5.0 miles/kWh: Say Hello to the World's Most Efficient Car

I clearly hear wind noise from the driver's side mirror at 50+ mph. But I think it is noticeable because the road noise is so low. The NVH / road noise in this car is the lowest I ever had, hence you will hear every other little thing. Beats the Lexus LS, 7 Series, the S Class, trashes the Panamera. I owned them all (recent models) and I'm also somewhat obsessed with NVH.
I had this too, right up until my 1-year service last Friday. The great tech Emerson here in Seattle had me roll the window down, and sure enough the short vertical external weather seal at the front edge had a fold in it halfway down. Problem solved! Maybe yours is that simple too.
 
It's funny to watch Fanboys in this forum cheer for advancements that they do not and cannot have in their own Lucid. I do not appreciate that my 2023 Lucid "car of the future" does not have the computing power to make some of the features I have more functional or deliver new cool stuff that we keep hearing is coming.
 
I too have noticed a tendency of shutting down / dismiss the "complainers", but it's understandable. Not many people can be objective, especially when they sunk a lot of money in something. You criticize my car, hence criticize my decision, hence you criticize me, and guess what? I have the powa' fool!!! Muahaha! :) They can suspend me, I couldn't care less - if that's the kind of forum they want to have where everyone sings Kumbaya and commune with nature.

On a more serious note, I think there are ways to communicate your unhappy feelings, without creating much of a fuss. Here's for hoping!
This is simply untrue. Full stop. Unlike other forums I’ve frequented over the years, on a variety of topics, there is considerable leeway given posters here. I can’t recall any poster being suspended or ‘shut down’ for simply complaining about issues with their car…and at times there has been a lot of complaining. Yes, on rare occasions I’ve seen threads shut down after the same complaint is registered 100 times or the thread veers way off topic. In those cases these threads simply get boring for the reader and the value of the thread plummets.
 
I do not appreciate that my 2023 Lucid "car of the future" does not have the computing power to make some of the features I have more functional or deliver new cool stuff that we keep hearing is coming.
That would make a lot of sense, except Lucid never even said that your car didn't have the computing power to deliver the promised features. You literally heard the announcement, made up an issue, and got angry over it...
 
It's funny to watch Fanboys in this forum cheer for advancements that they do not and cannot have in their own Lucid. I do not appreciate that my 2023 Lucid "car of the future" does not have the computing power to make some of the features I have more functional or deliver new cool stuff that we keep hearing is coming.
This is a scenario where the computing power is likely already there for all the promised features. Engineers rarely utilize 100% of the hardware available in an efficient manner. This is an industry wide problem from my experience due to things not relevant to this thread.

Hardware made an incredible leap in efficiency per core and sheer number of cores around November 23' thanks to AMD.

We are now seeing AMD producing 96 core Threadrippers. Stability and efficiency have also been greatly enhanced for AMD's lineup since the release of the car. Intel has not been spectacular and floundering in the CPU space in the last couple of years with severe instability reported for commercial grade chips in servers in the tech community spaces.

Why do I bring what appears to be an irrelevant piece into this thread? Hardware moves on and continues to push the boundaries. Chips, motherboards, and drivers have a shelf life before manufacturers stop supporting them. From my perspective, Lucid has jumped on the latest hardware for the longest support in their cars for likely the same price paid for the original hardware given the most recent advancements. This is what I would call "free marketing" of "more power = better" (again, existing computing power is unlikely to be utilized 100% or even efficiently) and extending support for the newer cars from chip manufacturers.
 
This is simply untrue. Full stop. Unlike other forums I’ve frequented over the years, on a variety of topics, there is considerable leeway given posters here. I can’t recall any poster being suspended or ‘shut down’ for simply complaining about issues with their car…and at times there has been a lot of complaining. Yes, on rare occasions I’ve seen threads shut down after the same complaint is registered 100 times or the thread veers way off topic. In those cases these threads simply get boring for the reader and the value of the thread plummets.
I, personally, will be the first to admit that I complain... a lot. But I try to do it in a constructive way or at the very least an objective way. I have not once been banned here but the key is the delivery. I do agree that at one point the forum was a little more hostile towards negative comments but I think over time has lightened up and accepted some of the shortcomings of the vehicle. Just wanted to say, as long as your being respectful with your opinions, there won't be problems. Many may disagree with you but I personally enjoy the light banter back and fourth to hear different opinions than mine. Its never personal thus it should never be a personal attack (this is what will get you banned).
 
It's funny to watch Fanboys in this forum cheer for advancements that they do not and cannot have in their own Lucid. I do not appreciate that my 2023 Lucid "car of the future" does not have the computing power to make some of the features I have more functional or deliver new cool stuff that we keep hearing is coming.

You apparently don't have much experience with modern cars, or even modern electronics, for that matter. I have owned Teslas since 2015 and seen their computer hardware become outdated more than once. The MCU in our first Tesla, a 2015 P90D, ran out of memory and lost some functionality -- as did all the other Teslas of that vintage -- and had to be switched to an "MCU2". I still keep an old iMac around because it has some drawing software on it that I need but that cannot be loaded onto newer Macs to which I had to switch as the old computer's hardware could not accept operating system upgrades.

