GM to use Tesla charging network, joining Ford in leveraging the EV leader's tech
GM, like Ford, will begin installing a charging port used by Tesla, known as NACS, instead of the current industry-standard CCS in its EVs starting in 2025.
GM to use Tesla Charging Network
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Halodde
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I'm torn on how I feel about these deals. On the one hand, I'm concerned about how they might decrease the demand for growth and development of the CCS network. On the other hand, if Ford and GM vehicles are not using the CCS networks, that means more open chargers for our vehicles. I guess time will tell what this means to us and the growth of EV adoption
xponents
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I wonder if lucid could make a two sided charger, similar to the taycan.(this would also make the car symmetrical!) One CCS, one NACS. Although, I dont really know if that would work because I think NACS is more than just changing the port.
Impatient7536
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it should be pretty good for consumers if the automakers provide the adapters with the car purchases. you either go with a more reliable and prevalent option in tesla, or the "faster charging" and "newer tech" option in EA/other networks.
this will definitely put pressure on EA and other networks to up their game. let the invisible hand do the work, as long as it's fairly played out.
this will definitely put pressure on EA and other networks to up their game. let the invisible hand do the work, as long as it's fairly played out.
With all the Tesla superchargers around my area, and nationwide, I would love it if Lucid would make a similar announcement. However, if they did it would be several years, I expect. I have a Tesla and the experience charging has been very good. Just not enough superchargers in more remote areas. I've not used CCS, but from articles and videos I've seen many people experience problems.
Many people also don't experience any problems. I have yet to have an issue with any CCS charger here in Colorado. I also had a Tesla for three years and used their Supercharger network. Honestly, the experience has been about equivalent for me, in terms of availability and reliability. CCS has been cheaper, though. Even if I don't factor in the "free" EA charging I get on my Lucid.
Tesla's network is pricey. And none of this new "standardization" is likely to make them any cheaper.
xponents
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For sure, but it would be nice to have as an option given the reliability and commonality of superchargers. As I said, dual charging ports solve this.
Rob Stark
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At Del Amo Mall in Torrance, CA there is a Supercharger Station and EVgo station right next to each other.
This is across the street from Lucid Store in Torrance and the mall where there is a Tesla store. Heavy density of EVs.
Tesla is $0.50 per kWh and EVgo is $2.99 + $0.66 per kWh.
This is across the street from Lucid Store in Torrance and the mall where there is a Tesla store. Heavy density of EVs.
Tesla is $0.50 per kWh and EVgo is $2.99 + $0.66 per kWh.
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Alright! Good news for the Bolts go to TSCN to free up CCS bandwidth!
xponents
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Blue ray thanks to the playstation 3 bringing it to the masses, the xbox 360 failed in comparison.
It might take several years, but if they committed to a reasonably priced port and Wunderbox upgrade, assuming they couldn't fit what's needed for an adapter behind the existing port location, I'd see that as big news. I'm sure that their engineers know how viable any of this is, and I'd be surprised if none of them gave prior thought to what the process would be.
Diasagree, NACS doesnt support 1000V charging. Its plug is too small to support the cooling that is required. NACS is old technology. Only saving grace is they are reliable. Don't equate reliability to technology. CCS has superior technology but not reliable. Once they improve reliability, its a no brainer!
Tesla has already said that there's a 1000V version of NACS, but didn't say when it's coming. Rawlinson apparently said or implied that Lucid refuses to switch until Superchargers implement 1000V. That was not a direct quote, but was said in a tweet that also had a video clip in which Rawlinson did say that it doesn't matter whether it's NACS or CCS if it supports 1000V. That could be construed as him saying that Lucid will not switch to NACS if 1000V is not supported, but doesn't mean that Lucid would switch to it if 1000V is supported, nor does it rule it out.
Tesla's newer supercharger cables are liquid cooled. They are much thinner and easier to work with than the old heavy ones. They first implemented them in 2015 on a test basis. In 2019, they patented a liquid cooled connector, which they started using in 2021.
It's not just reliability but availability. The typical CCS station has two chargers. If one is broken, it's an obvious problem, but if both work, and my navigator says that I don't need a charge for 300 miles, it's impossible to tell whether there will be an available charger by the time I get there. And it's not a simple matter of stopping somewhere else, if I picked a charger in a location where I want to stop for lunch.
1000V Superchargers with magic jacks will be a potential solution, but there's no timeline for them. Switching to NACS before they go to 1000V is a non-starter. And having an adapter in the interim would be only moderately helpful. It wouldn't be useless because if I can add 150 miles of range over the course of an hour lunch break, giving me a total of over 600 miles for a given trip, it might be sufficient. But it would mean taking up three charging spaces, and would likely be used only in emergencies before 1000V support is added. The likelihood is that it would be faster to drive to another station with CCS and still quicker.
