Is "nuisance tripping" problem with Wunderbox and 14-50 plug?

[Sport]

Electrical contractor for our condo complex warns that using portable chargers such as Wunderbox plugged into 14-50 outlet may cause "nuisance tripping". Reason is that Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter ("GFI") circuit breaker must be using in wiring the outlet. He suggests using a permanently installed charger that is hard-wired to avoid this problem. Obviously would rather use the Wunderbox and Lucid cable to avoid buying another charger. I'm not sure if Wunderbox has its own built in GFI but believe having two of these in series may be part of problem. Does anyone have any experience as to whether problem real? How to avoid if using plug-in Wunderbox? Many thanks

 

[HC_79]

I've had 2 14-50 outlet chargers and never had "tripping" issues in 3 years. Why would anyone want it hardwired? The whole point of them is to be able to take them with you if you need to charge elsewhere etc.

 

[hydbob]

The Lucid mobile charger that comes with the car does not draw more than the circuit can give.

 

[Adnillien]

Some local codes require a GFI NEMA 14-50 outdoors or in a garage which I think is the issue @Sport is asking. Many chargers recommend using a hardwire connection rather than plugging into a GFI outlet. This is probably why his electrician is commenting on it. I do not know if it is a real problem or not. If anyone is using a GFI protected 14-50 plug without problems it would be good to know.

 

[Sandvinsd]

I have never had any tripping problems with my mobile Nissan Leaf charger when plugged into a GFI outlet. Our ChargePoint Flex is plugged into a dedicated circuit with a NEMA 14-50 outlet but it is not GFI. Neither it nor the mobile charger plugged into that outlet have ever tripped it, although my Chargepoint has glitched twice in the 2 years I have had it.

 

[MikeTz]

All Vehicle chargers must have Ground Fault Detection. Give a call to Lucid Customer Care and ask if the charger provided with the car can be used with a GFI circuit breaker.

 

[hydbob]

I've used it on a GFCI circuit with no issue

 

[Sport]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. Much appreciated! Have now heard directly from the relevant Lucid engineer via my DA. He confirms that for all EVs, 14-50 receptacle needs to be properly wired. This means there will be a GFCI breaker in both your electrical feed and in the Wunderbox. Key is to have a 50 amp dedicated breaker and therefore 40A available at outlet. Then the car will properly 'communicate' through the charger to pull no more than 40A and avoid tripping the breaker. This seems to be what several of you are saying. Am excited and looking forward to arrival of my AGT though no VIN yet. Believe, I put down a deposit in January and have since confirmed my order. My #1 remaining concern: our home is built into a butte and hence steeply raked driveway to road. Formerly had a Panamera 4 which made it up without drag but a little front wheel spin if I assaulted incline too slowly. We'll see!

 

[stevelitchfieldpark]

I've used it on a GFCI circuit with no issue

Is a GFI necessary inside the garage?

 

[MikeTz]

Is a GFI necessary inside the garage?

My Garage 14-50 receptacle is not connected to a GFCI breaker and it charges with no issues.

 

[borski]

Is a GFI necessary inside the garage?

No, but if you have a connection above 60A (I think; I’m not an electrician) it has to be hardwired, and it has to have an emergency disconnect. A breaker in a subpanel (in the garage) that is accessible, however, should serve as an emergency disconnect.

You do not need a GFCI breaker, but of course your local code may vary, and again: I’m not an electrician.

 

[hydbob]

Is a GFI necessary inside the garage?

GFCI is to protect your house from burning down. Whether or not it is necessary...your call. Also not an electrician like @borski

 

[AIR.LUCID]

Some local codes require a GFI NEMA 14-50 outdoors or in a garage which I think is the issue @Sport is asking. Many chargers recommend using a hardwire connection rather than plugging into a GFI outlet. This is probably why his electrician is commenting on it. I do not know if it is a real problem or not. If anyone is using a GFI protected 14-50 plug without problems it would be good to know.

btw, can a car short out to ground?

 

[Adnillien]

btw, can a car short out to ground?

When plugged in to a level 2 charger, the equipment ground of the charger is connected to the ground of the car. Hence, it is possible for the car to short to ground if there was a defect in the car. The risk and the reason for the Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt is to prevent a person from being the path between equipment/car and ground. The GFCI will not prevent your house from burning down, the 50A (or other) circuit breaker does that. However, it may prevent you from being electrocuted in the case of a ground fault. Many see that as more dangerous than burning your house down. For this reason all EV charges have built in GFCI.

The issue with the NEMA 14-50 plug is that the NEC was updated in 2019-20 to require GFCI on all outlets in garages and outdoor areas. Previously, GFCI plugs were only required on 120 volt outlets in those locations. Local codes are still catching up to this requirement and NEMA 14-50 plugs have to be GFCI protected. When using a hardwired charger, GFCI protection is only required in the charger, not in the circuit. Hence, no GFCI breaker.

I am not an electrician so please insure your own safety.

 

[Dnj]

As a Master Electrician in multiple States, the issue has become redundancy. We are now required to install a gfci breaker for EVs when installing a 14-30, 6-50, 14-50, etc,but Level 2 Chargers already give GFCI protection through the device. The trip can occur because a GFCI doesn't always mesh with another GFCI. For example, I'll go to a service call where a customer has a common 15A indoor GFCI in a bathroom protecting another GFCI in another bathroom and they have nuisance tripping. I will go into a home a month later and discover the same thing yet they never have tripping. Don't even get me started with AFCI breakers. They are even worse. A NEMA 14-50 is also used for RV/5th wheels. If I install one of those in a garage, I do not have to give it GFCI protection. Code doesn't require it. I can label the panel RV and walk away knowing I followed the current code. I think you can read into what I am saying here. Also, a Eaton CH GFCI 50 amp breaker is $200+ but a common 2 pole 50 amp breaker is $35. I hope this helps a little.

 

[SDHacker]

I hope this helps a little.

Thanks - yes, I see a phantom RV in my future

 

[hydbob]

Thanks - yes, I see a phantom RV in my future

I already have a phantom RV charging plug, they are great!

 

[DeaneG]

Local codes vary. Not all municipalities are using the current version of the NEC which requires GFCI on all garage, bath and laundry outlets. Cascading GFCIs (one at the breaker and one in the EVSE charging station) isn't the design intent of a GFCI and frequently causes tripping problems. Hardwired EVSEs do not require a GFCI breaker, can be wired on a 60 amp circuit to charge faster, have fewer connections and are more reliable, and are safer as there is no outlet to age and overheat, no 240V prongs for little fingers to touch, etc.