Gravity Orders Discussion

[WeighingGravity]

Optimistic read of this interview/news: Perhaps finalization of hardware in the Wunderbox has held up further Gravity production? Now with Supercharger access dialed in they can finalize design and fire the line up again?

 

[Bobby]

I'd say that's not a reasonable conclusion. Retrofitting all the cameras and sensors in a car that doesn't have them would be a cost-prohibitive task. Why would you lead someone down a rabbit hole that they have the processing power for HA, they just need to go install some cameras? Obviously that's never going to be possible.

The right answer is that if you have DD PRO you have the hardware required for future HA improvements. If you have DD Basic or Premium, then you do not have the hardware required for HA or for future HA improvements.

Go back and read his question. He asked if his car has the processing power to handle it if it were equipped with the proper sensors and cameras. That’s all he asked. He did not say anything about retrofitting.

 

[DrLucid]

Optimistic read of this interview/news: Perhaps finalization of hardware in the Wunderbox has held up further Gravity production? Now with Supercharger access dialed in they can finalize design and fire the line up again?

I really hope that's true, it would be great if it were.

 

[Elfin]

• it was suggested that the charge rate at 50% would be "over 200kw"
• Emad said Gravity charging curve would "be the best", suggesting it will beat the Taycan

Taycan is 320kW at 50%. No way it beats that. My guess is that charging rate in terms of highway mph will probably be third behind the Taycan and Air. It will be the best charging SUV by a large margin.

Optimistic read of this interview/news: Perhaps finalization of hardware in the Wunderbox has held up further Gravity production? Now with Supercharger access dialed in they can finalize design and fire the line up again?

The Gravity uses the rear motor inverter to do DC-DC, not the Wunderbox. He did say they did the design was done in a year and it did sound like it was one of last things completed.

 

[Knucklehead]

Taycan is 320kW at 50%. No way it beats that. My guess is that charging rate in terms of highway mph will probably be third behind the Taycan and Air. It will be the best charging SUV by a large margin.

320kW is a very high bar. And the Taycan is a smaller vehicle, so very likely more efficient at 80 mph. So the OOS 10% test will likely still favor the Taycan regardless of how much faster the Gravity charges.

But from a pure charging perspective, I think Porsche is getting those crazy charging speed numbers because of the way the pack is cooled. Based on the OOS podcast, it seems like Lucid is trying to beat that performance. They have upgraded everything battery related from the Air, including the cooling system Can the Gravity maintain 320kW at 50% SoC? Why not? If Porsche can do it, why not Gravity?

What if the Gravity maintains 400 kW past 50% SoC? Kyle will pee in his pants.

 

[Elfin]

320kW is a very high bar. And the Taycan is a smaller vehicle, so very likely more efficient at 80 mph. So the OOS 10% test will likely still favor the Taycan regardless of how much faster the Gravity charges.

But from a pure charging perspective, I think Porsche is getting those crazy charging speed numbers because of the way the pack is cooled. Based on the OOS podcast, it seems like Lucid is trying to beat that performance. They have upgraded everything battery related from the Air, including the cooling system Can the Gravity maintain 320kW at 50% SoC? Why not? If Porsche can do it, why not Gravity?

What if the Gravity maintains 400 kW past 50% SoC? Kyle will pee in his pants.

I bet the Lucid pack is significantly more energy dense in terms of both weight and volume. Despite Lucid's claim everything is a compromise.
Emad said "very close to 2C" at 50% and 2C = 2*123kWh/h = 246kW.

 

[Knucklehead]

I bet the Lucid pack is significantly more energy dense in terms of both weight and volume. Despite Lucid's claim everything is a compromise.
Emad said "very close to 2C" at 50% and 2C = 2*123kWh/h = 246kW.

How does Porsche do it?

 

[Elfin]

How does Porsche do it?

I already said, a less dense battery pack. Emud talks about charging speed of battery cells at 25:00. Porsche uses pouch cells which have better cooling.

 

[BobFM]

Either way, it certainly sounds like Gravity's charging curve, and its ability to utilize maximum speeds from both Superchargers and CCS chargers, will impress. Looking forward to seeing the various reviewers run it thru the ringer...