To expect Lucid to install absolutely future-proof hardware in a car is to demand something of them that no other manufacturer or entity in any field has been able to do.

Don't believe me? Do some reading on the history of NASA spacecraft.
 
Have you guys seen the backup camera on a $165,000 2024 Panamera? It's like a 3 mpx Canon screen from 2008.
 
Have you guys seen the backup camera on a $165,000 2024 Panamera? It's like a 3 mpx Canon screen from 2008.
Its one of my biggest complaints about my Taycan. Backup camera is so distorted that you can hardly tell how close you are to a curb or another car.
 
It's funny to watch Fanboys in this forum cheer for advancements that they do not and cannot have in their own Lucid. I do not appreciate that my 2023 Lucid "car of the future" does not have the computing power to make some of the features I have more functional or deliver new cool stuff that we keep hearing is coming.
Yes, a lot of us cheer for these advancements. We paid money not just to get a spectacular car, but to invest in the mission of the company that is building it, hoping that investment would lead to rapid improvements in technology that would bring down the cost of manufacturing to make products that grow in appeal while becoming more accessible to the masses. I don't in any way feel like I bought a car that is incomplete, which is not to say that I don't wish for that heat pump, but I can keep looking back at what I bought and say that even though that was a lot more money than I've ever spent on a car before, it was among the best money I ever spent, and I would do it again if I had the chance to do it over.
If you feel like you need the latest, wouldn't you be better off leasing? Hardware will continue to evolve rapidly in the next couple of decades.
 
You apparently don't have much experience with modern cars, or even modern electronics, for that matter. I have owned Teslas since 2015 and seen their computer hardware become outdated more than once. The MCU in our first Tesla, a 2015 P90D, ran out of memory and lost some functionality -- as did all the other Teslas of that vintage -- and had to be switched to an "MCU2". I still keep an old iMac around because it has some drawing software on it that I need but that cannot be loaded onto newer Macs to which I had to switch as the old computer's hardware could not accept operating system upgrades.

To expect Lucid to install absolutely future-proof hardware in a car is to demand something of them that no other manufacturer or entity in any field has been able to do.

Don't believe me? Do some reading on the history of NASA spacecraft.
Do you think Lucid will retrofit cpus in to older cars like Tesla did? I doubt it.
 
Do you think Lucid will retrofit cpus in to older cars like Tesla did? I doubt it.

Tesla had to because the tapping out of memory impacted the operation of existing features. Word at the time was that the problem was that the original MCU had used a memory chip that was not designed to be written over repeatedly as happened with the car's application. The problem occurred in our car after the factory warranty expired but, fortunately, we had purchased Tesla's 2-year extended warranty. Otherwise it would have been a $2400 bill. (It's one of the reasons we traded the car for a Model S Plaid a month before the extended warranty expired.)

@IslandLucid was complaining because he might miss out on future features with his original Lucid hardware. That's a different matter entirely.
 
Do you think Lucid will retrofit cpus in to older cars like Tesla did? I doubt it.
Not that I'm a gambling man, but if I were, I'd say the the chances of that possibly happening eventually are higher than you think.
 
"The new Lucid Air Pure delivers 420 miles of EPA-estimated range from a battery pack that is just 84 kilowatt-hours. Enabled by further advancements of Lucid’s groundbreaking technology, this makes the Lucid Air the first vehicle in the world to achieve a ratio of 5.0 miles of range per kilowatt hour (kWh) of energy."

So the baseline Air Pure will have this efficiency partly due to a heat pump. I also read all Air models will have a hear pump. In that case do we know what the Air Touring efficiency will be? And will it still have a 92Kwh battery? If so that would yield 460 miles range ! Not quite at the current GT level but close !
 
So the baseline Air Pure will have this efficiency partly due to a heat pump. I also read all Air models will have a hear pump. In that case do we know what the Air Touring efficiency will be? And will it still have a 92Kwh battery? If so that would yield 460 miles range ! Not quite at the current GT level but close !
Here is my speculation, for what it's worth... The heat pump will definitely come in play in real world range, but I'm not sure how much it comes into play in the EPA range testing process. If their tests are in such ideal conditions that heating or cooling isn't used, or is barely used, then the heat pump would not have much (if any) effect on the EPA figure. For sure in real time though. As for your Touring 460 figure... The Touring has two smaller motors than the Pure RWD's one, higher horsepower, and higher weight, so I can't picture it hitting the 5.0 miles/kWh EPA figure. That said, it should improve by the amount driven by the software improvements and the heat pump's improvements. I would guess about another 0.2 miles/kWh at best in EPA range. And all of that may be wrong!
 
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As I understand it, the biggest benefit of a heat pump will be seen in cold weather driving, when the heat pump can heat both the batteries and the cabin far more efficiently than resistant heating can. Less so when it comes to cooling the batteries and the cabin. In those more extreme conditions, the heat pump can have a really big effect.
 
