Brand new Lucid owner, serious range concerns after first trip 2025 AT

I have never gotten anywhere near 500+ miles of range from my '23 air gt. driving at 70 mph on sunny 80 degree days in florida on 19 inch all season tires that are properly inflated. the stated epa range is not achievable at normal driving conditions
I took my GT up to Lake Ontario to see the total eclipse of the sun: I only used EA chargers. They are few and far-between when you get off the interstates / away from cities. Always had enough range, enough to skip chargers, which is really nice. I never believed the "500 miles" range anyway, but it is possible. Lucid is not lying about this. Nobody should run their batteries from 100% to 0%. It's hard not to burn off the line in these cars (fun too), but that kills range. So I say "yes 500 mile range on a GT is possible." I also say, " ... but at what cost?" I have fun driving this car = lots of fun. I still get more range than I can use. No worries mate.

I have never run the car below 10% SOC and usually top out at 80% I typically plug in limit set to 80% and run down to ~ 20%
= about 300 miles on my car, on the 19"s, driving with traffic flow. There is a significant drop in range if you drive 80+ mph.

Pretty comfortable margins too. I can't drive more than 2 hrs without stopping for an urgent haircut anyway.
Plus, I love walking up to my car when taking a rest stop. I still turn my head as I'm walking away. I love this car.
 
I have a GT from 2022 Oct. With the new battery pack during summer I get around 4. Need to check what I will get during winter wit the new pack. I have done 32K miles. With the old reaching 4 would be a lot of "managed" driving. Now it is more easily attainable with normal driving of 70miles, A/c 68, . 19' original tires still on the car.
 
Wow that’s great! My Touring is rated at 384, and I get about 270 based on my efficiency. (3 miles per kWh) And that’s trying to be efficient lol. So it appears your plaid is more efficient than my Touring 😢

A more apt comparison might be our Model S Plaid (1020 hp) to our Lucid Air Dream Performance (1111 hp), both on 21" wheels. At a sustained 80 mph (on cruise control) with multiple tests in near-identical conditions (same highway, dry weather in mid-80s, light traffic, and looped laps), our Air gets anywhere between 76-79% of its rated range, and our Plaid gets 72-74% of its rated range.

Leaving efficiency aside and given that the Plaid's rated range is 348 miles and the Air's is 451 miles, that translates to more than 100 extra miles of real-world road tripping range in the Air in the conditions stated.

In short, our Air Dream P beats the Plaid in efficiency and trounces it in actual range.
 
A more apt comparison might be our Model S Plaid (1020 hp) to our Lucid Air Dream Performance (1111 hp), both on 21" wheels. At a sustained 80 mph (on cruise control) with multiple tests in near-identical conditions (same highway, dry weather in mid-80s, light traffic, and looped laps), our Air gets anywhere between 76-79% of its rated range, and our Plaid gets 72-74% of its rated range.

Leaving efficiency aside and given that the Plaid's rated range is 348 miles and the Air's is 451 miles, that translates to more than 100 extra miles of real-world road tripping range in the Air in the conditions stated.

In short, our Air Dream P beats the Plaid in efficiency and trounces it in actual range.
First, thank you for sharing your Lucid/Tesla efficiency comparisons, very informative.

To broad-stroke it, both Lucid and Tesla rely on the less stringent EPA cycles to maximize their efficiency/range claims and, to a first order, have similar deviations when compared to "real-life" realizable ranges. That's to be expected.

As others have pointed out, even ICE cars deviate from their claimed efficiency and range.

In contrast, other EVs, notably the German EVs are much closer to their claimed efficiency and range. They often do better than their claims. To me, that's a better path.

I have been a long time EV advocate. In 1992, I relocated from Oregon to Arizona. Some of you might remember GM had (still has?) a test track in the Phoenix area. GM had electric cars (EV1) under test in AZ back then (1990s). You couldn't buy one, but you can lease one as part of the test program. There were several testers in my neighborhood. I wanted an electric car since. Truth in advertising....those early GM cars has very limited range (I think about 50-60 miles). But GM fooled around with a bunch of interesting ideas including wireless charging etc..

When I remodeled my house in AZ in 1998, I installed the necessary electrical infrastructure for multiple electric cars. I facilitated multiple drops for NEMA outlets and installed solar to have a zero electric bill. I was ready for EVs. But EVs were not ready for me.....I looked and looked, but there weren't anything worth buying, including Tesla. I finally bought a PHEV (Honda Clarity) in 2019. It was (still is, my son owns it now) a great car!

