20-ish mile range difference between 5 seat and 7 seat Gravity?

[037]

WARNING: The following post is only for those who are not sick and tired of tire talk:

I talked to someone in Pirelli's U.S. headquarters today. They confirmed the information on their website, i.e., the 285/35R23 ELECT tire on the rear of the Lucid is not on any of their product availability sheets. They said this meant that if a tire distributor sought to order this tire from them, they don't have it in inventory and could not supply it.

The ELECT series tire for the U.S. market is manufactured in Mexico. So, if the rear tire for the Gravity is being manufactured there, the factory has not let the U.S. headquarters know yet. I told them an ELECT tire manufactured over a year ago was on a Lucid show car, and they had no explanation for how that could be.

Perhaps Lucid sourced these tires on some sort of development deal directly with the factory and has a supply of them on hand should any of the early delivery cars need a replacement?

The non-ELECT version of the P Zero in the Gravity rear-wheel size already costs over $1,000, and the tire for the front wheel costs almost $500. (If the threatened tariffs are actually imposed on Mexico products, the cost of replacing a set of these tires could approach $4,000.)

You can get a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires for the large-wheel Gravity for considerably less money. However, they are not EV-specific tires and scored significantly below the Pirellis in efficiency in Tire Rack's recent 9-tire match up, thus likely driving the Gravity's range even lower.

I'm seriously considering taking the Eric Bach approach: order the Gravity with the 22/23" wheels for local driving fun and buy a set of the 20/21" wheels for road tripping range. The additional advantages of this arrangement are that the Hankooks in those sizes are available from a lot of tire distributors, which would make mid-trip replacement less dicey, and there would be fewer worries with venturing further north outside of summer months.

Made in USA. My idea is to use stock 20/21 for winter and just order 22” square for summer with Michelin 4S in 265 40 and 285 40 sizing.

 

[hmp10]

Made in USA.

Well, this just gets weirder. That tire has the 1JR plant code for Pirelli's Rome, Georgia plant. (Rome, GA is also the location of Pirelli's U.S. headquarters office.)

I wonder if the ELECT series was prototyped in the Rome plant before it was set up for volume production at Pirelli's Silao, Mexico plant? And Rome no longer makes the tire, but Silao hasn't fully ramped up.

Interestingly, Tire Rack is showing the front-wheel 265/40R22 P Zero ELECT as a closeout item only, meaning it's being discontinued. Maybe they got a supply from Rome before it shut production down but can't yet get the tire from Silao?

 

[037]

Well, this just gets weirder. That tire has the 1JR plant code for Pirelli's Rome, Georgia plant. (Rome, GA is also the location of Pirelli's U.S. headquarters office.)

I wonder if the ELECT series was prototyped in the Rome plant before it was set up for volume production at Pirelli's Silao, Mexico plant? And Rome no longer makes the tire, but Silao hasn't fully ramped up.

Interestingly, Tire Rack is showing the front-wheel 265/40R22 P Zero ELECT as a closeout item only, meaning it's being discontinued. Maybe they got a supply from Rome before it shut production down but can't yet get the tire from Silao?

Think the main take away is that getting 22/23 option will be a pain and very expensive. Go staggered sizing on 22s and forget about it.

 

[hmp10]

Think the main take away is that getting 22/23 option will be a pain and very expensive. Go staggered sizing on 22s and forget about it.

Yes to first sentence.

Not sure about second. I'm not at my most rational when it comes to car buying.

 

[BobFM]

I'm still trying to decide if I want to stick with the 21/22 option or go down to the 20/21 option to get the extra 50 miles of range...

 

[tmichael]

Based on the newly posted range specs for different Gravity configurations, I felt like it's a little odd that going from 5 to 7 seats has a range hit of 21 miles with the larger wheels...whereas there is apparently NO range difference between the larger of the 22" and 23" wheel options. This info is also now on the configurator.

I was under the impression that the 2 extra seats in the back don't actually weigh that much. Do they do the range estimate taking into account the seats + the weight of 2 additional passengers?

Posted range in various configurations:

- 450 mi: 20"/21", 5-Passenger
- 437 mi: 20"/21", 7-Passenger
- 407 mi: 5-Passenger, 21"/22" or 22"/23"
- 386 mi: 7-Passenger, 21"/22" or 22"/23"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869427044532322628

My guess is the battery is different to accomodate third row feet. Similar to what they did with the Air.

