Anyone know of bidirectional charging status?

You can sort of achieve V2H with a Lucid Air, its bidirectional charger, and an EcoFlow Delta Pro which supports J1772 input. I have this exact combo and have confirmed I can charge the house batteries from the Lucid. There’s a pretty big catch though - the batteries can’t be plugged into the house AND the car at the same time - the Delta Pro uses the same port for both recharging from J1772 and plugging into the smart panel/transfer switch EcoFlow makes. So in an actual power outage you may still have to spend a few hours without power if you need to recharge the house batteries. Could still run some extension cords to the Delta Pro while charging however - just can’t power the house circuits directly.

KpaBap said:

You can sort of achieve V2H with a Lucid Air, its bidirectional charger, and an EcoFlow Delta Pro which supports J1772 input. I have this exact combo and have confirmed I can charge the house batteries from the Lucid. There’s a pretty big catch though - the batteries can’t be plugged into the house AND the car at the same time - the Delta Pro uses the same port for both recharging from J1772 and plugging into the smart panel/transfer switch EcoFlow makes. So in an actual power outage you may still have to spend a few hours without power if you need to recharge the house batteries. Could still run some extension cords to the Delta Pro while charging however - just can’t power the house circuits directly.

Click to expand...

Interesting work around; might be something to try and implement. (My and @Denali_Dane ’s luck would be to do this and then have the official V2H come out the next month.

KpaBap said:

You can sort of achieve V2H with a Lucid Air, its bidirectional charger, and an EcoFlow Delta Pro which supports J1772 input. I have this exact combo and have confirmed I can charge the house batteries from the Lucid. There’s a pretty big catch though - the batteries can’t be plugged into the house AND the car at the same time - the Delta Pro uses the same port for both recharging from J1772 and plugging into the smart panel/transfer switch EcoFlow makes. So in an actual power outage you may still have to spend a few hours without power if you need to recharge the house batteries. Could still run some extension cords to the Delta Pro while charging however - just can’t power the house circuits directly.

Click to expand...

Well if that's the case, and I'm no EE, why can't the Lucid home charger just output to a panel/transfer switch while plugged into your car??? That's assuming the home charger can somehow have a J1772 output.

Let me put in another plug for V2L. I know it was not promised, but since V2L does not pump power into the utility lines, it should be much, much easier than V2H.

Its basically a 924 VDC to 110 VAC inverter. But it will need some software work in the Wunderbox. Hyundi has figured out how to do it on their 800V architecture.

californiaboy935 said:

Interesting work around; might be something to try and implement. (My and @Denali_Dane ’s luck would be to do this and then have the official V2H come out the

Click to expand...

KpaBap said:

You can sort of achieve V2H with a Lucid Air, its bidirectional charger, and an EcoFlow Delta Pro which supports J1772 input. I have this exact combo and have confirmed I can charge the house batteries from the Lucid. There’s a pretty big catch though - the batteries can’t be plugged into the house AND the car at the same time - the Delta Pro uses the same port for both recharging from J1772 and plugging into the smart panel/transfer switch EcoFlow makes. So in an actual power outage you may still have to spend a few hours without power if you need to recharge the house batteries. Could still run some extension cords to the Delta Pro while charging however - just can’t power the house circuits directly.

Click to expand...

So, if V2G or V2H is not possible yet, and V2L is already possible would this setup be workable?

Lucid parked at home -> charging a home battery -> home battery powering the house
When Lucid is away, home battery still powering the house
When lucid (with full battery) parks and connects at home again -> home battery will be charged again.
If yes, what kind of hardware is needed for that? Only some powerwall for in the house plus the RangeXchange Charging Adapter?
I'm thinking of this idea because I can charge my car with solar energy quite cheap at my office, so I can drive the energy back to my home to use it there.

Another idea is: solar inverters have a DC-input, with different input voltage ranges, the car has a DC-output I suppose. Thus using a DC-DC converter, the car can power the solar inverter, and the solar inverter is directly tied to the Grid, thus providing V2G ?

ardhout said:

So, if V2G or V2H is not possible yet, and V2L is already possible would this setup be workable?

Lucid parked at home -> charging a home battery -> home battery powering the house
When Lucid is away, home battery still powering the house
When lucid (with full battery) parks and connects at home again -> home battery will be charged again.
If yes, what kind of hardware is needed for that? Only some powerwall for in the house plus the RangeXchange Charging Adapter?
I'm thinking of this idea because I can charge my car with solar energy quite cheap at my office, so I can drive the energy back to my home to use it there.

