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Lucid Air Dream Edition Deliveries

PCP1701

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Anyone know anything concrete? Anyone else getting tired of what sounds like BS? Tesla, Rivian, Lucid. All delayed. Repeatedly. Delay is one thing, but then we get these intermittent teases of calls that say nothing, assignments of "guides" that do nothing, and emails that hint at something but say nothing. Meanwhile, my husband's Mach-e was right on time. My Taycan 4S GT was delayed due to chips, but primary build was completed on time, and I had access to a website that showed me every milestone completed along the way and ultimately projected an arrival from Germany date and delivery to the dealer that was spot on. This is getting tedious.
 

hmp10

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Unfortunately, the Mach-E has now gone down the rabbit hole with its deliveries, too. A friend who ordered one this spring was told it would be delivered by the start of September. He has now been told it will be the end of October at the earliest. (His car has reportedly been built but is sitting on a lot in Mexico waiting for chips.)

I share your frustration, as I've had a Dream Edition on reservation since September 2018 and a Rivian R1S on reservation since March 2019, both delayed 1-2 years beyond their initial promised deliveries.

As Tesla has proven with the delays of every new model it has introduced, getting an all-new car into production is devilishly difficult and fraught with inevitable delays in the most normal of times. Throw Covid and widespread supply chain disruptions into the mix, and you have the mess in which we're all currently entangled.

It's getting almost as hard to get a new ICE vehicle out the door these days, hence the soaring used car prices. (We recently traded a 2015 Tesla at $9,000 more than the trade-in quote we were given almost a year ago, and we just sold a 2016 Subaru WRX to Carvana for over $3,000 more than was quoted to us two months ago.) And just this week GM shut down production at most of its U.S. plants due to parts shortages.
 

Lucken

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A friend of mine was told his Toyota Avalon Limited will have an additional wait time of 4 months after having already waited a month.
 

PCP1701

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Lucien and hmp10:

There’s a huge difference between what’s going on with Lucid, Rivian, and Tesla and what you’re both referring to.
In the case of Ford Mach-E and my Taycan GT, the companies said they knew how to make the product, when they would make the product, and then made the product. When there were chips lacking, they said so and then took care of business about finalizing the production and then delivering the product.

By contrast, Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid obviously spewed BS regarding being able to produce what they were promising and have been delaying and re-delaying while they learn as they go, all the while with no transparency and intermittent teases designed to keep customers on the hook. Pretty disrespectful really and it really provides a quandry for someone with open eyes who has a reservation for the Air Dream, R1S, and Cybertruck, which I do. ‘This is really hard” gets tired after a while.
 
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hmp10

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There’s a huge difference between what’s going on with Lucid, Rivian, and Tesla and what you’re both referring to.
Yes, and that huge difference is between creating and staffing an organization, engineering a new vehicle, and bringing a manufacturing facility on line, all of which the startups have had to do.

Legacy manufacturers that have brought EVs to the market by putting electric powertrains into an ICE chassis have done so fairly quickly. However, when the legacy manufacturers have tackled an EV as a ground-up design and build exercise, they have moved no more quickly than the startups. The Mercedes EQS, which is mostly a ground-up design, has already been significantly delayed after showcasing their concept vehicle several years ago. It has even been moved from their list of available cars and relegated back to the "Future & Concept Vehicles" page on their website. Compare that with the introduction of the MB EQC, an adapted ICE chassis that hit the market back in 2019. After its odd i3 bit the dust, BMW is still wandering in the wilderness, despite having teased all-new EVs for more than two years. The Nissan Arriya, from a company which has been building the Leaf for over 10 years, was supposed to debut this summer but has been moved into next year.

You're choosing to cast the startups' efforts in the worst possible light while glossing over similar delays from the legacy manufacturers who have used very similar marketing teases.
 

hmp10

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We are now past Labor Day and the Lucid website still has not been updated with the new options for the Dream Edition. Also, as far as I can tell from posts elsewhere on the internet, no Dream Edition reservation holder has yet been asked to configure a final order.

