FSD: "Some feel compelled to defend the indefensible."

[Dortreo]

Really interesting article about Tesla stans and their inability to reconcile reality with Tesla zeal.

When personal and political identity determines what we believe, rather than the observations we make of the world around us, dialogue is fruitless and progress is out of the question. It's a lesson that's handy to keep in mind when reading any news story.

 

[HC_79]

There is a reason why Tesla keeps this system classed as "Level 2" it's purely so they can avoid all the regulatory rules that come with Level 3 and above and put the onus straight back onto the driver when something goes wrong with FSD. The issue is that if stuff like this continues to happen the lawmakers will have no choice but to clamp down on the rules and regulations when it comes to this technology. This will be to the detriment of all automakers and ultimately consumers because of Tesla's arrogance and pushing the rules to the limit.

The article is spot on though. You can't have a discussion with a Tesla fanboy because they just defend the company in everything they do. It's like they're brainwashed that Elon and Tesla can do no wrong. Tesla has killed people because they've branded the system as such that it puts drivers into a false sense of security. Tesla's response? "Not our problem, the owner is required to pay attention at all times". It's a cop out because they know people are abusing it and choose to do nothing about it continuing to risk innocent peoples lives.

 

[Dortreo]

FSD seems to have it out for bikes. And for red lights.

 

[stealthpilot]

I had an interesting thought driving home last night in our Tesla. I had it in autopilot on the highway and I noticed that when I have it on autopilot I rest my right foot on the floor. Now I can imagine that if an emergency occurred, some people might end up pressing the wrong pedal and crashing. This led me to think that the pedal layout may need to be rethought in a world of self-driving or driver assist technology. The current pedal layout is ancient and it is based on manual transmission cars where your left foot handles the clutch, and your right foot toggles between throttle and brake.

In a world of autopilot, both your feet need a rest pedal. So ideally you would have the pedals further left, and toggle your right foot between rest pedal and throttle, and your left foot between rest pedal and brake. Since electric cars won't have clutches, there is no point saving space on the left for a clutch pedal.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Lucken]

I won’t use autopilot in any car for two main reasons:

1. I don’t trust it. My MS tried to kill me too many times.

2. I enjoy driving, so I have little desire to hand that over to the car. For me that’s the main point in choosing a car with good handling characteristics. Otherwise I’d get a Camry.

 

[hmp10]

In a world of autopilot, both your feet need a rest pedal. So ideally you would have the pedals further left, and toggle your right foot between rest pedal and throttle, and your left foot between rest pedal and brake. Since electric cars won't have clutches, there is no point saving space on the left for a clutch pedal.

Any thoughts on this?

Your thinking, while quite rational, is too far advanced for many car designers. Our Model S Plaid doesn't even have a dead pedal for the left foot.

As soon as I sat behind that yoke and saw the turn signal buttons, I realized that Tesla interior design is now even more about computer screens, tech tricks, and faux futurism posturing than it once was and has virtually nothing to do with the act of a driving a car.

It's the reason that, within a few days of our Air arriving, it took real persuasion for me to get into the driver's seat of the Tesla again.

 

[stealthpilot]

Your thinking, while quite rational, is too far advanced for many car designers. Our Model S Plaid doesn't even have a dead pedal for the left foot.

As soon as I sat behind that yoke and saw the turn signal buttons, I realized that Tesla interior design is now even more about computer screens, tech tricks, and faux futurism posturing than it once was and has virtually nothing to do with the act of a driving a car.

It's the reason that, within a few days of our Air arriving, it took real persuasion for me to get into the driver's seat of the Tesla again.

You should sell the Tesla and capitalize on the insane resale value of the Plaid.

 

[hmp10]

You should sell the Tesla and capitalize on the insane resale value of the Plaid.

Yeah, except that the Air can't stay out of the hands of a service tech long enough.

I keep telling myself, "calm down; we're still in the early days of EVs, we're still in the early days of EVS, we're still . . . . . . "

 

[CLTGT]

I will be very curious to see what your impression is after you get it back from service "this time". I have the 22nd marked on my calendar to look for your thoughts.

 

[hydbob]

Yeah, except that the Air can't stay out of the hands of a service tech long enough.

I keep telling myself, "calm down; we're still in the early days of EVs, we're still in the early days of EVS, we're still . . . . . . "

You still have your odyssey. Same as me!

 

[hmp10]

I will be very curious to see what your impression is after you get it back from service "this time". I have the 22nd marked on my calendar to look for your thoughts.

It may take a bit longer. Assuming I get the car back next week, it's scheduled to go to the radar installer on the 21st for a week in his shop.

The whole month of February will be a bust in terms of driving the Air.

 

[CLTGT]

Which system are you having installed?

 

[hmp10]

Radenso radar and laser detectors.