When the Lucid came along, I had a second home in the LA area as my son was enrolled in USC. The "commute" distance was almost exactly 400 miles, door-to-door. So, I thought the Lucid AGT (rated @516 miles range) will get me there without stopping to charge, even with some derating. Well, the AGT was never able to make that trip on the I-10 without stopping to charge!

I understand the nuances about the speed vs drag/efficiency, temperature, elevation change, etc. etc.. Nevertheless, I think you will agree that EVs are much more susceptible to some of these factors than ICE cars, especially temperature and elevation transitions.

As you've seen from many new EV/Lucid owners, they were surprised by the MAGNITUDE of the deviation in the achievable range. If you add up the highway speed, temperature, elevation deficits, it can be as much as a 50% range haircut (or more) on the claimed EV's range if you live in cold climates and drive fast with the heater on. To many, this is a shocker!

Inasmuch as we think we could, we are not going to change physics!

Hence, I think realistic specifications, education, careful planning, and informed metrologies are keys to EV ownership.

A large part of my beef with the unrealistic (note, I said unrealistic, I didn't say unachievable) EPA benchmarks used by Lucid and Tesla is because they are counter-productive. As evidenced by other EV manufacturers, choosing a more realistic EPA test cycle can better inform the EV owners.

At the risk of repeating my self and other owner's inputs, without changing physics (and win a Nobel Prize), the next best thing is to be informed about physics and how we manage/ mitigate range anxiety.

Simplistically, the notion of [1] the Remaining miles/SoC upon arrival AND [2] the "Real-Time" Efficiency Gauge (as implemented on the Rivian/Tesla). These metrologies inform the driver and enable the driver to make the necessary adjustments to manage range-anxiety.

Implementing these metrologies should be trivial. All the data is already there.
 
A more apt comparison might be our Model S Plaid (1020 hp) to our Lucid Air Dream Performance (1111 hp), both on 21" wheels. At a sustained 80 mph (on cruise control) with multiple tests in near-identical conditions (same highway, dry weather in mid-80s, light traffic, and looped laps), our Air gets anywhere between 76-79% of its rated range, and our Plaid gets 72-74% of its rated range.

Leaving efficiency aside and given that the Plaid's rated range is 348 miles and the Air's is 451 miles, that translates to more than 100 extra miles of real-world road tripping range in the Air in the conditions stated.

In short, our Air Dream P beats the Plaid in efficiency and trounces it in actual range.
In out of specs road tripping, with 75-80mph, the model s plaid was doing about 85% of its rated range and the lucid was 75% of its rated range.

Also I just want to confirm what you’re saying. Your plaid is rated at 3.5 miles/kw from the epa. If you’re claiming it’s doing 73% of rated range, does that mean that your lifetime average efficiency is 400Wh/mile? I don’t believe anyone’s model S does that poorly. Can you post a screenshot of your lifetime efficiency on both cars?
 
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In out of specs road tripping, with 75-80mph, the model s plaid was doing about 85% of its rated range and the lucid was 75% of its rated range.

Also I just want to confirm what you’re saying. Your plaid is rated at 3.5 miles/kw from the epa. If you’re claiming it’s doing 73% of rated range, does that mean that your lifetime average efficiency is 400Wh/mile? I don’t believe anyone’s model S does that poorly. Can you post a screenshot of your lifetime efficiency on both cars?

First, here are the EPA ratings on our two cars:

Screenshot 2024-12-07 at 11.26.30 PM.webp


Below are the energy usages of both cars. But there are several things to understand:

- My post was about the results of semi-controlled road tests we have done of both cars at 80 mph sustained speeds with me driving both cars. That is very different from the local driving we do the vast majority of the time. We've done these tests several times during our trips across the state. I've described these tests before: we run a 30-mile back-and-forth loop between the State Road 29 and Snake Road exits on a flat, straight stretch of I-75 (Alligator Alley) in dry weather with temps in the mid-80's, with the cruise control in each car set to 82 mph (a true 80 mph according to our radar detector GPS), with the A/C set to 72º, and music playing at a comfortable level. Tires on both cars are set to two pounds above recommended pressure (42 lbs in the Plaid and 44 lbs in the Air). We choose that strip of road because it carries light traffic well away from the congestion near the urban centers at either end of Alligator Alley. And we use highway mile markers to measure distance against the remaining range readouts in each car.

