the time my free EA runs out. In the meantime, I used a CCS charger just to see how it works with the car, but on road trips I'm more likely to stick with destination charging at hotels, since I have plenty of range.

 

[Sandvinsd]

I really don’t care when Tesla adds Lucid to the supercharger list. I just want other brands added. As more cars from other brands use the SC stations, the more EA plugs are freed up for me to use. I have no desire to use a SC station, except for anything other than a dire emergency. They are slow and have the most expensive electricity. Let everyone else use them thinking that they are better.

 

[borski]

Rather than going ahead with existing 400V projects as planned (and possibly with active permits), changing to a V4 unit wouldn't be a big deal. Chances are that existing plans would still work, they can be set for 400V, and can be upgraded in the future.

Okay, and when they actually build and deploy *any* working 1000V units I’ll agree with you. Until then, it’s vaporware as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Haggy]

I really don’t care when Tesla adds Lucid to the supercharger list. I just want other brands added. As more cars from other brands use the SC stations, the more EA plugs are freed up for me to use. I have no desire to use a SC station, except for anything other than a dire emergency. They are slow and have the most expensive electricity. Let everyone else use them thinking that they are better.

I agree, except to the extent that potential buyers might walk away from Lucid if they aren't on that list. Considering that there are fewer showrooms, I could imagine a hypothetical situation where somebody is looking at one car, mentions that he's considering a Lucid, and being told that Lucids are not yet on that list so it might be a problem.

For practical purposes, it's not likely to help me much having Lucid on the list, except if I go somewhere that's near a Supercharger, and I want to be able to have the option as a safety measure. In the earlier days of Superchargers, I was in a similar situation. It's not that I wanted to use J1772, but I went to a destination that wasn't near a Supercharger, and the closest one on the way gave me enough charge to get there with enough left for the round trip back to it. Knowing that even a few miles of local driving or vampire loss could have stranded me, it was important to know about those chargers, Tesla destination chargers, etc.

It more of an academic concern with a Lucid since there's so much more range.

 

[Haggy]

Okay, and when they actually build and deploy *any* working 1000V units I’ll agree with you. Until then, it’s vaporware as far as I’m concerned.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it vaporware since they have V4 chargers and undoubtedly tested them at higher voltages. What gets me is not only the lack of any deployed, but that the closest V3 with a magic dock is in Santa Cruz, even though our area has what's probably the biggest population of Teslas in the world. They are barely testing the waters.

 

[borski]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it vaporware since they have V4 chargers and undoubtedly tested them at higher voltages. What gets me is not only the lack of any deployed, but that the closest V3 with a magic dock is in Santa Cruz, even though our area has what's probably the biggest population of Teslas in the world. They are barely testing the waters.

Sure. I’m not saying it’s never gonna happen. I’m saying I’m not holding my breath, just like with the roadster. I will continue to focus on using useful and well-reviewed/well-distributed CCS chargers while everyone else deals with the inevitable failures and bugs of NACS for non-Tesla vehicles.

One day, it’ll be useful, maybe.

And, to be clear: I hope it is. More chargers is great.

 

[Tâm]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it vaporware since they have V4 chargers and undoubtedly tested them at higher voltages. What gets me is not only the lack of any deployed, but that the closest V3 with a magic dock is in Santa Cruz, even though our area has what's probably the biggest population of Teslas in the world. They are barely testing the waters.

It's "vaporware" in the same sense as the new Roadster, which was announced in 2017. Some people made a $250,000 deposit to get it soon. The Roadster is real in the form of a prototype. People have taken test rides, and it does run. But after seven years, those depositors are still waiting for the production.

It could be the same for V4. The V4 stalls work fine with longer cables and good rated specs, 1000VDC, 615A:

but they are hooked up to 400V cabinets.

It's unknown when Tesla will deploy 1000V cabinets.

 

[Viking]

It's "vaporware" in the same sense as the new Roadster, which was announced in 2017. Some people made a $250,000 deposit to get it soon. The Roadster is real in the form of a prototype. People have taken test rides, and it does run. But after seven years, those depositors are still waiting for the production.

Vaporware like the Tesla FSD I bought in 2016 based on Elon's promise of coast-to-coast FSD by the end of 2017? That kind of vaporware?

 

[borski]

Vaporware like the Tesla FSD I bought in 2016 based on Elon's promise of coast-to-coast FSD by the end of 2017? That kind of vaporware?

Yes. Like that.

 

[Sandvinsd]

I agree, except to the extent that potential buyers might walk away from Lucid if they aren't on that list. Considering that there are fewer showrooms, I could imagine a hypothetical situation where somebody is looking at one car, mentions that he's considering a Lucid, and being told that Lucids are not yet on that list so it might be a problem.