 

[hmp10]

I've been slogging through the comment sections of videos that are cropping up in the follow-on to Lucid's announcement about Supercharging. It's interesting how charging speeds are becoming the new mine-is-bigger-than-yours gearhead obsession: "Yeah, but a Porsche can still beat it by 3 minutes." "Why would I pay $100K for a more convenient road trip?" Etc.

Traveling through a region with sparse DCFC coverage, arriving at a charging station to find it out of service, or getting abysmal charging levels, or finding lines of cars waiting to plug in are all very serious problems that need addressing with all due haste.

But spending an extra 3-5 minutes at a charging stop? Is it really that big a deal? Especially if you're stressing the battery pack up to its maximum allowable limits?

 

[Elfin]

I've been slogging through the comment sections of videos that are cropping up in the follow-on to Lucid's announcement about Supercharging. It's interesting how charging speeds are becoming the new mine-is-bigger-than-yours gearhead obsession: "Yeah, but a Porsche can still beat it by 3 minutes." "Why would I pay $100K for a more convenient road trip?" Etc.

Traveling through a region with sparse DCFC coverage, arriving at a charging station to find it out of service, or getting abysmal charging levels, or finding lines of cars waiting to plug in are all very serious problems that need addressing with all due haste.

But spending an extra 3-5 minutes at a charging stop? Is it really that big a deal? Especially if you're stressing the battery pack up to its maximum allowable limits?

The biggest reason I'm not considering a Rivian is that you have to charge almost 15 minutes per hour of driving at 80mph. The Gravity will be close to 15 minutes every two hours of driving. To me that's a huge difference. The Porsche K1, their Gravity competitor, is rumored to cost $200k. For that price I would hope it has faster charging!

 

[RD7]

I bet the Lucid pack is significantly more energy dense in terms of both weight and volume. Despite Lucid's claim everything is a compromise.
Emad said "very close to 2C" at 50% and 2C = 2*123kWh/h = 246kW.

It's hard to say what the story is right now, as they are still being cagey about the specs. Also, Emad is not the best communicator. But he was clear that efficiency is part of the equation, so perhaps they are looking for leadership in "miles gained per minute of charging," and not just kwh added. The OOS 10% challenge test will be illustrative but won't tell the whole story.

I was very amused today to see Tesla announce 325kw charging on the Cybertrtuck (V4 stalls only), just one day after Lucid announced that Gravity will change faster on Superchargers than Tesla vehicles. Gotta love it.

 

[hmp10]

The biggest reason I'm not considering a Rivian is that you have to charge almost 15 minutes per hour of driving at 80mph. The Gravity will be close to 15 minutes every two hours of driving. To me that's a huge difference. The Porsche K1, their Gravity competitor, is rumored to cost $200k. For that price I would hope it has faster charging!

How do you figures the 2 hours?

The Gravity I have on order has 386 miles of EPA range. With a 123-kWh battery, that works out to 3.14 m/kWh. Assuming I get only 80% of that in real-world highway driving and that I use 75% of the pack's capacity (to leave buffers for unexpected conditions), that still leaves about 3 hours of 80-mph driving.

Are you suggesting it will take 45 minutes at a properly functioning charge station to replace that 75% of battery capacity in a Gravity?

 

[Elfin]

How do you figures the 2 hours?

The Gravity I have on order has 386 miles of EPA range. With a 123-kWh battery, that works out to 3.14 m/kWh. Assuming I get only 80% of that in real-world highway driving and that I use 75% of the pack's capacity (to leave buffers for unexpected conditions), that still leaves about 3 hours of 80-mph driving.

Are you suggesting it will take 45 minutes at a properly functioning charge station to replace that 75% of battery capacity in a Gravity?

I'm talking about steady state driving at 80mph (aka the OOS 10% challenge). I'm hoping the Gravity will get 160 miles of 80mph range with 15 minutes of charging. The Rivian R1S only gets 85mi of 80mph range in 15 minutes and I think that would be painful on long Interstate drives.

 

[hmp10]

I'm talking about steady state driving at 80mph (aka the OOS 10% challenge). I'm hoping the Gravity will get 160 miles of 80mph range with 15 minutes of charging. The Rivian R1S only gets 85mi of 80mph range in 15 minutes and I think that would be painful on long Interstate drives.

I'm probably an outlier on this, but I have a different take on charging quickly. (Leave aside the additional stress it puts on even the best-engineered cells and packs.) I think this issue plays out a little differently depending on whether you only do fast charging on road trips or don't have home charging and have to rely on DCFC for all your charging.