Another idea is: solar inverters have a DC-input, with different input voltage ranges, the car has a DC-output I suppose. Thus using a DC-DC converter, the car can power the solar inverter, and the solar inverter is directly tied to the Grid, thus providing V2G ?

Click to expand...

No. Nothing can power your house without a transfer switch that isolates your has from the grid in case of a power outage, otherwise your battery (in your scenario) would sent current back to the grid and potentially fry any utility people working to fix things and reestablish power to your home…

You COULD charge a battery with your Lucid and as long as that battery is not connected to your home electric panels, you could plug an appliance into the battery, but that’s really a wasted step. If Lucid provided a V2L option, you’d just directly use your Lucid as the battery…

Blue Lectroid said:

No. Nothing can power your house without a transfer switch that isolates your has from the grid in case of a power outage, otherwise your battery (in your scenario) would sent current back to the grid and potentially fry any utility people working to fix things and reestablish power to your home…

Click to expand...

Ok, but a solar inverter powers your house without a transfer switch. But of course it switches off itself if the Net voltage drops to zero, probably for same reason. But still no modifications or breakers are needed for that, it's all included in the inverter box.
So if your battery send current back to the grid, only through a standalone breaker switch, with switches off in case of power goes down it would be fine correct?
If only I can tell the car to send power out, in same way as current V2L cable is doing (probably with some CAN-bus communication programming) then it could work or not?

scal_air said:

Well if that's the case, and I'm no EE, why can't the Lucid home charger just output to a panel/transfer switch while plugged into your car??? That's assuming the home charger can somehow have a J1772 output.

Click to expand...

Make a transfer switch that accepts J1772 input and it will work. If you were indeed an EE or just had basic electrical knowledge none of this is very difficult or complicated. You can trick a J1772 plug into putting out power with a few resistors.

I would imagine the issue isn't any technical complexity but rather legal/regulatory. There's a world of difference between me dicking around in my garage with resistors, and a corporation selling a product that can impact life and safety.

One other thing to note - the RangeXchange/bidirectional charger puts out 240v - likely split phase if it's meant to be compatible with North American electrical systems. This must be accounted for when wiring things up at risk of lots of things in your house releasing the magic smoke.

ardhout said:

Ok, but a solar inverter powers your house without a transfer switch. But of course it switches off itself if the Net voltage drops to zero, probably for same reason. But still no modifications or breakers are needed for that, it's all included in the inverter box.
So if your battery send current back to the grid, only through a standalone breaker switch, with switches off in case of power goes down it would be fine correct?
If only I can tell the car to send power out, in same way as current V2L cable is doing (probably with some CAN-bus communication programming) then it could work or not?

Click to expand...

Please take no offense but.. from reading your posts, I would suggest to go back and do more reading on topics like solar inverters, battery backup systems, US electrical grid in general, and so on. You're stringing terms together but are lacking the deeper understanding of the terms you're using.

J1772 signaling is quite simple and not related to CAN - as I stated elsewhere you can trick it with just a handful of resistors.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Signaling


A switch that flips in case the grid goes down is called... an automatic transfer switch. Manual versions indeed also exist. These are purpose built devices that ensure that the home will be "islanded" and completely isolated from the grid when necessary.

Solar inverters exist in "grid-tied" and "off-grid" versions. Grid-tied inverters are simpler and *require* the grid to be online to provide a few things - most importantly but not all, a reference 60Hz/120v signal, and an infinite energy sink. They literally by design cannot operate without these things. If you attempted to trick a grid-tied solar inverter by feeding it a 120v 60hz signal (say from a generator) - you will indeed get it to back feed power into your generator.

What happens next?
Well your solar power has to go somewhere, and there's nothing consuming it, quickly leading to a voltage spike. If you're lucky, the inverter simply shuts itself off as it detects this condition. If you're unlucky, your generator (and inverter probably) releases the magic smoke.

