Is Power vs Range mainly a software setting?

[AIR.LUCID]

Is it theoretically possible that Lucid could adjust the Pure to have even more range with less power? A trade-off I'd be willing to make. For example, give me a max of 240 hp and more range.

 

[Slam08]

The 0-60 times for epa estimates take about 18 seconds and many other estimates that make it pretty limited.

The range you see advertised is using as little power as possible.

Most people get less .

 

[AIR.LUCID]

Is the hardware for DE-P, DE-R, GT-P, and GT identical? Just software tuned to have different specs?

 

[Volker.Berlin]

That’s an interesting question. I don’t have authoritative source, but I doubt it: If it was only in software that would mean that you could have both in the same car (which is exactly what you’re getting at). Then if Lucid could offer a software switch, like, just another one of those three drive modes they already have, why wouldn’t they do it? At least as a paid option?

The only reason I can think of is that it’s not that easy. Therefore I conclude that the answer to your question is probably „no“.

 

[CraZ8]

That’s an interesting question. I don’t have authoritative source, but I doubt it: If it was only in software that would mean that you could have both in the same car (which is exactly what you’re getting at). Then if Lucid could offer a software switch, like, just another one of those three drive modes they already have, why wouldn’t they do it? At least as a paid option?

The only reason I can think of is that it’s not that easy. Therefore I conclude that the answer to your question is no.

There is supposedly a small difference in the metallurgy in the motors between the Dream and GT versions that may account for the 60 hp difference between the performance editions. I do believe that if Lucid keeps telling us each motor is capable of 640 hp then this must be mostly a software change. Even my old Tesla p85d was upgraded from insane to Ludicrous mode this way with one hardware change( the main battery pack fuse)If that can’t be achieved over the air then certainly at a service center. That’s why I think the 40k upgrade from air GT to a performance version is a royal screwing. Some badging and some software adjustments. They would get a hell of a lot more takers( and profit) if they offered it at 15k. But that would probably piss off the Dream owners so they priced the change to make it more expensive than the Dream version

 

[Volker.Berlin]

That’s why I think the 40k upgrade from air GT to a performance version is a royal screwing.

The technical term is price differentiation, and it’s a way to get the most money out of each customer:

Price discrimination - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don’t criticize Lucid for it. IMO it’s fair. Nobody „needs“ the performance version, so if someone absolutely thinks they must have it, why not take their money?

 

[Steveinarizona]

Is it theoretically possible that Lucid could adjust the Pure to have even more range with less power? A trade-off I'd be willing to make. For example, give me a max of 240 hp and more range.

Not me. There are many, many BEVs that can sacrifice performance for range. What is attractive, for me, is that Lucid has combined both. Not including Tesla, there are currently not many that do that...the MB EQS and BMW IX come to mind.

BMW has done what you suggested with the I4. The base model EDrive 40 has 335 HP and an EPA range of 280-300 miles. The upgraded model, the I4 M50 has 536 HP but sacrifices range for an EPA range of 227-250 miles.

My problem is I want both and Lucid is one of the few that currently do that.

Keep in mind that you will be using that 240 HP to move a very, very heavy vehicle.

 

[bws]

I assumed the price of the performance GT was based on the 'new pricing', so it will not go up up when the regular GT goes up to $154k on June 30th.

 

[CraZ8]

The technical term is price differentiation, and it’s a way to get the most money out of each customer:

Price discrimination - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don’t criticize Lucid for it. IMO it’s fair. Nobody „needs“ the performance version, so if someone absolutely thinks they must have it, why not take their money?

My point exactly. But I think lucid might have 150 customers per thousand upgrade to the performance version at 15 k but only 30 or so per thousand upgrade at 40 k. I think they would make a lot more money at a lower price point

 

[OCDC]

A few musings on battery electric vehicles, and Lucid specifically:

- The batteries and the pack architecture are usually the limiting factor in how much HP a vehicle can develop. Case in point, Lucid's motors are rated for 670HP each (1340 total), but the AGT vehicle is only rated for 816HP total. My strong suspicion is that the cell design is what limits how many joules can be delivered to the motors and still meet the battery warranty and production yield requirements.
- They can cherry-pick which cells are put into a pack and which packs are installed into a vehicle (not all cells are created equally, even within the same type and model), and eek out more HP for the vehicle. The AGT-P is likely an example of this.
- The beautiful thing about modern electric motors is that they only create as much HP as the electricity you put into them, very nearly 1:1 (the best are something like 95% efficient). If the car needs 20HP to move down the road at a given speed, the controls only supply enough power to maintain that speed. Then it's just minimizing the parasitic drags (air drag, ball bearing drag, electrical losses, etc.) to get the best mi/kWh.
- Putting higher HP motors into vehicles makes sense for efficiency because the high HP also allows for stronger regeneration. A 670HP motor can recapture much more power into the batteries than a 200HP one.
- Accelerating hard uses more power than accelerating slowly. A light vehicle takes less power to get to speed than a heavy one. Limiting maximum speed is more efficient than driving flat out. Those rules are the same whether it's an electric or ICE car. You cannot change the laws of physics.

So to your point @Ramsnazz, and the tl;dr version: Software can be altered to get more net HP at the expense of battery life, but reducing the HP available in software doesn't make much sense except to force the driver to accelerate and drive more slowly. There may be some value in that for those of us with lead feet, but I'd want it as a "Driving Miss Daisy" option.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Somewhere I read, there are weight differences between trims. If it is just software, then they should all have same weight.

 

[hmp10]

Is the hardware for DE-P, DE-R, GT-P, and GT identical? Just software tuned to have different specs?

