Any Lucid owners who are previously Tesla owners? Curious about your thoughts on your experience and if you prefer Lucid

[Brad Carlson]

You are moving the goalposts. You said the 2.0 release didn’t address any of your issues; I explained that it clearly does.

2.0 is a complete rewrite of the software, and they did the right thing by not focusing on releasing features on the old stack and instead focusing on releasing them with the new one, so that they didn’t have to write the features twice. Also, it is clearly not just big fixes; as you’ll see with the eventual release notes, there are a massive amount of new features, including but not limited to Highway Assist, nav guidance on the center cockpit panel, improved Alexa, high beam assist, headlight leveling (and significant other headlight improvements), and many others. All of that is *on top of* mobile key and fobs working flawlessly, a many orders of magnitude speed increase, etc.

CarPlay is effectively done and awaiting Apple approval, based on my understanding. There is nothing Lucid can do to expedite that as Apple’s process is Apple’s process. They won’t release Android Auto without CarPlay being ready so as not to upset a large swath of their users. Again: nothing Lucid can do except push forward on that.

Can we please stop talking about Sirius/XM? They have never, ever promised it, and while I understand you wish there were an antenna on the roof, there isn’t, wasn’t, and will never be, and that is *certainly* not something that could have been added or fixed via an OTA update.

So, by your original goalposts (and even some of your new ones), I suspect you’ll be thrilled with the 2.0 release.

Thank you for your reply. I didn’t move the goalposts for 2.0. I think a lot of us thought it would include Apple CarPlay. I didn’t say it didn’t address issues also known as bugs. Is there anything that is in 2.0 that isn’t in every new car already? If I were an IT manager and you came to me and said we released 1.0 but we need to completely rewrite it, I would think there is something radically wrong. An antenna on the roof is not just about Sirius/XM. It’s about better cellular reception. We can stop talking about Sirius/XM (what new car doesn’t have it?). All of the apps depend upon cellular. And there’s no antenna on the roof. Sorry, I find it hard to believe that Apple is the hold up for CarPlay. Really? You think it’s Apple’s fault? If Lucid has a working CarPlay release, there is no reason for Apple to hold it up. To me that means Lucid doesn’t have a working CarPlay release. I will be happy with 2.0. And I can still wish for a lot more.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Thank you for your reply. I didn’t move the goalposts for 2.0. I think a lot of us thought it would include Apple CarPlay. I didn’t say it didn’t address issues also known as bugs. Is there anything that is in 2.0 that isn’t in every new car already? If I were an IT manager and you came to me and said we released 1.0 but we need to completely rewrite it, I would think there is something radically wrong. An antenna on the roof is not just about Sirius/XM. It’s about better cellular reception. We can stop talking about Sirius/XM (what new car doesn’t have it?). All of the apps depend upon cellular. And there’s no antenna on the roof. Sorry, I find it hard to believe that Apple is the hold up for CarPlay. Really? You think it’s Apple’s fault? If Lucid has a working CarPlay release, there is no reason for Apple to hold it up. To me that means Lucid doesn’t have a working CarPlay release. I will be happy with 2.0. And I can still wish for a lot more.

Apple products need compliance review and approval. There is a long line for Apple approval committee, it’s public knowledge. Their apps have to be consistent with design guideline, upon failure of approval, they must revise, recode and go back to end of line to wait again. They also review contents of app to make sure no IP theft and excessive repeated product on shelf for SPAM.

So it doesn’t just take time to code, but also have to deal with bureaucracy. But once you are approved, you will be coasting in the future. Polestar 2 has Android based system using Google, took them 29 months since debut of their car to release Apple CarPlay.

 

[borski]

I didn’t move the goalposts for 2.0. I think a lot of us thought it would include Apple CarPlay. I didn’t say it didn’t address issues also known as bugs.

You literally said:

I don’t have 2.0 but it seems none of what I wanted has been delivered.

That directly implies that it didn’t address any issues you cared about, and I listed many it did address that you had mentioned.

