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Forced to pay at Electrify America

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Todd

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23 Air Touring
I was at the EA chargers in Round Rock, TX, yesterday. I tried two separate chargers, and neither could validate my Lucid Air. I used my credit card to pay for the charge ($22.48).
Has anyone else had similar experiences? I have used EA successfully many times in the past, and I’m only 11 months into my 36 months of free charging.
 
It happen to me a few times. You can always use Lucid app->Lucid charging service to authenticate and select correct charger. Another option would be to ask EA for reimbursement (it has worked for me in the past) but you need to provide charging sessions details.
 
On your failed sessions, did you try to validate the charging stations through the Lucid app as suggested above? Plug and charge is sometimes unreliable and you have to use your Lucid app
 
Ran into this the other day, posted it on another thread. Others chimed in with same experience. The solution is as posted above...open the Lucid App and go to the Charging screen, you'll see a 'start EA charging' button or something along those lines. The issue is that the authentication isn't working automatically, resulting in you seeing the guest/member screen on the EA charging unit. Ignore that, hit the button in the App, it'll authenticate and you'll be all set.
 
Yeah, the kicker is that it’s random. Some people have never had an issue with P&C so it throws them for a loop the first time it happens. The good news is, once it bappens, you’ll always remember what to do.
 
Todd said:
I was at the EA chargers in Round Rock, TX, yesterday. I tried two separate chargers, and neither could validate my Lucid Air. I used my credit card to pay for the charge ($22.48).
Has anyone else had similar experiences? I have used EA successfully many times in the past, and I’m only 11 months into my 36 months of free charging.
Click to expand...
Yes. Round Rock was one station of several I could not do P&C either on the EA machine OR through the Lucid App. Tell Lucid and EA of the issues. EA will reimburse.
 
suchluke said:
It happen to me a few times. You can always use Lucid app->Lucid charging service to authenticate and select correct charger. Another option would be to ask EA for reimbursement (it has worked for me in the past) but you need to provide charging sessions details.
Click to expand...
Sometimes the wrong EA station shows up (the last one you visited) so there is no way to authenticate. It’s a bug. Lucid is aware.
 
Went to my first EA charger today. I have a 2024 Pure and was told I did not have free charging. I plugged in and got plug and play easily, charger for a hour and it was free. Nice mistake.
 
Sandvinsd said:
Sometimes the wrong EA station shows up (the last one you visited) so there is no way to authenticate. It’s a bug. Lucid is aware.
Click to expand...

Yep, I had this problem today when the EA stations at Brunswick, GA kept throwing out “Authentication Errors” and locking the cable into our charge port. It took several tries on the EA app before I could access the location I was at instead of the one I had used earlier (which was also having authentication problems).

Electrify America and Lucid Motors do not mix.
 
hmp10 said:
Yep, I had this problem today when the EA stations at Brunswick, GA kept throwing out “Authentication Errors” and locking the cable into our charge port. It took several tries on the EA app before I could access the location I was at instead of the one I had used earlier (which was also having authentication problems).

Electrify America and Lucid Motors do not mix.
Click to expand...
Once the free charging ends, these plug and charge authentication issues will disappear since you will authenticate and pay through the EA app with your credit card. I had to resort to that on the Austin trip and then get reimbursed, but it was a royal PIA.
 
Sandvinsd said:
Once the free charging ends, these plug and charge authentication issues will disappear since you will authenticate and pay through the EA app with your credit card. I had to resort to that on the Austin trip and then get reimbursed, but it was a royal PIA.
Click to expand...
That's not necessarily true. For example, my wife's Hyundai Ioniq 5 she plugs in, taps her EA card (which is in her Apple Wallet, and doesn't even require unlocking the phone), and it starts charging. No fuss.

EVGo also has a plug-n-charge setup where you enter your VIN, and then just literally plug in and charge.

So yeah, PnC will still exist; and Lucid may even be the ones charging you for it, not EA. I'm not sure how that's going to work. But there are options.
 
borski said:
That's not necessarily true. For example, my wife's Hyundai Ioniq 5 she plugs in, taps her EA card (which is in her Apple Wallet, and doesn't even require unlocking the phone), and it starts charging. No fuss.

EVGo also has a plug-n-charge setup where you enter your VIN, and then just literally plug in and charge.