The Dream Editions use batteries from Samsung, and the other variants use LG Chem batteries. This might account for the 6-kWh additional capacity in the battery packs of the Dreams, although they have the same number of cells as the other variants. Thus at least some of the greater power of the Dream versions might derive from more available current from its battery pack.

Also, I was told a couple of years ago by Zak Edson, the VP of Sales & Service, that the Dream Edition had a rear motor with a special metallurgy that added about 15 hp and an undisclosed but more significant step-up in torque. (However, that was before the Dreams split into two versions, and I don't know what finally made it to production.)

Somewhere I read, there are weight differences between trims. If it is just software, then they should all have same weight.

According to Lucid's spec sheets, all the variants with the larger battery packs have the same curb weight. I find that a little suspicious, though, as there should be noticeable weight differences between the 19" and 21" wheel packages alone.

 

[Slam08]

According to Lucid's spec sheets, all the variants with the larger battery packs have the same curb weight. I find that a little suspicious, though, as there should be noticeable weight differences between the 19" and 21" wheel packages alone.

I see this a lot with vehicles. Options and trims and accessories add weight but the reported weight is the same. I assume they weigh one model and use that weight for a batch of vehicles

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Not me. There are many, many BEVs that can sacrifice performance for range. What is attractive, for me, is that Lucid has combined both.

Exactly. On my road trip I gunned it several times in Swift mode and still ended up with 3.6 mi/kWh. I’m sure if you were driving like you were on a track it would kill the range, but there’s seems to be not much of range penalty to have some fun. I don’t even know what Sprint mode is for, Swift is plenty insane if you’re looking to amuse yourself/terrify your passengers.

 

[hmp10]

Exactly. On my road trip I gunned it several times in Swift mode and still ended up with 3.6 mi/kWh. I’m sure if you were driving like you were on a track it would kill the range, but there’s seems to be not much of range penalty to have some fun. I don’t even know what Sprint mode is for, Swift is plenty insane if you’re looking to amuse yourself/terrify your passengers.

I've noticed something similar. While I haven't done any disciplined testing, there are some 20-30 mile round trips I do almost every day. In certain traffic conditions and in certain moods, I put the car in "Sprint" mode and make good use of it. I arrive home with about the same average kWn usage as on days when I drive more sedately in "Swift" or even "Smooth" modes.

(We do a lot of local driving, mostly because of the distances in our spread-out area. We have taken no really long trips in the Lucid and have three cars in our two-person household. Yet I'm still racking up almost 1300 miles a month in the Air.)

 

[DaveyBoyGT]

Exactly. On my road trip I gunned it several times in Swift mode and still ended up with 3.6 mi/kWh. I’m sure if you were driving like you were on a track it would kill the range, but there’s seems to be not much of range penalty to have some fun. I don’t even know what Sprint mode is for, Swift is plenty insane if you’re looking to amuse yourself/terrify your passengers.

That is exactly what the Sprint mode is for: to amuse yourself and satisfy your "need for speed" and give your passengers a thrill they have never experienced in a car before. Also for drag racing. Haha! Once the thrill has subsided you will return to enjoyable cruising, with an occasional goose at the light to beat a Tesla Plaid off the line.

 

[hmp10]

. . . with an occasional goose at the light to beat a Tesla Plaid off the line.

Can't really do that if the Plaid driver is paying attention. But then, again, by staying a few ticks behind the Plaid you get to see his tail wagging as his front end comes loose.

Trust me. We have a Plaid and a Dream Edition Performance.

 

[DaveyBoyGT]

Can't really do that if the Plaid driver is paying attention. But then, again, by staying a few ticks behind the Plaid you get to see his tail wagging as his front end comes loose.

Trust me. We have a Plaid and a Dream Edition Performance.

Can't really do that if the Plaid driver is paying attention. But then, again, by staying a few ticks behind the Plaid you get to see his tail wagging as his front end comes loose.

Trust me. We have a Plaid and a Dream Edition Performance.

Sorry, but I don't trust your judgement. You obviously know little about drag racing. In drag racing it is all about the driver, not all drivers are created equal. The fastest car does NOT always win the race, it is all about anticipation and reaction. I suggest you go to a drag race or watch one on TV. I my case I would jump the light by a split second while the Tesla driver is fumbling with his airplane steering wheel and looking for guidance on his Gameboy info screen. I will be 100 yds down the road ahead of him and slowing down to avoid exceeding the speed limit.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Sorry, but I don't trust your judgement. You obviously know little about drag racing. In drag racing it is all about the driver, not all drivers are created equal. The fastest car does NOT always win the race, it is all about anticipation and reaction. I suggest you go to a drag race or watch one on TV. I my case I would jump the light by a split second while the Tesla driver is fumbling with his airplane steering wheel and looking for guidance on his Gameboy info screen. I will be 100 yds down the road ahead of him and slowing down to avoid exceeding the speed limit.

If you are 100 yards down the road in Sprint Mode you are already exceeding the speed limit!!

 

[hmp10]

Sorry, but I don't trust your judgement. You obviously know little about drag racing. In drag racing it is all about the driver, not all drivers are created equal. The fastest car does NOT always win the race, it is all about anticipation and reaction. I suggest you go to a drag race or watch one on TV. I my case I would jump the light by a split second while the Tesla driver is fumbling with his airplane steering wheel and looking for guidance on his Gameboy info screen. I will be 100 yds down the road ahead of him and slowing down to avoid exceeding the speed limit.

With two drivers of equal competence, the Plaid will be quicker off the line. It’s in the numbers. I’ve watched innumerable videos of acceleration matchups between the two, many by seasoned drivers, and I’ve yet to see an Air prevail.