It will turn off buyers once they get a 50kW charging speed at a supercharger station. EA wil be the way to go once veryone else is tying up the SC stations. Tesla fanboys will be having a cow when a non-Tesla is taking two or more spaces due to cable limitations.

 

[Haggy]

Vaporware like the Tesla FSD I bought in 2016 based on Elon's promise of coast-to-coast FSD by the end of 2017? That kind of vaporware?

Supposedly, the upcoming release will help the current owner of the Tesla with that feature that I paid for. So it might no longer be vaporware. The last time I used it, it worked about as well as I expected it to. But that expectation was in 2018.

As for Tesla Superchargers vs EA, I had very few times when a Supercharger didn't work for me. A decade ago, there were times when one gave a slow charge rate for no apparent reason, and another worked better. But that was back when virtually all chargers were unused. With EA, I've never had a charger that didn't work as expected. The caveat is that I went to stations knowing that a certain number were available and a certain number were unavailable or down. There was almost always something that showed up as not working. So on paper, that's a high percentage of non-working chargers but it had no real life effects on me so far.

If I had to use a Tesla Supercharger with a Lucid, it would mean paying for it, and if I had to pay, I'd just as easily be able to use any CCS charger, so EA reliability would be less of an issue. I haven't looked into EA vs Tesla rates, but every time I've used EA, I've seen at least one Tesla charging there. Given the ubiquity of Tesla chargers, I can't imagine that EA was more expensive in that area, or there was enough difference that it didn't come down to convenience.

I don't doubt that there are real world problems with EA that affect people in a big way. But with enough range that I won't need a charge to continue a leg of a trip, I would think that lots of Lucid owners will get by just fine with hotel charging.

 

[Tâm]

Supposedly, the upcoming release will help the current owner of the Tesla with that feature that I paid for. So it might no longer be vaporware. The last time I used it, it worked about as well as I expected it to. But that expectation was in 2018.

Your expectations of FSD is not the same as Tesla's.

Tesla described that you can summon from across the country and it will come to you with no drivers and it would charge itself with self-hooking charging cable.

It would pick up rides while you are not driving to make money for you.

People read that summon and Auto Park is getting much better so they might pay $12,000 but not realizing that those features don't yet work with newer Teslas whose USS, Ultrasonic Sensors, have been discontinued.

 

[Tâm]

But with enough range that I won't need a charge to continue a leg of a trip, I would think that lots of Lucid owners will get by just fine with hotel charging.

Not enough hotel chargers is still problematic. Hotels need to guarantee that a charger is reserved for me (for a fee of course).

 

[Haggy]

Your expectations of FSD is not the same as Tesla's.

Tesla described that you can summon from across the country and it will come to you with no drivers and it would charge itself with self-hooking charging cable.

It would pick up rides while you are not driving to make money for you.

People read that summon and Auto Park is getting much better so they might pay $12,000 but not realizing that those features don't yet work with newer Teslas whose USS, Ultrasonic Sensors, have been discontinued.

True, but I never trusted Tesla on that to begin with. They were late with Autopilot...sort of. When it was first announced, I was surprised that with the numerous interviews that Musk did, I couldn't find a single one where he was asked about a timeline. That was long before he had a reputation for missing dates. It took about a year longer than I expected to get autosteer, and then Autopilot was still beta quality.

With FSD, I expected the same thing. I figured that it would be at least a year late, that it would function, that drivers would need to take over regularly, and it would take a few more years before it became reliable. The cost was $3000 over the cost of Autopilot, or $4000 if I got it later (after the initial car sale) and I figured that even if I was wrong and Musk was off by 2-3 years, I'd be better off paying for it rather than expecting a 33% return on investments. Tesla made my worst case scenario look optimistic in retrospect, but I never expected Tesla to deliver what they originally promised any time close to when they announced it.

I never got Summon to work because the only times I tried it was to get my car out of my garage. The original summon can handle that and could almost from the beginning. The last I checked, which was before I got a Lucid, it couldn't handle the slope of my driveway, which isn't sloped enough that it would catch anybody's attention as being atypical. Musk promised that my 2014 would be able to meet me at the curb in front of my house, and to date no Tesla can do that.

On the other hand, Enhanced Autopilot worked very well for me, effectively giving me FSD on freeways. The only major point of dissatisfaction is that it disengaged if I took over using the steering wheel and didn't reengage on its own. Lucid got that part right, and it's particularly bad with Tesla, given the requirement to hold the wheel with more force than Lucid requires.