The recurrent reproducible issue here is that every time there is positive news and new developments regarding Lucid, is that there are some people on this forum who somehow turn it into negativity, as evidenced by this exact thread, in which Lucid achieved a remarkable milestone and the response to that is “but my 2022 Air Dream drive isn’t as good as Tesla auto pilot” etc. While there is nothing wrong with criticizing the vehicle, as I do it myself and have had more service visits than most owners, it’s just a dick move to come and piss all over a thread about an engineering achievement. Go look at early threads about the Sapphire’s staggering accomplishments and you’ll find the usual disgruntled armchair CEOs who just won’t let the sunshine spoil their rain. I’m not being a fanboy pointing that out. It’s only just evidence found in pretty any thread that starts with positivity. I’d like to thank @mcr16 for sharing these accomplishments with us and engaging forum members. Lucid is one of the only car companies that genuinely engages owners, and solicits feedback with the intent of implementing it if able to do so. Many of their service people even own Lucids, which says something about their confidence in the vehicle and that the company isn’t just a bunch of hacks making a mediocre product that doesn’t care about or listen to owners.
 
The recurrent reproducible issue here is that every time there is positive news and new developments regarding Lucid, is that there are some people on this forum who somehow turn it into negativity, as evidenced by this exact thread, in which Lucid achieved a remarkable milestone and the response to that is “but my 2022 Air Dream drive isn’t as good as Tesla auto pilot” etc. While there is nothing wrong with criticizing the vehicle, as I do it myself and have had more service visits than most owners, it’s just a dick move to come and piss all over a thread about an engineering achievement. Go look at early threads about the Sapphire’s staggering accomplishments and you’ll find the usual disgruntled armchair CEOs who just won’t let the sunshine spoil their rain. I’m not being a fanboy pointing that out. It’s only just evidence found in pretty any thread that starts with positivity. I’d like to thank @mcr16 for sharing these accomplishments with us and engaging forum members. Lucid is one of the only car companies that genuinely engages owners, and solicits feedback with the intent of implementing it if able to do so. Many of their service people even own Lucids, which says something about their confidence in the vehicle and that the company isn’t just a bunch of hacks making a mediocre product that doesn’t care about or listen to owners.
I don't want to debate @Bunnylebowski's point of view. Rather, I like us all to be educated on the 5 mile/kWh milestone and applicability.

I do have a few questions in terms of the applicability of this technology across Lucid's product line and for EVs in general:

> the high efficiency, at 5 miles/kWh, was achieved on the Lucid Pure, correct?
> the efficiency/range gain is ~8%, correct?
> this instantiation uses a single PMSM, correct?
> the other Lucid trims use induction motors, correct?
> Are PMSMs more costly to manufacture?
> are there practical limitations to scaling up the size/power of PMSM? Specifically, can the AGT/Sapphire be one-day equipped with multiple PMSMs? Cost/space impact?
>alternately, is PMSM more applicable to certain EV segments, e.g., medium performance EVs?
> some other EV manufacturers also use PMSMs, correct? How do they compare to Lucid's Pure PMSM implementation?
> (forgive my ignorance) If I understood correctly, the (original) Rivian R1S quad motor also use PMSM motors (4X). This architecture enables Rivian's "Conserve" mode that improves the mileage/efficiency (by shutting down the two rear motors). My experience is, this "Conserve" mode extends the range by ~7-8% on the R1S.
 
alternately, is PMSM more applicable to certain EV segments, e.g., medium performance EVs?
From my understanding PM motors are not for performance applications. There is a delay in pushing power through them. I wouldn’t expect PMMs in a Sapphire like car anytime soon. I think Tesla dual motor performance cars use one permanent magnet rear motor and an induction front motor to kind of balance out the responsiveness with efficiency
 
I do have a few questions in terms of the applicability of this technology across Lucid's product line and for EVs in general:

> the high efficiency, at 5 miles/kWh, was achieved on the Lucid Pure, correct?
> the efficiency/range gain is ~8%, correct?
> this instantiation uses a single PMSM, correct?
> the other Lucid trims use induction motors, correct?
> Are PMSMs more costly to manufacture?
> are there practical limitations to scaling up the size/power of PMSM? Specifically, can the AGT/Sapphire be one-day equipped with multiple PMSMs? Cost/space impact?
>alternately, is PMSM more applicable to certain EV segments, e.g., medium performance EVs?
> some other EV manufacturers also use PMSMs, correct? How do they compare to Lucid's Pure PMSM implementation?
> (forgive my ignorance) If I understood correctly, the (original) Rivian R1S quad motor also use PMSM motors (4X). This architecture enables Rivian's "Conserve" mode that improves the mileage/efficiency (by shutting down the two rear motors). My experience is, this "Conserve" mode extends the range by ~7-8% on the R1S.

Wow, BS8899! You really do like digging into the details! Unfortunately for you, with the exception of a few people like hmp10, most people on the forum are more like me when it comes to the details... and half the time, I try to get in the car on the wrong side.
 
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