If I were an IT manager and you came to me and said we released 1.0 but we need to completely rewrite it, I would think there is something radically wrong.

There was something radically wrong. That’s why they chose to take the radical step of rewriting it, along with switching out much of the exec team and hiring new software leads and engineers. That’s literally what happened.

It’s precisely the same choice I would have made, and I say this as a former founder and CTO.

An antenna on the roof is not just about Sirius/XM. It’s about better cellular reception. We can stop talking about Sirius/XM (what new car doesn’t have it?). All of the apps depend upon cellular. And there’s no antenna on the roof.

Technology has progressed and now we know how to make antennas small enough that they can even fit inside the phone, or inside the car.

But there is more to it. Actually, older phones with extruding antennas had better performing antennas. But the density of cells (towers) has increased greatly. Since now you are much closer to the tower, your phone (and car) can use less power and allows for a less efficient (but again, much lower power) antenna. Modern phones (and cars) support a wide range of frequency bands. To handle this and to cope with the detuning effect of the hand or the head or the glass, they include multiple antennas. Some antennas can even be tuned electronically on-the-fly to compensate for these effects.

All of which is to say: there is very little issue with the cellular reception in the vehicle. The cutouts that people complain about (including me, preciously) are likely the result of concurrency issues and buffering issues, and not network connectivity.

Furthermore, there was never an antenna on the roof, and Sirius/XM was never promised.

Sorry, I find it hard to believe that Apple is the hold up for CarPlay. Really? You think it’s Apple’s fault? If Lucid has a working CarPlay release, there is no reason for Apple to hold it up. To me that means Lucid doesn’t have a working CarPlay release.

Sorry, but whether you find it hard to believe bears no relevance to the facts. Apple, at present, is the hold up. This is not uncommon or even bad; this happens for apps one releases to the App Store just as much as CarPlay review. There are countless complaints about it from developers, regularly.

The upside of the “walled garden” of Apple is that everything that eventually gets released passes muster and is generally solid all around, with much less spam compared to, say, the Google Play Store.

The downside? It can take a long time to get things approved.

And I can still wish for a lot more.

And I wish I had a unicorn! But we have to be realistic with our expectations, and remember that perfect is the enemy of progress. The latest software is a massive, Herculean improvement, and it’s important to remember that Rome wasn’t built in a day.

 

[Snafu]

And I wish I had a unicorn! But we have to be realistic with our expectations, and remember that perfect is the enemy of progress. The latest software is a massive, Herculean improvement, and it’s important to remember that Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Yesterday I spent four hours touring the back roads of New Hampshire, amazed at the colors of the Fall foliage and completely satisfied by the comfort, power, and ride of the car. Living where I do, I will never have perfect reception, either via a SiriusXM antenna or cellphone service which can roam on any available network (or combination of both). I enjoyed the ride, scenery and songs when I could hear them and enjoyed the ride and scenery when I couldn't.

 

[joec]

Sorry, but whether you find it hard to believe bears no relevance to the facts. Apple, at present, is the hold up. This is not uncommon or even bad; this happens for apps one releases to the App Store just as much as CarPlay review. There are countless complaints about it from developers, regularly.

I can vouch for this. Also, what he said about the benefits along with the downsides to having to be approved. For all my frustrations with Apple review, they have stopped me from shipping a few major blunders.

When CarPlay does arrive, I have every expectation it will not be flaky or poorly implemented. There may be some constraints, due to the current version and what it was designed to do. But it will be solid.

 

[Brad Carlson]

You literally said:

That directly implies that it didn’t address any issues you cared about, and I listed many it did address that you had mentioned.


There was something radically wrong. That’s why they chose to take the radical step of rewriting it, along with switching out much of the exec team and hiring new software leads and engineers. That’s literally what happened.

It’s precisely the same choice I would have made, and I say this as a former founder and CTO.


Technology has progressed and now we know how to make antennas small enough that they can even fit inside the phone, or inside the car.