This should pretty much end speculation about any September deliveries. We now have to keep our fingers crossed for the 4th quarter.
 

Lucken

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I was recently at Lucid to finally see the car in person at the NYC location.
* Yes, it's a beautiful vehicle, much nicer in person than the pictures would suggest. The word 'stunning' comes to mind.
* The silver (coincidently the color I ordered) was absolutely gorgeous.
* Getting into the car, despite my 5'7" height, required me to be aware of my head position getting into the car so as not to hit it on the rail. I'm sure I'll adjust to this over time...or not.
* The interior was a mixed picture. I found it odd that the center console cover was so hard to move, but I was assured this would not occur in a production vehicle.
* The driver's front door needed to be opened with a more forceful pull on the interior door opener. Again, I was assured this would not occur in production. The rear doors were fine.
* The door self-closures were a nice touch and, according to sales, would be a feature in all versions of the Lucid.
* Some of the displays, such as navigation, were not operational due to incomplete software.
* The rear display panel above the rear vents was not working.
* The rear seating is absurdly spacious. Considering the length of the car, it's truly amazing to see how the design allowed for such interior spaciousness.
* I see what some of the discussion was about relating to a high foot position. As most are aware, the smaller battery will allow for a lower, more comfortable, stance. That was the car I reserved.
* They are still 'hoping' to get a few cars out before the end of the year. My particular iteration, the Pure, is scheduled for the 3rd quarter of 2022. I'll believe that when I see it. My bet is mid-2023.

All in all I was impressed, but with reservations. It's more than a bit disconcerting to see a vehicle at this late stage, relative to the release, with hampered door openings, interior bits still not finished and software that still has not been nailed down. I'm hoping we'll all be pleasantly surprised and delays will soon come to an end.
 

hmp10

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Excellent review.

I had the same problem with the front console lid in the car in Miami. I'm also 5'7" (on a warm day) and found it difficult to enter and exit the car without some neck gymnastics due to the intrusive roof rails.

Unfortunately, we early reservation holders are not going to get the power-operated doors that are on the showroom cars. That will come only after the start of production. Unlike the showroom cars, I'm told the production car doors will open a full 90 degrees. While this will make entry and exit easier, it's going to make the door handles awfully hard to reach when trying to pull them closed from inside, especially with the intrusive roof rails.

I'm a bit concerned about the "hoping" to get a few cars out before year end. But this squares with my growing suspicion that there is still a lot of work to be done on the car. I was particularly surprised that the car Jonny Lieberman drove for the "Motor Trend" test still did not have the final front suspension hardware and tuning.

I laud your patience in waiting for the Pure (a car my brother is considering as a replacement for his Tesla Model 3). With my 3-year wait still dragging on, I'm starting to research which razor blades make for the cleanest wrist slitting.
 

Lucken

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Excellent review.

I had the same problem with the front console lid in the car in Miami. I'm also 5'7" (on a warm day) and found it difficult to enter and exit the car without some neck gymnastics due to the intrusive roof rails.

Unfortunately, we early reservation holders are not going to get the power-operated doors that are on the showroom cars. That will come only after the start of production. Unlike the showroom cars, I'm told the production car doors will open a full 90 degrees. While this will make entry and exit easier, it's going to make the door handles awfully hard to reach when trying to pull them closed from inside, especially with the intrusive roof rails.

I'm a bit concerned about the "hoping" to get a few cars out before year end. But this squares with my growing suspicion that there is still a lot of work to be done on the car. I was particularly surprised that the car Jonny Lieberman drove for the "Motor Trend" test still did not have the final front suspension hardware and tuning.

I laud your patience in waiting for the Pure (a car my brother is considering as a replacement for his Tesla Model 3). With my 3-year wait still dragging on, I'm starting to research which razor blades make for the cleanest wrist slitting.
Your last line made me laugh. Over lunch, my son suggested I go for the Dream edition to move my date up. I have to admit the idea is tempting, but I'll wait.