 

[037]

My guess is the battery is different to accomodate third row feet. Similar to what they did with the Air.

That was between Touring and Grand Touring. Nobody is playing with batteries within the same trim.

 

[hmp10]

My guess is the battery is different to accomodate third row feet. Similar to what they did with the Air.

The Gravity has plenty of leg drop in the third row with the battery pack as it is. I don't know what will differentiate the Gravity Touring from the Grand Touring, but lowering the floor further would actually make third-row seating awkward, especially for kids.

 

[flarbear]

I'm wondering where they put the mechanism to slide the 2nd row forward in the 7 seater. Is it really super-thin and requires almost no floor space? Or do they perhaps place it above the battery under the front seats?

 

[tonybot]

The Gravity has plenty of leg drop in the third row with the battery pack as it is. I don't know what will differentiate the Gravity Touring from the Grand Touring, but lowering the floor further would actually make third-row seating awkward, especially for kids.

Could this be the reason why the vehicle weight was not announced and why it could be much lighter than other EV SUVs?

Thread 'Lucid Partners with Panasonic for Gravity Battery'

Yesterday at 6:30 PM

800Wh per Litter is impressive!

https://ir.lucidmotors.com/news-releases/news-release-details/groundbreaking-lucid-gravity-leverage-panasonic-energys-latest/

• tonybot
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Lucid Gravity

• 

 

[hmp10]

Could this be the reason why the vehicle weight was not announced and why it could be much lighter than other EV SUVs?

Thread 'Lucid Partners with Panasonic for Gravity Battery'

Yesterday at 6:30 PM

800Wh per Litter is impressive!

https://ir.lucidmotors.com/news-releases/news-release-details/groundbreaking-lucid-gravity-leverage-panasonic-energys-latest/

• tonybot
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Lucid Gravity

• 

Lucid has said that the Gravity platform will contain 6,600 cells in 22 modules just like the large-pack Airs so, unless the Panasonic cells weigh significantly less than other cells, there shouldn't be a lot of difference in the weight.

The language in this press release is similar to that used in the release several years ago when Lucid announced a partnership with Samsung for cells used in the Dream Edition (and later in the GT-P and the Sapphire). The Panasonic press release talks of working with Panasonic to attain "fast-charging, safety, longevity and performance" but doesn't specifically mention energy density. In the earlier press release about Samsung, they said Lucid worked with Samsung to develop a proprietary battery that had higher tolerance of fast charging. By contrast, the release that came soon afterward about the LG Chem batteries for the lower trim levels did not mention working with LG Chem on proprietary chemistry, but instead said LG Chem produced a battery that aligned very well with Lucid's performance goals. The LG Chem pack and the Samsung pack both had 6,600 cells and differed in capacity by only 6 kWh. It later was revealed that the greater capacity of the Samsung batteries derived from needing less of an upper buffer rather than from greater cell energy density.

The energy density level of the Panasonic battery does look good but, unless Lucid is soon to release updated battery specs for the Gravity, its battery capacity is just a few kWh's above that of the Air packs with Samsung batteries.

 

[Adnillien]

The energy density level of the Panasonic battery does look good but, unless Lucid is soon to release updated battery specs for the Gravity, its battery capacity is just a few kWh's above that of the Air packs with Samsung batteries.

I have heard anywhere from 120 to 123 kWhr for Gravity GT with Panasonic cells. The Panasonic cells have slightly greater energy density than the Samsung that is greater than the LG. The LG cells used by Tesla are known for slow DCFC charging so I assume that is one of the charging limits of the Air. I hear the Panasonic cells are a step above the Samsung cells for charging. I expect the Gravity charging to be very good and I hope Lucid releases some charging curves for Gravity soon.

 

[Elfin]

I have heard anywhere from 120 to 123 kWhr for Gravity GT with Panasonic cells. The Panasonic cells have slightly greater energy density than the Samsung that is greater than the LG. The LG cells used by Tesla are known for slow DCFC charging so I assume that is one of the charging limits of the Air. I hear the Panasonic cells are a step above the Samsung cells for charging. I expect the Gravity charging to be very good and I hope Lucid releases some charging curves for Gravity soon.

Yeah, this is great news. Teslas with the Panasonic 2170 cells charge faster than the LG's.