But there is more to it. Actually, older phones with extruding antennas had better performing antennas. But the density of cells (towers) has increased greatly. Since now you are much closer to the tower, your phone (and car) can use less power and allows for a less efficient (but again, much lower power) antenna. Modern phones (and cars) support a wide range of frequency bands. To handle this and to cope with the detuning effect of the hand or the head or the glass, they include multiple antennas. Some antennas can even be tuned electronically on-the-fly to compensate for these effects.

All of which is to say: there is very little issue with the cellular reception in the vehicle. The cutouts that people complain about (including me, preciously) are likely the result of concurrency issues and buffering issues, and not network connectivity.

Furthermore, there was never an antenna on the roof, and Sirius/XM was never promised.


Sorry, but whether you find it hard to believe bears no relevance to the facts. Apple, at present, is the hold up. This is not uncommon or even bad; this happens for apps one releases to the App Store just as much as CarPlay review. There are countless complaints about it from developers, regularly.

The upside of the “walled garden” of Apple is that everything that eventually gets released passes muster and is generally solid all around, with much less spam compared to, say, the Google Play Store.

The downside? It can take a long time to get things approved.


And I wish I had a unicorn! But we have to be realistic with our expectations, and remember that perfect is the enemy of progress. The latest software is a massive, Herculean improvement, and it’s important to remember that Rome wasn’t built in a day.

You’re right, that was a stupid statement.
You agreed that Lucid had major software and personnel problems.
I don’t know how you can say “there is very little issue with the cellular reception in the vehicle” when “concurrency issues and buffering issues” are connectivity issues.
You agreed that Lucid doesn’t have a working version of CarPlay that Apple will approve.
I didn’t buy a unicorn and I hope 2.0 is as good as you say.

 

[Cat Daddy]

Has anyone been able to find all season tires for 21” wheels HL EV rated? Summer tires are useless in the winter which is what my GT came with. Not recommended below 40 degrees or in snow. I don’t want 19” wheels!

 

[muhanadkais]

Has anyone been able to find all season tires for 21” wheels HL EV rated? Summer tires are useless in the winter which is what my GT came with. Not recommended below 40 degrees or in snow. I don’t want 19” wheels!

I think it is needed to be replaced if you live in a cold state. I would suggest you to search base on the original tire dimensions (listed in the manual or on the tire itself). May I ask about how comfort these 21” wheels are while driving. Do you feel the suspension stiffer with these?

 

[borski]

You’re right, that was a stupid statement.

Didn't say stupid, said it was moving the goalposts. Mistakes happen, and everyone falls prey to logical fallacies sometimes.

You agreed that Lucid had major software and personnel problems.

Yes, key word: had.

I don’t know how you can say “there is very little issue with the cellular reception in the vehicle” when “concurrency issues and buffering issues” are connectivity issues.

This is incorrect. The cellular reception is fine. The concurrency and buffering issues have nothing to do with the antenna or reception; they have everything to do with the fact that the old software is running on a VM and mistakes were made when writing it.

You don't have to trust me, but 'cellular reception' is not in any way related to concurrency or buffering issues / memory management.

You agreed that Lucid doesn’t have a working version of CarPlay that Apple will approve.

Once again, you are moving the goalposts. You said it didn't have a working version of CarPlay, and/or that Apple wasn't the hold up. It does, you just don't have access to it yet, because it is held up in the Apple approval process. For all we know, it works perfectly and is in queue for Apple to approve it, or potentially find some other random issue they want fixed first. The issue is that you don't get to 'skip the line' for subsequent approval requests, just like in the App Store when you build an app.

I didn’t buy a unicorn and I hope 2.0 is as good as you say.

No, you bought a first generation vehicle from a brand new car company, and I suspect you'll be very happy with 2.0.

I'm not saying Lucid never made mistakes; they made plenty. I am saying that they have spent a lot of time and effort working on fixing those same mistakes, and that ignoring that is sticking your head in the sand for the sake of continuing to try and be upset at the cost of appreciating significant progress.