- The Air is our road tripper. We almost never take the Plaid on a road trip, due to its shorter range, choppier and noisier ride, and less roomy and comfortable seating. It hasn't been plugged into a Supercharger in over a year.

- I drive the Air almost exclusively (except on road trips), and my partner drives the Plaid almost exclusively. In fact, I have been in the Plaid only twice in the past few weeks when my partner was taking me to and from medical procedures. I have a heavy foot and am addicted to acceleration, sprinting away from traffic lights at every opportunity. I have the ticket record to prove it and have to put new tires on all my performance cars at 10-11,000 miles. My partner is a very conservative driver and has never gotten a traffic ticket. We changed the Plaid tires at just over 22,000 miles. In short, the two cars are driven very, very differently most of the time.

- My partner has never reset his trip odometer, so that screen reflects the full energy consumption history of the car. The Lucid has about 30,000 miles on it, too, but I could only find the screens for trips A and B, reflecting the past ~6600 miles.

In short, if you think this data impugns my claim that in controlled testing at highway speeds the Lucid performs better, it does not. Every post I have ever done about the relative efficiency of the two cars had to do with road tripping at typical highway speeds of ~80 mph.

I would also like to see a link to a Kyle Conner range test at 75-80 mph, as every one I've seen him do is at 70 mph. The only road tests I've seen at even 75 mph were by Car & Driver -- and their 75-mph road test of the Plaid saw 280 miles (80% of rated range), so I find it hard to believe Conner got 85% of rated range at speeds as high as 80 mph: In fact, the Car & Driver test results at 75 mph would be roughly consistent with our Plaid's efficiency dropping down a few more percentage points at 80 mph, as aerodynamic drag increases exponentially with speed.



Screenshot 2024-12-07 at 11.54.36 PM.webp

Screenshot 2024-12-07 at 11.54.51 PM.webp


The Lucid (rated at 3.9 mi/kWh) has averaged 2.99 mi/kWh, or 77% of its rating.

The Plaid (rated at 3.5 mi/kWh) has averaged 3.3 mi/kWh, or 94% of its rating.

That is entirely consistent with the different ways the two cars are driven, and those differences in the vast majority of driving do not carry over to the results of controlled testing at sustained highway speeds.
 
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Also I just want to confirm what you’re saying. Your plaid is rated at 3.5 miles/kw from the epa. If you’re claiming it’s doing 73% of rated range, does that mean that your lifetime average efficiency is 400Wh/mile?

I forgot to ask this question:

Why would you expect lifetime average efficiency to look anything like efficiency when driving at a sustained 80 mph, which is what I have been posting about? It's apples and oranges.
 
The Lucid (rated at 3.9 mi/kWh) has averaged 2.99 mi/kWh, or 77% of its rating.

The Plaid (rated at 3.5 mi/kWh) has averaged 3.3 mi/kWh, or 94% of its rating.

That is entirely consistent with the different ways the two cars are driven, and those differences in the vast majority of driving do not carry over to the results of controlled testing at sustained highway speeds.
Interesting analysis. Would be interesting to see if you swapped cars for a week how the results would differ. Given your different driving behaviors you are right. This doesn’t really tell us much.

With regards to the test, I’m talking about that big roadtrip bonanza OOS did with the lucid, taycan, model S, etc… they did not drive 70mph. They drove 75-80mph most of the trip. Averaged 3 miles/kw in the Plaid and 3.3 miles/kw in the 2025 GT over a few thousand miles. Which is a much smaller difference in highway speed efficiency compared to how the EPA rates them.
 
First, thank you for sharing your Lucid/Tesla efficiency comparisons, very informative.

To broad-stroke it, both Lucid and Tesla rely on the less stringent EPA cycles to maximize their efficiency/range claims and, to a first order, have similar deviations when compared to "real-life" realizable ranges. That's to be expected.

As others have pointed out, even ICE cars deviate from their claimed efficiency and range.

In contrast, other EVs, notably the German EVs are much closer to their claimed efficiency and range. They often do better than their claims. To me, that's a better path.

