20-ish mile range difference between 5 seat and 7 seat Gravity?

[hmp10]

If you look at the configurator when you select 5/7 seats you can see the tracks for these seats appearing/disappearing from the 2nd row footwell.

Interesting. As I always select the 7-seat option I had not seen that difference. I have been wondering, though, how much those carpet cut-outs might snag shoes as people shift their feet around in the second row.

 

[hmp10]

Based on the image of the tires in the configurator, the largest wheels have the Elect tires.

View attachment 25485

View attachment 25486

As I posted earlier, this was a picture of the front wheel, and the Pirelli website does show the P Zero "ELECT" tire available in the front wheel size for the Gravity . . . but their website still shows the rear tire size as unavailable in the "ELECT" series.

Based on what Eric Bach told @Adnillien at the delivery event, I've decided to stay with the 22/23" wheel option on my order. But, as I've had to replace several tires on all three of our vehicles in the past two years due to nails and screws in the road around the construction sites that pepper our neighborhood, I want to be sure I can find replacement tires when needed. (It was another such puncture that induced me to try the new Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ tires on our Odyssey just this week.)

Your post made me decide to try to find images of a rear tire mounted on the Gravities that were on the studio rounds recently. (I had seen both the green and the silver cars but was not focusing on tires at the time, so I failed to check.) I finally found a rear-wheel image that resolved clearly enough to discern that the "ELECT" insignia was indeed molded into the sidewall of that rear tire:

However, the Pirelli website still shows this size as not available. So I've emailed Pirelli to ask if Lucid was using a prototype tire or if their website is in error. (I don't know how you could make a "prototype" tire that was safe to put on the road unless you had the mold already built to produce it.)

I know I said I was going to drop the tire questions for now. But starting the new year with yet another puncture replacement has tempted me to reset the clock on the matter.

 

[037]

As I posted earlier, this was a picture of the front wheel, and the Pirelli website does show the P Zero "ELECT" tire available in the front wheel size for the Gravity . . . but their website still shows the rear tire size as unavailable in the "ELECT" series.

Based on what Eric Bach told @Adnillien at the delivery event, I've decided to stay with the 22/23" wheel option on my order. But, as I've had to replace several tires on all three of our vehicles in the past two years due to nails and screws in the road around the construction sites that pepper our neighborhood, I want to be sure I can find replacement tires when needed. (It was another such puncture that induced me to try the new Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ tires on our Odyssey just this week.)

Your post made me decide to try to find images of a rear tire mounted on the Gravities that were on the studio rounds recently. (I had seen both the green and the silver cars but was not focusing on tires at the time, so I failed to check.) I finally found a rear-wheel image that resolved clearly enough to discern that the "ELECT" insignia was indeed molded into the sidewall of that rear tire:

View attachment 25690

However, the Pirelli website still shows this size as not available. So I've emailed Pirelli to ask if Lucid was using a prototype tire or if their website is in error. (I don't know how you could make a "prototype" tire that was safe to put on the road unless you had the mold already built to produce it.)

We can do better image than that…prototype 14 from Friday, NYC

 

[037]

Throw in the full wheel too and I guess the front, no charge

 

[Pragmatic]

I finally found a rear-wheel image that resolved clearly enough to discern that the "ELECT" insignia was indeed molded into the sidewall of that rear tire:
owever, the Pirelli website still shows this size as not available. So I've emailed Pirelli to ask if Lucid was using a prototype tire or if their website is in error.

See Post 88

 

[hmp10]

See Post 88

I read it at the time it went up. However, Gravity deliveries have now begun and these cars are on the road. The two Gravities on the show circuit have had these tires on them for some months now, it seems. There may be some lag time before Tire Rack gets the tire in inventory, but the question I'm raising is why it's not even showing as an available size on the Pirelli website by now.

I am an absolute stickler about keeping matched tires on all four corners of a car, and I want to know I can get replacement tires quickly if needed.

 

[Pragmatic]

By the ti.e you get yours (May?) TireRack will have the tires.

 

[hmp10]

By the ti.e you get yours (May?) TireRack will have the tires.

You know, there is such a thing as curiosity for its own sake. Part of this is that I'm just wondering whether Pirelli's not yet showing a tire as available on its website many months after it's been put on a vehicle is just a website error -- which would say something about their rigor in keeping that information accurate -- or whether it reveals something about how new tire lines move into production and the market. Tire Rack told me new sizes are introduced on an annual update cycle rather than as the tire line evolves. That sounds odd to me, and I'm curious as to whether that's really the case and might be the reason Pirelli has not yet put this 285/35R23 tire on the market and just made it available to Lucid in the meantime. That's why I email the question to Pirelli.