Instead of intentionally trying to find new things to complain about, consider trying 2.0 and seeing how you feel after that, but go into with an open mind. Have a nice weekend.

 

[LucidDropkick]

You’re right, that was a stupid statement.
You agreed that Lucid had major software and personnel problems.
I don’t know how you can say “there is very little issue with the cellular reception in the vehicle” when “concurrency issues and buffering issues” are connectivity issues.
You agreed that Lucid doesn’t have a working version of CarPlay that Apple will approve.
I didn’t buy a unicorn and I hope 2.0 is as good as you say.

What exactly are you accomplishing here? What is it you feel you are adding to the forum with these comments? Do you actually hope 2.0 is good? Or do you just want everyone here to be aware of your complaints with the software as is?

You had specific problems with the software and almost all of them have specifically been addressed. You don't have it yet, but you will soon. It won't fix every issue you have and it may bring new ones, but the trajectory is moving forward and that appears to be something you don't want to accept.

There isn't even really an argument here. Time is linear, and the updates are not only coming, but for some of us, are already here. You can choose to stay fixed in this point in time, or you can join the rest of us in constructive (and critical) conversation that actually provides useful discussion.

Otherwise, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No amount of "We hear you" is going to satisfy you.

 

[Brad Carlson]

Having honest critique and liking my car is not sticking my head in the sand. I want it to be better. 1.2.21 has numerous problems.
“The old software is running on VM and mistakes were made.” You agree the software was bad and you have insight as to why. If you think they’ve gotten rid of VM and the apps work much better in 2.0, great. I can’t wait to get 2.0.
I’m pretty sure Apple approves Apps that are ready for release and doesn‘t approve Apps that are not ready for release. To think it’s an Apple problem is a much better example of sticking your head in the sand.

 

[Bobby]

Having honest critique and liking my car is not sticking my head in the sand. I want it to be better. 1.2.21 has numerous problems.
“The old software is running on VM and mistakes were made.” You agree the software was bad and you have insight as to why. If you think they’ve gotten rid of VM and the apps work much better in 2.0, great. I can’t wait to get 2.0.
I’m pretty sure Apple approves Apps that are ready for release and doesn‘t approve Apps that are not ready for release. To think it’s an Apple problem is a much better example of sticking your head in the sand.

I own an app development company. The Apple review process can be extensive, exhausting, and sometimes frustrating. You just have to keep in mind that Apple is very guarded about their ecosystem and wants everything to work THEIR way. This is not necessarily a bad thing. And it doesn’t matter what we think of it, it is the reality.

To buy a first year vehicle from a brand new company will involve these growing pains. I am not making excuses for Lucid, just citing a reality. If this is the kind of thing that’s difficult to stomach, you should stick with a more established manufacturer, and a vehicle with a longer track record.

The blame game runs rampant on this forum, constantly citing how much the car costs and how it has not met individuals’ expectations. This should be part of the research process before purchasing. If your expectations are lofty, give the car a year two to mature instead of becoming an early adopter. It’s a good time to look in the mirror and understand yourself.

As a get older, I realize that placing blame, especially on people who you have never met, can only give you a momentary feeling of triumph. It doesn’t last. Helping somebody fix something without judgment or blame is much more personally gratifying. I want nothing more than this company to succeed given their excellent product. I will not put my “head in the sand” but I will certainly not post empty, inflammatory, armchair-quarterback comments on an internet forum where my only goal is to hide behind my keyboard and achieve a fleeting moment of empty satisfaction.

 

[Brad Carlson]

What exactly are you accomplishing here? What is it you feel you are adding to the forum with these comments? Do you actually hope 2.0 is good? Or do you just want everyone here to be aware of your complaints with the software as is?

You had specific problems with the software and almost all of them have specifically been addressed. You don't have it yet, but you will soon. It won't fix every issue you have and it may bring new ones, but the trajectory is moving forward and that appears to be something you don't want to accept.