 

[AGTRAIN]

I had an interesting thought driving home last night in our Tesla. I had it in autopilot on the highway and I noticed that when I have it on autopilot I rest my right foot on the floor. Now I can imagine that if an emergency occurred, some people might end up pressing the wrong pedal and crashing. This led me to think that the pedal layout may need to be rethought in a world of self-driving or driver assist technology. The current pedal layout is ancient and it is based on manual transmission cars where your left foot handles the clutch, and your right foot toggles between throttle and brake.

In a world of autopilot, both your feet need a rest pedal. So ideally you would have the pedals further left, and toggle your right foot between rest pedal and throttle, and your left foot between rest pedal and brake. Since electric cars won't have clutches, there is no point saving space on the left for a clutch pedal.

Any thoughts on this?

You raise a couple of great points. I may be among the few who learned (from my Dad years ago) to drive using both feet — the left for the brake, the right for the accelerator. I find it works well with automatic transmission (definitely not for a clutch). Instinct takes over in any close calls and i brake immediately with the left; it also allows me to keep driving (say, uphill) while hovering my left over the brake if I sense a problem. So your suggestion makes total sense to me. I also agree that FSD is potentially dangerous so I use it only briefly: example, switching from glasses to sunglasses, plugging in a phone or anything that requires both hands for a moment. Besides, I prefer to drive my MS myself. It’s more fun and I find FSD to be frustratingly slow to do simple things like changing a lane. But FSD bothers me for another reason — on a two way road, it automatically centers me in the lane, but my instinct is to edge closer to the right side away from oncoming traffic. I can still hear my dad saying “play the odds” when I was learning. Ditto for passing a tractor trailer…I don’t want to be in the center of that lane, but a little farther away left or right.

 

[borski]

Radenso radar and laser detectors.

Do you have photos of your install? I’m trying to find a shop to do mine but the car is so sleek it’s hard to find mounting spots.

 

[hmp10]

Do you have photos of your install? I’m trying to find a shop to do mine but the car is so sleek it’s hard to find mounting spots.

It hasn't been installed yet. We hung the display/control unit of the Radenso just under the center screen of the Model S Plaid, but you're right that the Lucid offers no obvious location that doesn't spoil the sleekness of the dashboard layout.

For the Lucid, the installer (who has a 3D printer) is making a module to install on the upsweep on the underside of the dashboard to the left of the driver. The main downside of that location is that a front seat passenger can't help you notice an alert if you are distracted or music is playing too loudly. However, it's an easy location for the driver to see and reach, and a police officer wouldn't be able to see it even standing right at the car window.

 

[borski]

It hasn't been installed yet. We hung the display/control unit of the Radenso just under the center screen of the Model S Plaid, but you're right that the Lucid offers no obvious location that doesn't spoil the sleekness of the dashboard layout.

For the Lucid, the installer (who has a 3D printer) is making a module to install on the upsweep on the underside of the dashboard to the left of the driver. The main downside of that location is that a front seat passenger can't help you notice an alert if you are distracted or music is playing too loudly. However, it's an easy location for the driver to see and reach, and a police officer wouldn't be able to see it even standing right at the car window.

I’m extremely curious to see photos of where you land the lasers, and extremely curious to see the display unit on the dash - I’m having trouble finding a good way to do it.

 

[hmp10]

Here's where we put the control/display in the Tesla. (Cars with glass roofs pose a problem with reflections, hence the small "sunshade" over the display.)

The control/display is quite small. The surrounding case was built by the installer to take heavy bolts to mount the unit securely to the mount of the large screen without flexing when buttons are pushed.

The case to mount the control/display in the Lucid will have a much smaller frontal area, as its elongated rearward configuration following the contours under the dashboard will provide anchoring points behind the display.

 

[Pete44]

It may take a bit longer. Assuming I get the car back next week, it's scheduled to go to the radar installer on the 21st for a week in his shop.

The whole month of February will be a bust in terms of driving the Air.

@hmp10 , I’m almost afraid to ask. Assuming your car is back from radar installation (great pictures of install BTW), are your software glitches mostly fixed?

 

[hmp10]

@hmp10 , I’m almost afraid to ask. Assuming your car is back from radar installation (great pictures of install BTW), are your software glitches mostly fixed?

Mostly, yes. No more screen freezes. The only software issue I'm still having that doesn't seem to be among the general complaints is that the bass has dropped out again since the CCV module was replaced. Lucid is working on that.

We drove across the state to the Riviera Beach Service Center this morning for them to recalibrate the ADAS system -- particularly the lidar sensor -- after the radar/laser install. It took about an hour, and everything realigned easily. However, they found that the two small rubber airfoils that hang under the bumper just ahead of the front wheels had been knocked off, apparently by my pulling over curbs or concrete bump stops. The staff was both friendly and helpful. They waived the charge to recalibrate the ADAS system, even though it was my own doing that necessitated it. They also waived the labor to replace the airfoils. After years of paying exorbitant prices for replacements parts for my cars at dealers' counters, I assumed they would cost $50-100 apiece. Lucid did the whole job, including tax, for a whopping $24. I really find the service experience with Lucid thus far to be flawless.