So yeah, PnC will still exist; and Lucid may even be the ones charging you for it, not EA. I'm not sure how that's going to work. But there are options.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on how you define plug and charge. If I can plug in and walk away, I call it plug and charge. If I have to open an app and authenticate, I consider that not a true PnC. The nuances are not worth arguing about. Nonetheless, I was saying that the current Lucid authentication issues won’t be an issue after free charging because the VIN will be (and is currently) recognized by EA, so they could charge a card either by a tap or the PnC. It is the free “charging” that is the issue right now since it is authenticated by Lucid and not EA. Other manufacturers go through EA so EA knows it is a free charge and when that freebe expires. Lucid does not and that cause the occasional glitch. Its a communication issue. EA doesn’t know that your VIN is free and requests a cc, wither entered on the machine or stored in their app.
 
Sandvinsd said:
I guess it depends on how you define plug and charge. If I can plug in and walk away, I call it plug and charge. If I have to open an app and authenticate, I consider that not a true PnC. The nuances are not worth arguing about. Nonetheless, I was saying that the current Lucid authentication issues won’t be an issue after free charging because the VIN will be (and is currently) recognized by EA, so they could charge a card either by a tap or the PnC. It is the free “charging” that is the issue right now since it is authenticated by Lucid and not EA. Other manufacturers go through EA so EA knows it is a free charge and when that freebe expires. Lucid does not and that cause the occasional glitch. Its a communication issue. EA doesn’t know that your VIN is free and requests a cc, wither entered on the machine or stored in their app.
Click to expand...
What I have found at places other than EA is that it's easier to just tap your credit card (or for me use ApplePay with my watch) to get charge going. I did this at EVGo recently and it worked perfectly. I don't bother with all these companies and their apps anymore.

Having said that, I agree with you; plug and charge means literally plug it in, and it starts charging. I'd love to see Lucid set up partnerships to make that happen with many other companies beyond EA.
 
Sandvinsd said:
I guess it depends on how you define plug and charge. If I can plug in and walk away, I call it plug and charge. If I have to open an app and authenticate, I consider that not a true PnC. The nuances are not worth arguing about.
Click to expand...
The nuances matter though, because that's exactly what I just described. You can, right now, go to an EVGo (after having pre-registered in the app): drive up, plug in, go have lunch. Even at EA with a non-Lucid: drive up, plug in, tap your phone or watch (no need to open any app or anything), and the EA apple wallet card automatically starts charging.

'Plug in and walk away' is precisely what I'm talking about. No app, no authentication. Technically, with EA, you have to tap your phone or watch, but you don't even need to unlock it. It treats the EA card as an 'express transit' card and just works.

Sandvinsd said:
Nonetheless, I was saying that the current Lucid authentication issues won’t be an issue after free charging because the VIN will be (and is currently) recognized by EA, so they could charge a card either by a tap or the PnC. It is the free “charging” that is the issue right now since it is authenticated by Lucid and not EA.
Click to expand...
That's not accurate, and here the nuances matter once again. There is a plug-n-charge standard: ISO 15118. Lucid, and a few other cars, support this standard. Many charging stations don't yet, EVGo included; they recognize the car by VIN. This is much less secure, among other things. Stations will have to support ISO 15118 to get federal NEVI funding, however, so this is changing over time.

Why does this matter? Because Lucid is presently authenticated at EA via this standard, which Involves the car having a proper certificate and key to be able to do the PKI dance necessary to authenticate. EA does not authenticate the Lucid via VIN.

Which is why industry standard charging authentication protocols like ISO 15118 had to be invented - it describes how a car maker creates a secure key for each car, how a user can enroll a car they own to a charging service provider and then how the car can communicate with a charging station such that a charging stations gets a signed receipt of the charging session being done and can send that to the charging service provider at any later time for correct billing. Right now, Lucid enrolls the car for you. In the future, they would either have to store your credit card info or somehow move enrollment with EA to the owner. Nobody knows how this will work yet; I'm expecting some hiccups, but I'd love to be wrong.

Anyway, the point of this all is - EA authenticates your car right now, not Lucid.

Sandvinsd said:
Other manufacturers go through EA so EA knows it is a free charge and when that freebe expires. Lucid does not and that cause the occasional glitch. Its a communication issue. EA doesn’t know that your VIN is free and requests a cc, wither entered on the machine or stored in their app.
Click to expand...
That is yet another system separate and different from ISO 15118. As an example: the Hyundai Ioniq 5 does not support ISO 15118 yet, and so does this crazy dance with EA where they essentially make an EA account but apply a promo code to EA charging under the hood.