It is odd that we both had the same issue with the console lid. Let me know the brand of razor blades you settle on, I just might need them too.
 

hmp10

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You might be able to get a Grand Touring edition not too long after the Dream deliveries are completed. If maximum range and horsepower are not issues for you, my sales rep told me they are going to do a small-battery-pack version of the Grand Touring before long, which will give you the deeper rear footwells but still keep the full sensor suite for Level 3 ADAS. Of course, by the time that comes out, your Pure may be coming down the assembly line.

The Plaid is our first car with a full glass roof. It has not bothered me at all in the first two weeks with the car, as both heat and direct sun seemed reasonably tamed. However, today I sat in the car watching a video while my partner ran an errand. It was 90 degrees with bright sunshine. With no air moving over the roof, the interior of the car began to get uncomfortably warm around my head, even with the A/C running full bore. It's left me worrying again about that glass canopy on the upper-tier Airs. On the other hand, those massive roof rails and the car's high waistline might induce a bit of claustrophobia with a metal roof. At some point, Tesla will probably release a mesh sunscreen as they have for their other glass roofs. But without the four-sided framing of the Tesla glass roof, I don't know that Lucid will be able to do the same.

As for the razor blades, I've just got to stay out of the paint aisle at Ace Hardware until the car gets delivered.
 

Lucken

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Horsepower is definitely not an issue, as the single motor version will be more than adequate for me. Missing the Level 3 ADAS is also not an issue, as I'm someone that enjoys the driving experience rather than handing that chore over to the computer. I've never understood those that obsess over driving/handling dynamics and then look for the car to take over. Even the limited self-driving feature that existed in my 2017 MS was something I almost never used for the same reason. It was more of a parlor trick I'd show those that had never seen it before in a Tesla. In fact, to be perfectly honest, I was for more on edge when using Tesla's 'autopilot' than driving without it. It was probably its tendency to occasionally want to drive into retaining barriers that created my apprehension. ;)

The glass roof may be the only thing I 'might' miss, although I do worry about certain sun angles while driving into the sun. I had the glass canopy roof on my MS and actually enjoyed it, but it wasn't quite the expanse of glass that exists on the Lucid. Granted I live in NY, but even here we can get extremely hot weather. Rarely did I find the Tesla's glass roof contributed to any significant discomfort. OTOH the Lucid's metal roof will have a light colored headliner, so that should help, at least somewhat, with any potential claustrophobia. I've never felt any issue with having other car's sunroof closed and the headliner cover closed over it. This would be as close to the non-glass metal roof as I've experienced.

With that said, you do make a valid point for the fact that the rails are atypically massive and the car's high belt line do make for a somewhat different experience. Of course wouldn't it be nice if we actually had that version to sit in, but we don't.

Depending upon how the actual release dates evolve, I could possibly be talked into the Air Touring version, but we'll see. So much is up in the 'Air' and, unfortunately at this late date, it shouldn't be.
 

hmp10

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As I'm just turning 70 my perspective on ADAS is shifting. I love driving and, like you, I find Autopilot more annoying than helpful. I have had cruise control on cars since the 1980's, and I used it so seldom that I had to think about how to activate it on those few occasions I wanted to use it.

However, a few friends are already finding night driving more difficult, and I saw quite a few of the generation ahead of me lose their driving independence altogether (whether they recognized it or not). One of my hopes is that I can continue to drive safely for quite a few years, but when the time comes that I can't, I'm hoping fully autonomous driving will have arrived to keep me mobile without depending on others

While I don't wade into the furious debates over whether Tesla's approach or approaches of others such as Lucid, Waymo, Super Cruise, et al. are the way of the future, I'm actually glad that different avenues are being explored with such competitive energy.
 

Lucken

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It’s interesting that you mention seldom using cruise control. My driving behavior is exactly the same. In fact the day we drove in to see the Lucid, the roads were empty and my wife asked why I wasn’t using cruise control. I asked her when did she ever see me using it? Yet when she drives she uses it frequently. Like you I’d have to think about how to use it, and I’m fairly technical. That‘s complicated by the fact that I’ll frequently drive both her car and mine.