My posts on this subject seem to annoy you. I'm sorry for that, but you could just ignore them. There are plenty of discussions here I quit following once they get into a level of detail or redundancy that exceeds my own interest in the matter.

 

[037]

You know, there is such a thing as curiosity for its own sake. Part of this is that I'm just wondering whether Pirelli's not yet showing a tire as available on its website many months after it's been put on a vehicle is just a website error -- which would say something about their rigor in keeping that information accurate -- or whether it reveals something about how new tire lines move into production and the market. Tire Rack told me new sizes are introduced on an annual update cycle rather than as the tire line evolves. That sounds odd to me, and I'm curious as to whether that's really the case and might be the reason Pirelli has not yet put this 285/35R23 tire on the market and just made it available to Lucid in the meantime. That's why I email the question to Pirelli.

My posts on this subject seem to annoy you. I'm sorry for that, but you could just ignore them. There are plenty of discussions here I quit following once they get into a level of detail or redundancy that exceeds my own interest in the matter.

The rear tires have dates on them indicating they were produced at least 1.5 years ago.

 

[mswlogo]

I bet it has something to do with how EPA tests. I think if it has 7 seats they put more passenger weight in it. That weight might make a bigger difference with the other tires.

I can’t image the seat itself could make that much difference.

 

[037]

I bet it has something to do with how EPA tests. I think if it has 7 seats they put more passenger weight in it. That weight might make a bigger difference with the other tires.

I can’t image the seat itself could make that much difference.

It could be the 7 seats place it in the minivan group which are assumed to be just less efficient than cars so they just dinged it to be on the safe side.

 

[hmp10]

I bet it has something to do with how EPA tests. I think if it has 7 seats they put more passenger weight in it.

It could be the 7 seats place it in the minivan group which are assumed to be just less efficient than cars so they just dinged it to be on the safe side.

The EPA uses Gross Vehicle weight (vehicle + full load of fuel + fluids + maximum passengers + maximum cargo load) to assign a vehicle two one of two vehicle classes: light-duty (up to 8,500 pounds GVW) and heavy-duty (>8,501 pounds GVW). Within each category, however, the EPA does not require vehicles to have passenger and cargo weight added for testing.

FWIW, there's some interesting weight data on the EPA website. In the aftermath of the 1970's oil crisis, average vehicle weight in the U.S. dropped from 4,060 pounds to 3,200 pounds as American buyers and manufacturers began to focus on fuel economy. The trend soon reversed, though, as worry subsided, and by 2004 average vehicle weight had climbed to 4,111 pounds as Americans started turning more and more to SUVs and to pickup trucks for family and recreational use. By 2021 average vehicle weight reached an all-time high of 4,289 pounds and is still increasing:

https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2022-12/420r22029.pdf

EVs, which are almost always heavier than their ICE counterparts, probably contribute to this weight gain. The Gravity, for instance, has a curb weight of 6,173 pounds (not sure, but probably the 5-seat version). Yet, despite their greater weight, EVs soundly trounce equivalent-size ICE vehicles in terms of MPGe, indicating just how much more efficiently electricity moves a vehicle than does gasoline.

 

[037]

The EPA uses Gross Vehicle weight (vehicle + full load of fuel + fluids + maximum passengers + maximum cargo load) to assign a vehicle two one of two vehicle classes: light-duty (up to 8,500 pounds GVW) and heavy-duty (>8,501 pounds GVW). Within each category, however, the EPA does not require vehicles to have passenger and cargo weight added for testing.

FWIW, there's some interesting weight data on the EPA website. In the aftermath of the 1970's oil crisis, average vehicle weight in the U.S. dropped from 4,060 pounds to 3,200 pounds as American buyers and manufacturers began to focus on fuel economy. The trend soon reversed, though, as worry subsided, and by 2004 average vehicle weight had climbed to 4,111 pounds as Americans started turning more and more to SUVs and to pickup trucks for family and recreational use. By 2021 average vehicle weight reached an all-time high of 4,289 pounds and is still increasing:

https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2022-12/420r22029.pdf

EVs, which are almost always heavier than their ICE counterparts, probably contribute to this weight gain. The Gravity, for instance, has a curb weight of 6,173 pounds (not sure, but probably the 5-seat version). Yet, despite their greater weight, EVs soundly trounce equivalent-size ICE vehicles in terms of MPGe, indicating just how much more efficiently electricity moves a vehicle than does gasoline.