If Lucid agreed to switch when Tesla implements 1000V, it would be a positive sign, but not necessarily meaningful, if Tesla implements 1000V in V4 Superchargers that have Magic Jacks anyway. Having an adapter in the interim, even if it's designed to handle 1000V in the future, becomes meaningless if the only 1000V chargers are ones with Magic Jacks. But if nearly all other manufacturers switch to NACS, there will be a point when Tesla starts to phase out Magic Jacks in favor of a user supplied adapter.
Tesla's newer supercharger cables are liquid cooled. They are much thinner and easier to work with than the old heavy ones. They first implemented them in 2015 on a test basis. In 2019, they patented a liquid cooled connector, which they started using in 2021.
It's not just reliability but availability. The typical CCS station has two chargers. If one is broken, it's an obvious problem, but if both work, and my navigator says that I don't need a charge for 300 miles, it's impossible to tell whether there will be an available charger by the time I get there. And it's not a simple matter of stopping somewhere else, if I picked a charger in a location where I want to stop for lunch.
1000V Superchargers with magic jacks will be a potential solution, but there's no timeline for them. Switching to NACS before they go to 1000V is a non-starter. And having an adapter in the interim would be only moderately helpful. It wouldn't be useless because if I can add 150 miles of range over the course of an hour lunch break, giving me a total of over 600 miles for a given trip, it might be sufficient. But it would mean taking up three charging spaces, and would likely be used only in emergencies before 1000V support is added. The likelihood is that it would be faster to drive to another station with CCS and still quicker.
If Lucid agreed to switch when Tesla implements 1000V, it would be a positive sign, but not necessarily meaningful, if Tesla implements 1000V in V4 Superchargers that have Magic Jacks anyway. Having an adapter in the interim, even if it's designed to handle 1000V in the future, becomes meaningless if the only 1000V chargers are ones with Magic Jacks. But if nearly all other manufacturers switch to NACS, there will be a point when Tesla starts to phase out Magic Jacks in favor of a user supplied adapter.
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Voltage has nothing to do with the amount of cooling that is required. It is current that creates heat through resistive losses. Charging a Lucid with an 800V battery requires less current and therefore less cooling than charging a 400V car.
DBV
Active Member
Now Volvo switching to Tesla standard. The non Tesla charging standard will be dead soon. Great for the consumer that there will only be one standard eventually in NA and that the better, more reliable Tesla standard will be it.
It's not more reliable, yet. Again, Tesla Supercharger Network needs to prove itself with other manufacturers before it can be called reliable for ALL EVs. There is a HUGE assumption the reliability will carry over, but from the small sample size of Magic Dock uses, that is not the case.
DBV
Active Member
It is definitely more reliable than any CCS charger. Tesla has the track record to prove it. No matter what anyone thinks of Tesla, they surely got the Supercharging right.
Why do you think car manufactures are switching to it? I have never once had one issue supercharging my Tesla. When the other manufactures produce cars that have the Tesla charging connector built in, then it will certainly be more reliable for them too.
With all these manufacturers eventually switching to Tesla chargers and ditching CCS, it makes me think twice about purchasing any EV with CCS built in until the Tesla charger is built in, as the CCS standard could be obsolete in a matter of years.
As a consumer, this will be best for the adoption of EV’s in North America, as CCS superchargers have too many negative stories about them. You can just look at this forum and see that. I would feel much better buying a Lucid or any CCS car if it had Tesla supercharging connector built in and could access the reliable Tesla Supercharging network and I am not alone.
You missed his point entirely. They do not have the track record to prove anything about other manufacturer cars on the Supercharger network in the US.It is definitely more reliable than any CCS charger. Tesla has the track record to prove it. No matter what anyone thinks of Tesla, they surely got the Supercharging right.
Why do you think car manufactures are switching to it? I have never once had one issue supercharging my Tesla. When the other manufactures produce cars that have the Tesla charging connector built in, then it will certainly be more reliable for them too.
With all these manufacturers eventually switching to Tesla chargers and ditching CCS, it makes me think twice about purchasing any EV with CCS built in until the Tesla charger is built in, as the CCS standard could be obsolete in a matter of years.
As a consumer, this will be best for the adoption of EV’s in North America, as CCS superchargers have too many negative stories about them. You can just look at this forum and see that. I would feel much better buying a Lucid or any CCS car if it had Tesla supercharging connector built in and could access the reliable Tesla Supercharging network and I am not alone.
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