Very annoyed with Lucid for putting rare tire size/load/speed rating on the Gravity. I guess they're planning on selling enough vehicles that tire manufacturers will start making them? seems unlikely...

 

[hmp10]

I'm wondering where they put the mechanism to slide the 2nd row forward in the 7 seater. Is it really super-thin and requires almost no floor space? Or do they perhaps place it above the battery under the front seats?

Pure speculation here, but I'm guessing it's some kind of rack and pinion device driven by a motor placed between the floorboard and the bottom of the seat cushion. It wouldn't require a large motor, and there should be room for it there.

 

[joec]

Yeah, this is great news. Teslas with the Panasonic 2170 cells charge faster than the LG's.

Very annoyed with Lucid for putting rare tire size/load/speed rating on the Gravity. I guess they're planning on selling enough vehicles that tire manufacturers will start making them? seems unlikely...

They are putting what they feel are the best wheels and tires possible. That’s their only motivation. They are obsessed with handling and dynamics.

 

[Elfin]

They are putting what they feel are the best wheels and tires possible. That’s their only motivation. They are obsessed with handling and dynamics.

They said the staggered diameter is just for looks. Also, it makes it less likely that the best tires will be available for the Gravity. A tires design makes a much bigger difference than small changes to diameter and width.

 

[hmp10]

They are putting what they feel are the best wheels and tires possible. That’s their only motivation. They are obsessed with handling and dynamics.

I do think that's the case with the Pirellis. However, I think range was the primary consideration with the 20/21" tires. I'm not sure about the 21/21" wheel/tire combo. I also still think about the Lucid chassis engineer telling Kyle Conner that the staggered diameters were driven primarily by cosmetic considerations instead of performance.

In any case, I'm a stickler for handling and dynamics, too. That's why I really want to go with the 22/23" wheels on my order. However, we live on a residential road with lots of new home construction, and we and our neighbors have had multiple tire punctures. All three of our cars have had punctured tire replacements over the past two years -- and our Air twice. So I've got to take the issue of tire replacement into account right from first delivery of a new car.

Unless a tire is almost new, I never replace a single tire on an axle, but always replace the pair to keep similar tread depths on the axle -- and the entire set if tread wear is significant. However, if the undamaged tire has good tread, I keep it in case it might match a tire that is subsequently punctured. This is the recent stack of tires in our garage I have accumulated for this purpose:

Given my conversation yesterday with Pirelli, I'm worried that it might be a while before I can be sure OE tires for the Gravity will be available through tire distributors, and I don't know how long it might take to get tires shipped from Lucid (as we're not near a Service Center, and mobile techs can't change tires.)

 

[hmp10]

Also, it makes it less likely that the best tires will be available for the Gravity.

Yep. I've done a lot of searching and, even assuming the Pirellis will soon be available for the 22/23" wheels, there's precious little else to choose from. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is available, but only the rear tire is an EV tire, and the front and rears have different speed ratings. But there is nothing in the excellent line of Continental tires -- some of my favorites -- for the staggered diameters. And the story continues in brand search after brand search.

 

[illopp00]

Yep. I've done a lot of searching and, even assuming the Pirellis will soon be available for the 22/23" wheels, there's precious little else to choose from. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is available, but only the rear tire is an EV tire, and the front and rears have different speed ratings. But there is nothing in the excellent line of Continental tires -- some of my favorites -- for the staggered diameters. And the story continues in brand search after brand search.

I am too much of a geek about this, but I always try to find these tests from Tyre Reviews and Tirerack on youtube about EV specific tires vs regular tires and vice versa. I am not totally convinced there aren't way more options as long as you accept the various compromises. I even considered putting EV tires on our CR-V to make it quieter...

 

[hmp10]

I am too much of a geek about this, but I always try to find these tests from Tyre Reviews and Tirerack on youtube about EV specific tires vs regular tires and vice versa. I am not totally convinced there aren't way more options as long as you accept the various compromises. I even considered putting EV tires on our CR-V to make it quieter...

If you can find a selection of summer performance tire sets that will fit the 22/23" wheels, I'd certainly like to know about it. As I said, the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S will fit if you are okay with different speed ratings and an EV/nonEV tire split between the axles.

I'm not being sarcastic. I really would like to get comfortable that tires won't be exceptionally tricky to find for those wheels.