Off-grid inverters are more expensive (because/and) they have electronics that allow them to operate completely independently of the grid. Typically, this also includes functions to manage battery backup charging, anti-islanding protections, aforementioned frequency and voltage

More reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid-tie_inverter

Bringing this all back to reality. The Lucid Air + RangeXchange adapter already puts out 240v/40A AC power. The inverting is done inside the car.
This power is in a "format" that's ready to use by your home electrical system.
Here's all you need to build (or buy) to make it work:
- A 240v/40A rated manual or automatic transfer switch which speaks the J1772 signaling protocol.

KpaBap said:

...Here's all you need to build (or buy) to make it work:
- A 240v/40A rated manual or automatic transfer switch which speaks the J1772 signaling protocol.

Click to expand...

And an autotransformer to create a center neutral from the J1772's single phase 240V output.
Excellent post BTW.

DeaneG said:

And an autotransformer to create a center neutral from the J1772's single phase 240V output.
Excellent post BTW.

Click to expand...

Right you are! I overlooked that indeed the J1772 plug does not even have enough pins to provide a neutral for split phase service - in 240v mode it just has two hots as each of them can act as the return for the other.

In the case of the EcoFlow delta pro “hack” it works because the power flow is: 240v single phase out of the car -> AC/DC power supply/rectifier -> batteries -> 120v inverter.
Unsurprisingly all this is probably not very efficient. In general I get maybe 60% end to end efficiency from the EcoFlow battery system at low loads (4-500w).

KpaBap said:

In the case of the EcoFlow delta pro “hack” it works because the power flow is: 240v single phase out of the car -> AC/DC power supply/rectifier -> batteries -> 120v inverter.
Unsurprisingly all this is probably not very efficient. In general I get maybe 60% end to end efficiency from the EcoFlow battery system at low loads (4-500w).

Click to expand...

Just have to say, this is a really useful discussion, even for a layperson to get an idea of the issues involved. I've been considering either buying one of the "unboxed, for-sale" LCHCS chargers on the promise of future L2H or an Ecoflow battery, RangeXchange Charging Adaptor, and the new mobile charging cable adaptor ($650!), but the installation costs can likely pile up beyond the initial purchase costs. My solar system circa 2014 has a manual switch and a single 110v outlet that produces power while the sun shines, so I may just use a portable battery to slowly charge in case of an outage that lasts longer than a few hours.

But thanks again for this great discussion.

KpaBap said:

Here's all you need to build (or buy) to make it work:
- A 240v/40A rated manual or automatic transfer switch which speaks the J1772 signaling protocol.

Click to expand...

Is such unit for sale somewhere?
And if I only want to utilize the 240V/40Amp connection as a single plug, to power a laundry machine for example without connecting it to the house grid, will this work? Or I'm I missing the J1772 signalling protocol somewhere?
Does a simple electronic unit exists (with 1kHz function generator which could simulate charging currents the car should supply)?

Does any know where bi-directional charging is on the Lucid road map?

I purchased my car 2 years ago after reading all the promises from Lucid about 3 years ago:
1. Bi-directional charging
2. Some form of hands free driving
3. Android auto

PETER, how long are we supposed to wait for the features that sold your cars?
Many of your lower priced and lower end competitors have passed you by.
NOT a good look for Lucid, or really helping car sales.

PROMISES MUST BE KEPT, especially the ones that we paid $10,000 for (dream drive pro)

dscafetta said:

Does any know where bi-directional charging is on the Lucid road map?

I purchased my car 2 years ago after reading all the promises from Lucid about 3 years ago:
1. Bi-directional charging
2. Some form of hands free driving
3. Android auto

PETER, how long are we supposed to wait for the features that sold your cars?
Many of your lower priced and lower end competitors have passed you by.
NOT a good look for Lucid, or really helping car sales.

PROMISES MUST BE KEPT, especially the ones that we paid $10,000 for (dream drive pro)

Click to expand...

Who is this “Peter” you refer to?

dscafetta said:

Does any know where bi-directional charging is on the Lucid road map?

I purchased my car 2 years ago after reading all the promises from Lucid about 3 years ago:
1. Bi-directional charging
2. Some form of hands free driving
3. Android auto

PETER, how long are we supposed to wait for the features that sold your cars?
Many of your lower priced and lower end competitors have passed you by.
NOT a good look for Lucid, or really helping car sales.

PROMISES MUST BE KEPT, especially the ones that we paid $10,000 for (dream drive pro)

Click to expand...

I'd answer but @marqie would chastise me for stirring the pot!!
Still wouldn't match the dry snark of @Bobby's response above though...