On our road trips we generally take a meal or snack break along with a bathroom break at a charging stop. And relatively few charging stations are immediately adjacent to facilities for either, instead being in the farther reaches of large parking lots. I am a stickler about not leaving a car plugged in after charging is finished, even before EA imposed a penalty for doing so. A 15- or 20-minute charging stop doesn't leave enough time for much other business, meaning you are stuck in the car for that time period and then have to add a meal break to the stopover time. I'd usually rather do the meal break inside the charging window rather than outside it. It's actually a net gain in terms of total travel time.

For a person who has to do all their charging at Level 3 chargers, then I begin to see more advantage in the fastest charging you can get.

A lot of these exercises such as the OOS 10% challenges are all about racing the clock to set benchmarks. They don't really assess the larger realities of what actually goes on with a road trip.

 

[BobFM]

I'm probably an outlier on this, but I have a different take on charging quickly. (Leave aside the additional stress it puts on even the best-engineered cells and packs.) I think this issue plays out a little differently depending on whether you only do fast charging on road trips or don't have home charging and have to rely on DCFC for all your charging.

On our road trips we generally take a meal or snack break along with a bathroom break at a charging stop. And relatively few charging stations are immediately adjacent to facilities for either, instead being in the farther reaches of large parking lots. I am a stickler about not leaving a car plugged in after charging is finished, even before EA imposed a penalty for doing so. A 15- or 20-minute charging stop doesn't leave enough time for much other business, meaning you are stuck in the car for that time period and then have to add a meal break to the stopover time. I'd usually rather do the meal break inside the charging window rather than outside it. It's actually a net gain in terms of total travel time.

For a person who has to do all their charging at Level 3 chargers, then I begin to see more advantage in the fastest charging you can get.

A lot of these exercises such as the OOS 10% challenges are all about racing the clock to set benchmarks. They don't really assess the larger realities of what actually goes on with a road trip.

All great points. I do almost all of my charging at home via the Lucid station, so am always at 80% when I wake up and, as a result, am less stressed about charging. That said, I did just change my tire selection on my Gravity order to get the maximum range for the 7-seater. 50 miles of extra cushion (less when accounting for real world conditions) is just too much to pass up IMO.

Aside from that, living in central Texas, I'm ecstatic about being able to use the Tesla superchargers at all of the Buc-ee's on I-10 on my drives east to Florida. In terms of rest stops, there are none better and taking 15-20 minutes (or more) inside is never a problem since we can get everything you mention above (charging, bathroom, food, etc.) all in one stop.

 

[Elfin]

I'm probably an outlier on this, but I have a different take on charging quickly. (Leave aside the additional stress it puts on even the best-engineered cells and packs.) I think this issue plays out a little differently depending on whether you only do fast charging on road trips or don't have home charging and have to rely on DCFC for all your charging.

On our road trips we generally take a meal or snack break along with a bathroom break at a charging stop. And relatively few charging stations are immediately adjacent to facilities for either, instead being in the farther reaches of large parking lots. I am a stickler about not leaving a car plugged in after charging is finished, even before EA imposed a penalty for doing so. A 15- or 20-minute charging stop doesn't leave enough time for much other business, meaning you are stuck in the car for that time period and then have to add a meal break to the stopover time. I'd usually rather do the meal break inside the charging window rather than outside it. It's actually a net gain in terms of total travel time.

For a person who has to do all their charging at Level 3 chargers, then I begin to see more advantage in the fastest charging you can get.

A lot of these exercises such as the OOS 10% challenges are all about racing the clock to set benchmarks. They don't really assess the larger realities of what actually goes on with a road trip.

I have home charging so I'm only talking about road trips. I find that my charging stops are bi-modal. For me 15 minutes is plenty of time to walk to the bathroom and back. If I'm eating then I appreciate being able to charge for an hour and get to 100%. As you said though the more people on the road trip the more time you spend stopped anyway.
Anyway, I'm very happy with the announced charging specs! Now I just need to justify spending this much money on a car. I wonder when lease pricing will be announced...

 

[bryway]

I'm probably an outlier on this, but I have a different take on charging quickly. (Leave aside the additional stress it puts on even the best-engineered cells and packs.) I think this issue plays out a little differently depending on whether you only do fast charging on road trips or don't have home charging and have to rely on DCFC for all your charging.