As a member of the senior community like you, your point about retaining driving independence is a valid one. Fortunately I’m still doing fine driving at night, but will that still be the case when the Pure arrives?

It also brings up an interesting point about the Lucid that I haven’t seen addressed. Will they follow Tesla’s approach with all cars having the necessary hardware for self driving, with only the requirement for purchase of the option, at any point, and its subsequent activation?
 

hmp10

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It also brings up an interesting point about the Lucid that I haven’t seen addressed. Will they follow Tesla’s approach with all cars having the necessary hardware for self driving, with only the requirement for purchase of the option, at any point, and its subsequent activation?
Right now the Lucid website is showing only the Dream and the Grand Touring as capable of Level 3 ADAS once the software is available. It's not clear whether that is because it will be an extra-cost option on the Touring and the Pure or because the cars will lack some of the hardware.

The optical cameras Tesla uses cost just a few dollars. I have read that, for simplification of the assembly line, it's cheaper for Tesla just to put them in all the cars whether they will be used or not. I could see Lucid taking the same approach. However, the lidar unit is more expensive, so the balance there may shift toward putting it only on the cars that will have Level 3 ADAS. But I'm just guessing.
 

Adnillien

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* The door self-closures were a nice touch and, according to sales, would be a feature in all versions of the Lucid.
Was this power close feature powered self-closing from fully open or just soft-close where you had to pull the door mostly closed and the power would fully close it. The car in Scottsdale had the soft close feature and I was told that all Lucid versions would have that feature.
 

hmp10

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That's interesting. The doors on the display cars in Miami and West Palm Beach both had full power operation that closes the doors from a full open. I was told the feature would not be available on early production cars, which would have only the soft-close feature until later in the production run.

It would seem that the later display cars now have the full power feature eliminated. Lucid told me the reason the display cars I saw had the feature is that the opening and closing mechanism is ready for production. The hang-up was with the sensors that keep the doors from hitting nearby objects. Since that was not an issue in the showrooms (I guess hitting customers doesn't count), the display cars could have full power operation.
 

Adnillien

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The associates in Scottsdale were not aware that fully closing doors were ever made. When I asked about power closing doors, they promptly demonstrated the soft-close feature. When I pressed them about fully closing as hmp10 has seen in Florida, I was told that none of the Lucid cars have that. I am fairly sure that the Scottsdale associates were trying their best to give me accurate information. Some of the later changes are not known amog newer Lucid employees.

I would think that even in a showroom there would need to be sensor that detected when the door was hitting a person or object when it was closing. The Florida cars must at least have that. I understand the concern about opening the door into an object but why not just limit how far it opens. It would be a nice feature, especially for closing.
 

hmp10

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On one of our trips to the Miami showroom after another production delay was announced, Zak Edson, the head of Lucid Retail Operations, was on hand, and I asked him if there was any chance the delay would allow getting the power-operated doors into production from the outset. I pointed out that the Tesla Model X, some Mercedes models, and other cars already had them, so it was not novel technology. He told me it was a sensor problem they had not yet resolved with suppliers. He said there was no chance the production delay would make it possible to get the power feature in the earliest production but assured me it would come later.

I had read in a Lucid article that the doors would open a full 90 degrees, but the power-operated doors on the cars in Miami and West Palm did not open that far. I saw in a recent video that the production doors would be modified and would, in fact, open a full 90 degrees. Given the low, intrusive roof line, it will be very hard to reach the handle of a fully-opened door to pull it closed from inside the car. In light of what you were told in Scottsdale, I now wonder if opening the doors that wide creates another problem for the power mechanism?

At the end of the day, the power-operated doors may have become just another once-touted feature that Lucid has dropped along the way, joining the air suspension, full-spectrum active noise cancellation, acoustic glass, electrochromic canopy, the cabin heat pump . . . . I just hope they get the car into production while it still has four wheels.
 
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