I have been a long time EV advocate. In 1992, I relocated from Oregon to Arizona. Some of you might remember GM had (still has?) a test track in the Phoenix area. GM had electric cars (EV1) under test in AZ back then (1990s). You couldn't buy one, but you can lease one as part of the test program. There were several testers in my neighborhood. I wanted an electric car since. Truth in advertising....those early GM cars has very limited range (I think about 50-60 miles). But GM fooled around with a bunch of interesting ideas including wireless charging etc..

When I remodeled my house in AZ in 1998, I installed the necessary electrical infrastructure for multiple electric cars. I facilitated multiple drops for NEMA outlets and installed solar to have a zero electric bill. I was ready for EVs. But EVs were not ready for me.....I looked and looked, but there weren't anything worth buying, including Tesla. I finally bought a PHEV (Honda Clarity) in 2019. It was (still is, my son owns it now) a great car!

When the Lucid came along, I had a second home in the LA area as my son was enrolled in USC. The "commute" distance was almost exactly 400 miles, door-to-door. So, I thought the Lucid AGT (rated @516 miles range) will get me there without stopping to charge, even with some derating. Well, the AGT was never able to make that trip on the I-10 without stopping to charge!

I understand the nuances about the speed vs drag/efficiency, temperature, elevation change, etc. etc.. Nevertheless, I think you will agree that EVs are much more susceptible to some of these factors than ICE cars, especially temperature and elevation transitions.

As you've seen from many new EV/Lucid owners, they were surprised by the MAGNITUDE of the deviation in the achievable range. If you add up the highway speed, temperature, elevation deficits, it can be as much as a 50% range haircut (or more) on the claimed EV's range if you live in cold climates and drive fast with the heater on. To many, this is a shocker!

Inasmuch as we think we could, we are not going to change physics!

Hence, I think realistic specifications, education, careful planning, and informed metrologies are keys to EV ownership.

A large part of my beef with the unrealistic (note, I said unrealistic, I didn't say unachievable) EPA benchmarks used by Lucid and Tesla is because they are counter-productive. As evidenced by other EV manufacturers, choosing a more realistic EPA test cycle can better inform the EV owners.

At the risk of repeating my self and other owner's inputs, without changing physics (and win a Nobel Prize), the next best thing is to be informed about physics and how we manage/ mitigate range anxiety.

Simplistically, the notion of [1] the Remaining miles/SoC upon arrival AND [2] the "Real-Time" Efficiency Gauge (as implemented on the Rivian/Tesla). These metrologies inform the driver and enable the driver to make the necessary adjustments to manage range-anxiety.

Implementing these metrologies should be trivial. All the data is already there.
Outstanding post!!!! Thank you!!
 
Interesting analysis. Would be interesting to see if you swapped cars for a week how the results would differ. Given your different driving behaviors you are right. This doesn’t really tell us much.

With regards to the test, I’m talking about that big roadtrip bonanza OOS did with the lucid, taycan, model S, etc… they did not drive 70mph. They drove 75-80mph most of the trip. Averaged 3 miles/kw in the Plaid and 3.3 miles/kw in the 2025 GT over a few thousand miles. Which is a much smaller difference in highway speed efficiency compared to how the EPA rates them.
Actually it is a very similar difference. The EPA rates them 12% apart (99 MPGe vs. 111 MPGe) on highway mileage and 3.0 vs. 3.3 miles / kw is 10% apart. That’s really saying essentially the same thing…on the highway the Licid is roughly 10% more efficient. Couple that with a larger battery pack and you get a significant real world range difference.
 
Why are these "range-deniers" so eager to post their ignorance ?

if you go fast, it costs. Duh. If you jack-rabbit start off a dead stop = it costs. Duh.

Cold weather, hills, headwinds, tire size and pressure.... duh, duh, duh, duh.

Enough. I get it. Most folk are dumb. No need to post about it, we can tell it when we see it.


Kyle tests range on the 2025 GT
( but he didn't read the manual, doesn't know how the key fob works, doesn't know how the mobile phone works, doesn't know how the seats work, ... I love the self-retracting driver's seat that Kyle ignores, and the driver profile that puts my seat in my preferred position when I get in ...
 