There isn't even really an argument here. Time is linear, and the updates are not only coming, but for some of us, are already here. You can choose to stay fixed in this point in time, or you can join the rest of us in constructive (and critical) conversation that actually provides useful discussion.

Otherwise, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No amount of "We hear you" is going to satisfy you.

What exactly are you accomplishing here? This is a forum where honest critique should be judged on the merits. I like my car and I hope 2.0 is great. Attacking me doesn’t serve any purpose.

 

[Bus Driver]

I own an app development company. The Apple review process can be extensive, exhausting, and sometimes frustrating. You just have to keep in mind that Apple is very guarded about their ecosystem and wants everything to work THEIR way. This is not necessarily a bad thing. And it doesn’t matter what we think of it, it is the reality.

To buy a first year vehicle from a brand new company will involve these growing pains. I am not making excuses for Lucid, just citing a reality. If this is the kind of thing that’s difficult to stomach, you should stick with a more established manufacturer, and a vehicle with a longer track record.

The blame game runs rampant on this forum, constantly citing how much the car costs and how it has not met individuals’ expectations. This should be part of the research process before purchasing. If your expectations are lofty, give the car a year two to mature instead of becoming an early adopter. It’s a good time to look in the mirror and understand yourself.

As a get older, I realize that placing blame, especially on people who you have never met, can only give you a momentary feeling of triumph. It doesn’t last. Helping somebody fix something without judgment or blame is much more personally gratifying. I want nothing more than this company to succeed given their excellent product. I will not put my “head in the sand” but I will certainly not post empty, inflammatory, armchair-quarterback comments on an internet forum where my only goal is to hide behind my keyboard and achieve a fleeting moment of empty satisfaction.

As well as agreeing with your sentiments, I particularly appreciate your correct and apt use of the apostrophe and the comma. Thank you.

 

[Brad Carlson]

I own an app development company. The Apple review process can be extensive, exhausting, and sometimes frustrating. You just have to keep in mind that Apple is very guarded about their ecosystem and wants everything to work THEIR way. This is not necessarily a bad thing. And it doesn’t matter what we think of it, it is the reality.

To buy a first year vehicle from a brand new company will involve these growing pains. I am not making excuses for Lucid, just citing a reality. If this is the kind of thing that’s difficult to stomach, you should stick with a more established manufacturer, and a vehicle with a longer track record.

The blame game runs rampant on this forum, constantly citing how much the car costs and how it has not met individuals’ expectations. This should be part of the research process before purchasing. If your expectations are lofty, give the car a year two to mature instead of becoming an early adopter. It’s a good time to look in the mirror and understand yourself.

As a get older, I realize that placing blame, especially on people who you have never met, can only give you a momentary feeling of triumph. It doesn’t last. Helping somebody fix something without judgment or blame is much more personally gratifying. I want nothing more than this company to succeed given their excellent product. I will not put my “head in the sand” but I will certainly not post empty, inflammatory, armchair-quarterback comments on an internet forum where my only goal is to hide behind my keyboard and achieve a fleeting moment of empty satisfaction.

I agree we are early adopters and should expect growing pains. I don’t think honest criticism should be muted. Wanting a great car to be better is not wrong. Your last sentence is a doozy. None of it is true, but it’s a doozy.

 

[Bobby]

I agree we are early adopters and should expect growing pains. I don’t think honest criticism should be muted. Wanting a great car to be better is not wrong. Your last sentence is a doozy. None of it is true, but it’s a doozy.

Yes, upon rereading it I realize it sounds a little bit too strong. My apologies. As we used to say years ago, “I owe you a beer.” This car is as much a computer as it is a car and we all have to give Lucid a little bit of growing room. I think they have earned it. Have a great Friday and let’s hope that 2.0 gives us both much joy!