Vehicle weight source?

 

[hmp10]

Vehicle weight source?

Lucid Gravity specs, performance data - FastestLaps.com

2024 Lucid Gravity specs, performance data, engine specifications, pictures, updated September 2024.

fastestlaps.com

Another site gives it as 5,512 pounds:

Lucid Gravity Dream Edition full specifications :: evkx.net

evkx.net

Interestingly, Lucid has not released the curb weight figures, although they've published a lot of other dimensions, but I went with the higher one because Hagerty's thinks the weight is going to peg at the higher end.

 

[037]

Lucid Gravity specs, performance data - FastestLaps.com

2024 Lucid Gravity specs, performance data, engine specifications, pictures, updated September 2024.

fastestlaps.com

Another site gives it as 5,512 pounds:

Lucid Gravity Dream Edition full specifications :: evkx.net

evkx.net

Interestingly, Lucid has not released the curb weight figures, although they've published a lot of other dimensions, but I went with the higher one because Hagerty's thinks the weight is going to peg at the higher end.

In that case, let’s go higher

 

[hmp10]

That difference would be about the weight of the third row seating.

Our Air Dream Edition with the 118-kWh pack weighs 5,236 pounds. I don't think there's any way the much larger Gravity would weigh less than 300 pounds more than the Air.

 

[037]

That difference would be about the weight of the third row seating.

Our Air Dream Edition with the 118-kWh pack weighs 5,236 pounds. I don't think there's any way the much larger Gravity would weigh less than 300 pounds more than the Air.

Car and Driver posted a 600# difference and a similar R1S is 7000 while a not quite similar Model X with 100kw is 5500#. Since Model S is much lighter than Air I feel 6300-6500 is probably the most realistic range.

 

[hmp10]

Car and Driver posted a 600# difference and a similar R1S is 7000 while a not quite similar Model X with 100kw is 5500#. Since Model S is much lighter than Air I feel 6300-6500 is probably the most realistic range.

I do, too. But it's a frighteningly large figure for a vehicle I hope to toss around a bit. However, I have come to trust that Lucid knows more about chassis design and handling than just about any automaker who is not Porsche -- and those test drives a couple of weeks ago pretty much proved it.

 

[037]

I do, too. But it's a frighteningly large figure for a vehicle I hope to toss around a bit. However, I have come to trust that Lucid knows more about chassis design and handling than just about any automaker who is not Porsche -- and those test drives a couple of weeks ago pretty much proved it.

I will wait for the Car and Driver full test before making final determination.

Can’t believe a vehicle is in production and we don’t even have an official weight or wheel bolt pattern it tires!

 

[hmp10]

The rear tires have dates on them indicating they were produced at least 1.5 years ago.

WARNING: The following post is only for those who are not sick and tired of tire talk:

I talked to someone in Pirelli's U.S. headquarters today. They confirmed the information on their website, i.e., the 285/35R23 ELECT tire on the rear of the Lucid is not on any of their product availability sheets. They said this meant that if a tire distributor sought to order this tire from them, they don't have it in inventory and could not supply it.

The ELECT series tire for the U.S. market is manufactured in Mexico. So, if the rear tire for the Gravity is being manufactured there, the factory has not let the U.S. headquarters know yet. I told them an ELECT tire manufactured over a year ago was on a Lucid show car, and they had no explanation for how that could be.

Perhaps Lucid sourced these tires on some sort of development deal directly with the factory and has a supply of them on hand should any of the early delivery cars need a replacement?

The non-ELECT version of the P Zero in the Gravity rear-wheel size already costs over $1,000, and the tire for the front wheel costs almost $500. (If the threatened tariffs are actually imposed on Mexico products, the cost of replacing a set of these tires could approach $4,000.)

You can get a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires for the large-wheel Gravity for considerably less money. However, they are not EV-specific tires and scored significantly below the Pirellis in efficiency in Tire Rack's recent 9-tire match up, thus likely driving the Gravity's range even lower.

I'm seriously considering taking the Eric Bach approach: order the Gravity with the 22/23" wheels for local driving fun and buy a set of the 20/21" wheels for road tripping range. The additional advantages of this arrangement are that the Hankooks in those sizes are available from a lot of tire distributors, which would make mid-trip replacement less dicey, and there would be fewer worries with venturing further north outside of summer months.