On our road trips we generally take a meal or snack break along with a bathroom break at a charging stop. And relatively few charging stations are immediately adjacent to facilities for either, instead being in the farther reaches of large parking lots. I am a stickler about not leaving a car plugged in after charging is finished, even before EA imposed a penalty for doing so. A 15- or 20-minute charging stop doesn't leave enough time for much other business, meaning you are stuck in the car for that time period and then have to add a meal break to the stopover time. I'd usually rather do the meal break inside the charging window rather than outside it. It's actually a net gain in terms of total travel time.

For a person who has to do all their charging at Level 3 chargers, then I begin to see more advantage in the fastest charging you can get.

A lot of these exercises such as the OOS 10% challenges are all about racing the clock to set benchmarks. They don't really assess the larger realities of what actually goes on with a road trip.

I roadtrip frequently between Northern California and Southern California -- have properties at both ends. When I bought my first Tesla, a 2019 Model X P100D, I enjoyed the fact the car was a bit of a charging pig (slowest charging performance of any 2019 Tesla between 20-80%) because it meant I'd have ~45 minutes to visit the facilities and grab a bite to eat. What Id didn't like is the fact I was limited to whatever food was available nearby a charging stop.

When I bought my 2022 Model X Plaid, charging performance improved significantly, shaving about 12 minutes off what had previously been a reliable 45 minute window. As a result, I've de-coupled meals from my charging window, and now just eat wherever I want (for as long as I want -- and am happier), then push off. Charging stops are now just for restroom breaks -- the quicker the better. Since this is now my 'normal', I'm looking forward to the even better charging performance in the Gravity.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

And then there is the beauty of EFFICIENCY where we all know Lucid truly shines. IMHO, it is the combination of pack size, efficiency AND charging speed that makes Lucid a real leader in the EV world at this moment in time.

I know that the attached screenshot is from an Air ('25 AGT, 19" wheels), not a Gravity, but it does illustrate the benefit of having the efficiency and range to not charge at all. Today I had to go up to NY State for a one hour meeting. 95% highway driving at 73 MPH. Temps started at 24 degrees this morning and averaged around 36 for the entire drive. I charged from 80% to 100% at home (at 48 amps) during the two hours before I left at 7:30am and warmed the cabin for the last 30 minutes before leaving to 70 degrees. I did not need the climate on when driving the car after the first 70 miles because by then the sunshine was so bright that I was comfy. I was still showing 162 miles of range left when I plugged back in at home. I will take 450+ miles of REAL range at 73 MPH in February any day of the week. BTW, I picked my car up 12/15/24, so all driving thus far has been winter driving. I am fairly confidence that Gravity will have the same relative best in class performance and that is truly exciting!!

 

[momo3605]

And then there is the beauty of EFFICIENCY where we all know Lucid truly shines. IMHO, it is the combination of pack size, efficiency AND charging speed that makes Lucid a real leader in the EV world at this moment in time.

I know that the attached screenshot is from an Air ('25 AGT, 19" wheels), not a Gravity, but it does illustrate the benefit of having the efficiency and range to not charge at all. Today I had to go up to NY State for a one hour meeting. 95% highway driving at 73 MPH. Temps started at 24 degrees this morning and averaged around 36 for the entire drive. I charged from 80% to 100% at home (at 48 amps) during the two hours before I left at 7:30am and warmed the cabin for the last 30 minutes before leaving to 70 degrees. I did not need the climate on when driving the car after the first 70 miles because by then the sunshine was so bright that I was comfy. I was still showing 162 miles of range left when I plugged back in at home. I will take 450+ miles of REAL range at 73 MPH in February any day of the week. BTW, I picked my car up 12/15/24, so all driving thus far has been winter driving. I am fairly confidence that Gravity will have the same relative best in class performance and that is truly exciting!!View attachment 26323

Nicely done! Preconditioning, running no HVAC, cruise control at 73 feels a little hypermile-y, but kudos to having the patience to do all that!

Kind of unrelated...but since you seem to be very efficiency minded...what kind of lifetime efficiency were you seeing on your Model 3? I understand it is a smaller and lighter car, so I'm not trying to discredit your Lucid numbers.