 

[Bbq9]

Having honest critique and liking my car is not sticking my head in the sand. I want it to be better. 1.2.21 has numerous problems.
“The old software is running on VM and mistakes were made.” You agree the software was bad and you have insight as to why. If you think they’ve gotten rid of VM and the apps work much better in 2.0, great. I can’t wait to get 2.0.
I’m pretty sure Apple approves Apps that are ready for release and doesn‘t approve Apps that are not ready for release. To think it’s an Apple problem is a much better example of sticking your head in the sand.

due process and number of apps being audited - takes time - and a company like Apple or Google will not be rushed, their brand will take a hit if the quality misses the mark (as Google continue to experience)

Yes, been in that said queue

 

[borski]

Having honest critique and liking my car is not sticking my head in the sand. I want it to be better. 1.2.21 has numerous problems.
“The old software is running on VM and mistakes were made.” You agree the software was bad and you have insight as to why. If you think they’ve gotten rid of VM and the apps work much better in 2.0, great. I can’t wait to get 2.0.
I’m pretty sure Apple approves Apps that are ready for release and doesn‘t approve Apps that are not ready for release. To think it’s an Apple problem is a much better example of sticking your head in the sand.

You were not posting an honest critique, but posting inflammatory comments stating that “nothing you care about was fixed,” which I pointed out wasn’t true, at which point you started pivoting to general commentary about “the software was bad in 1.0” which nobody ever disagreed with.

I’m glad you can’t wait to get 2.0. I’m certain you’ll like it.

Apple denies apps for any number of reasons, not always logical or reasonable.

Here is some good reading material:

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2020/06/19/swisher-app-store-hey (and Gruber loves Apple!)

Airfoil Speakers Touch 1.0.1 Finally Ships

Visit the Rogue Amoeba blog to read more.

weblog.rogueamoeba.com

Just another App Store rejection story

UPDATE May 13, 2021: The super nice team at OGS has decided to implement Sign In with Apple on their site so I can avoid this issue in the future. UPDATE April 07, 2021: Shortly after this article was published, Apple sent me a message saying they will review the app again, then they approved it...

world.hey.com

sreegs

alright let's talk about Apple and Tumblr's current predicament. If you don't know already, I used to work at Tumblr as an iOS engineer. Though I keep in touch with current staff at Tumblr (what lit…

www.tumblr.com

There are countless others. My point is if you have never had experience writing an application and having to deal with Apple’s black box and often arbitrary approval process, you should listen to those who have had experience with said process.

At this point, I think it would be beneficial simply to agree to disagree, and let things stand. I hope this can be the end of this particular topic of discussion. Have a nice weekend.

 

[SDHacker]

I’m pretty sure Apple approves Apps that are ready for release and doesn‘t approve Apps that are not ready for release. To think it’s an Apple problem is a much better example of sticking your head in the sand.

What you're failing to acknowledge is that there is a queue. You don't submit for approval and get a quick response. New apps and revisions are constantly being submitted and it takes Apple time to process the queue.

This discussion really points out the dissatisfaction that can be experienced when you take a specific point in time look at any "software defined" item. It's not like hardware - either the car has massage seats/window shades or it doesn't and once you own the car, it never will (unless you are willing to shell out the bucks for aftermarket mods). But a software defined item is not black and white. It can be added, modified, and deleted. Lucid is showing this by adding features/functionality, modifying existing features (like removing the "thunk" when brake hold is released) but I haven't noticed any deletions yet. The Air is evolving and people's opinions of the car will change with the further development of the software defined car. There is a legitimate argument that 1.0.4 should not have been the starting point in this evolution but that's where they decided to start. Now, it's a question of how quickly they can provide a stable environment that is fast and can be the platform they introduce all the goodies people want.

I didn't do an in-depth reading of Brad's dissatisfaction but a large part of it seems to be the lack of carplay in 2.0. The problem with that is Brad is the one that placed the expectation of having carplay in the new release. No one promised it would be there, some just hoped it would. Would he be as disappointed if he didn't put that expectation in place?

 

[muhanadkais]

I found the wireless charger is useless with iPhone Pro Max and I have push it and damage the leather case of the phone without any results of charging! I personally did not like the center console of Lucid. Once you slide that cover out, you will find all cheap scratched plastic underneath!