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I think our case with a Plaid and a Dream P is something not often seen: two high-powered EV sedans of similar size and aerodynamics, with both almost always driven on the same roads (wide, straight, flat) in the same climate (warm to hot, with cabin heaters never turned on). Except on road trips (which is always done in the Lucid), each car is driven almost exclusively by a certain driver. One driver has a very heavy foot, loves punching it, and tends to brake late. The other is very conservative, with a fear of encountering police that probably dates back to his early years in communist Poland. He watches speed limits very carefully, brakes so early that he usually has to reapply the throttle before reaching stopping position, and hard acceleration alarms him. (This is the reason we take the Air and I almost always drive on local trips, as his driving makes me want to jump out of my skin.)

The long-term efficiency number of these two cars -- both with around 30,000 miles on them and manufactured within months of each other -- shows just how extraordinarily sensitive EV range is to how the car is driven. The car driven conservatively (the Plaid) got around 94% of its EPA-rated range, and the one driven aggressively (the Air) got around 77% of its EPA-rated range.

But when that huge variable of driving style is removed and those same two cars are tested on a certain road in similar weather and traffic conditions and at the speed used for long-distance road tripping, the situation reverses somewhat. The Air gets closer to its rated range than the Plaid. I haven't yet looked at the Conner link, but highway range tests by most reviewers, including "Car & Driver", "Edmunds", and Tom Moloughney have yielded the same results as my own home-made road tests -- the Air gets more of its rated range at highway speeds than the Model S.

Actually, this sums up the tenor of several very long threads on this forum over the past three years: people who drive conservatively get very close to the EPA range of the Lucid Air over the long term; people who make use of the Air's power for thrills and giggles don't.

This outcome couldn't be better from my perspective. I can drive the Lucid Air the way I want to locally, as all our local charging is at home, and I couldn't care less what efficiency I'm getting. On a road trip, however, when roadside charging becomes a factor, I still want to drive at the steady speeds I am most comfortable (around 80 mph), and the Air facilitates that with more highway range than any other car on the road.
 
With regards to the test, I’m talking about that big roadtrip bonanza OOS did with the lucid, taycan, model S, etc… they did not drive 70mph. They drove 75-80mph most of the trip. Averaged 3 miles/kw in the Plaid and 3.3 miles/kw in the 2025 GT over a few thousand miles. Which is a much smaller difference in highway speed efficiency compared to how the EPA rates them.

That's interesting. The 3 mi/kWh vs. 3.3 mi/kWh difference Conner found is within spitting distance of the spread I found in my home-made road test: ~74% in the Plaid vs. ~78% in the Air.
 
3) I would literally pay someone money to bring me my DE right now over this GMC Acadia I’m in driving from GA -> FL -> CA.
What a low standard! What's next...a Yugo? After driving a Lucid Air DE sedan driving a massive underpowered truck across the country is true punishment. Was this a criminal sentencing alternative to jail? If yes...why did you choose it?
 
I think our case with a Plaid and a Dream P is something not often seen: two high-powered EV sedans of similar size and aerodynamics, with both almost always driven on the same roads (wide, straight, flat) in the same climate (warm to hot, with cabin heaters never turned on). Except on road trips (which is always done in the Lucid), each car is driven almost exclusively by a certain driver. One driver has a very heavy foot, loves punching it, and tends to brake late. The other is very conservative, with a fear of encountering police that probably dates back to his early years in communist Poland. He watches speed limits very carefully, brakes so early that he usually has to reapply the throttle before reaching stopping position, and hard acceleration alarms him. (This is the reason we take the Air and I almost always drive on local trips, as his driving makes me want to jump out of my skin.)

The long-term efficiency number of these two cars -- both with around 30,000 miles on them and manufactured within months of each other -- shows just how extraordinarily sensitive EV range is to how the car is driven. The car driven conservatively (the Plaid) got around 94% of its EPA-rated range, and the one driven aggressively (the Air) got around 77% of its EPA-rated range.

But when that huge variable of driving style is removed and those same two cars are tested on a certain road in similar weather and traffic conditions and at the speed used for long-distance road tripping, the situation reverses somewhat. The Air gets closer to its rated range than the Plaid. I haven't yet looked at the Conner link, but highway range tests by most reviewers, including "Car & Driver", "Edmunds", and Tom Moloughney have yielded the same results as my own home-made road tests -- the Air gets more of its rated range at highway speeds than the Model S.

Actually, this sums up the tenor of several very long threads on this forum over the past three years: people who drive conservatively get very close to the EPA range of the Lucid Air over the long term; people who make use of the Air's power for thrills and giggles don't.

This outcome couldn't be better from my perspective. I can drive the Lucid Air the way I want to locally, as all our local charging is at home, and I couldn't care less what efficiency I'm getting. On a road trip, however, when roadside charging becomes a factor, I still want to drive at the steady speeds I am most comfortable (around 80 mph), and the Air facilitates that with more highway range than any other car on the road.
I think our case with a Plaid and a Dream P is something not often seen: two high-powered EV sedans of similar size and aerodynamics, with both almost always driven on the same roads (wide, straight, flat) in the same climate (warm to hot, with cabin heaters never turned on). Except on road trips (which is always done in the Lucid), each car is driven almost exclusively by a certain driver. One driver has a very heavy foot, loves punching it, and tends to brake late. The other is very conservative, with a fear of encountering police that probably dates back to his early years in communist Poland. He watches speed limits very carefully, brakes so early that he usually has to reapply the throttle before reaching stopping position, and hard acceleration alarms him. (This is the reason we take the Air and I almost always drive on local trips, as his driving makes me want to jump out of my skin.)

The long-term efficiency number of these two cars -- both with around 30,000 miles on them and manufactured within months of each other -- shows just how extraordinarily sensitive EV range is to how the car is driven. The car driven conservatively (the Plaid) got around 94% of its EPA-rated range, and the one driven aggressively (the Air) got around 77% of its EPA-rated range.

But when that huge variable of driving style is removed and those same two cars are tested on a certain road in similar weather and traffic conditions and at the speed used for long-distance road tripping, the situation reverses somewhat. The Air gets closer to its rated range than the Plaid. I haven't yet looked at the Conner link, but highway range tests by most reviewers, including "Car & Driver", "Edmunds", and Tom Moloughney have yielded the same results as my own home-made road tests -- the Air gets more of its rated range at highway speeds than the Model S.

Actually, this sums up the tenor of several very long threads on this forum over the past three years: people who drive conservatively get very close to the EPA range of the Lucid Air over the long term; people who make use of the Air's power for thrills and giggles don't.

This outcome couldn't be better from my perspective. I can drive the Lucid Air the way I want to locally, as all our local charging is at home, and I couldn't care less what efficiency I'm getting. On a road trip, however, when roadside charging becomes a factor, I still want to drive at the steady speeds I am most comfortable (around 80 mph), and the Air facilitates that with more highway range than any other car on the road.
I think you captured the essence of it. The driver's demeanor has a significant impact on the achievable range on long road trips.

Unlike many of you, I bought my AGT for the range, not for the power and acceleration. I drive conservatively. That said, my experience still shows the AGT has a significant (20%+) deviation against its EPA rated range when driving 70-75mph on I-10 and I-5.

As I mentioned in my post, I found the "real-time" Efficiency Meter" on my R1S (driving the same route) very informative. In spite of the much lower EPA range and efficiency of the R1S when compared to the AGT, I can routinely get better than the EPA rating on the R1S. At 70 mph on a road trip, I can approach 2.4-2.5 mi/kWh (moderate temperature, minimal elevation change). If I had the same metrology on my AGT, I think I can probably improve my AGT range by a few percentage points.
 
What a low standard! What's next...a Yugo? After driving a Lucid Air DE sedan driving a massive underpowered truck across the country is true punishment. Was this a criminal sentencing alternative to jail? If yes...why did you choose it?
A Yugo might have been better. The other options were worse.

Rent from Hertz in Atlanta, they said. You have President’s Circle, they said, whatever that is. Pick any car in the lot, they said.

Turns out Hertz Atlanta had 3 7-seater SUVs. This was the best one. Yuck.

(Needed the size for the cedar chest. Wished for a Gravity the whole time)
 
Also, keep the tires inflated to the max posted air pressure. I see significant reduction in range if they are not.
 
I'm seeing a 50% reduction in range this winter. Now I actually have range anxiety 😬.
 
I'm seeing a 50% reduction in range this winter. Now I actually have range anxiety 😬.
Same, my mi/kwh is down significantly, car does not like to be slowly driven in 20 DEG F weather, majority of the energy is getting used to heat butts and hands....A series of links, I like the chart curves, but the EPA 5-cycle also runs scenarios with a lot of HVAC disabled which seems to be kind of edge case...



 
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