The Hyundai Ioniq 6, on the other hand, explicitly advertises compatibility with ISO 15118.

Long story short: it'a a shitshow right now. :)
 
borski said:
The nuances matter though, because that's exactly what I just described. You can, right now, go to an EVGo (after having pre-registered in the app): drive up, plug in, go have lunch. Even at EA with a non-Lucid: drive up, plug in, tap your phone or watch (no need to open any app or anything), and the EA apple wallet card automatically starts charging.

'Plug in and walk away' is precisely what I'm talking about. No app, no authentication. Technically, with EA, you have to tap your phone or watch, but you don't even need to unlock it. It treats the EA card as an 'express transit' card and just works.


That's not accurate, and here the nuances matter once again. There is a plug-n-charge standard: ISO 15118. Lucid, and a few other cars, support this standard. Many charging stations don't yet, EVGo included; they recognize the car by VIN. This is much less secure, among other things. Stations will have to support ISO 15118 to get federal NEVI funding, however, so this is changing over time.

Why does this matter? Because Lucid is presently authenticated at EA via this standard, which Involves the car having a proper certificate and key to be able to do the PKI dance necessary to authenticate. EA does not authenticate the Lucid via VIN.

Which is why industry standard charging authentication protocols like ISO 15118 had to be invented - it describes how a car maker creates a secure key for each car, how a user can enroll a car they own to a charging service provider and then how the car can communicate with a charging station such that a charging stations gets a signed receipt of the charging session being done and can send that to the charging service provider at any later time for correct billing. Right now, Lucid enrolls the car for you. In the future, they would either have to store your credit card info or somehow move enrollment with EA to the owner. Nobody knows how this will work yet; I'm expecting some hiccups, but I'd love to be wrong.

Anyway, the point of this all is - EA authenticates your car right now, not Lucid.


That is yet another system separate and different from ISO 15118. As an example: the Hyundai Ioniq 5 does not support ISO 15118 yet, and so does this crazy dance with EA where they essentially make an EA account but apply a promo code to EA charging under the hood.

The Hyundai Ioniq 6, on the other hand, explicitly advertises compatibility with ISO 15118.

Long story short: it'a a shitshow right now. :)
Click to expand...
Whatever. Not sure why you want to get into a pissing match and really don’t care about communication standards and which entity works for authentication.

Just saying that EA does not recognize which Lucid vehicles get free charging in their system. that is different from other manufacturers. It is how Lucid tells EA it’s free. This is from LONG three-way conversations when I have been having authentication issues. So…… EA needs a cc if they can’t see the free charging. Also is why you have to authenticate through the Lucid app (I.e. Lucid tells EA it’s free). If the Lucid app thinks you are at the previous station, your are screwed. It seems to have been fixed on my car, but I really have not taken many trips with DCFC since then to know for sure.

Bottom line. When the free charge ends and you have the cc and Lucid VIN in the EA app, things should work perfectly and it will be PnC.
 
Sandvinsd said:
Whatever. Not sure why you want to get into a pissing match and really don’t care about communication standards and which entity works for authentication.

Just saying that EA does not recognize which Lucid vehicles get free charging in their system. that is different from other manufacturers. It is how Lucid tells EA it’s free. This is from LONG three-way conversations when I have been having authentication issues. So…… EA needs a cc if they can’t see the free charging. Also is why you have to authenticate through the Lucid app (I.e. Lucid tells EA it’s free). If the Lucid app thinks you are at the previous station, your are screwed. It seems to have been fixed on my car, but I really have not taken many trips with DCFC since then to know for sure.

Bottom line. When the free charge ends and you have the cc and Lucid VIN in the EA app, things should work perfectly and it will be PnC.
Click to expand...
… I’m not trying to get into a pissing contest. I just described, in detail, why Lucid tells EA it’s free, and how the authentication is specifically part of the ISO 15118 standard, but the authorization sometimes fails, which is why Lucid has to tell EA it’s free.

EA *does* have knowledge of which Lucid vehicles are free and which aren’t, but that “database” is not perfect, and sometimes fails to authorize an otherwise validly authenticated vehicle for free charging.

Bottom line: we have absolutely no idea whether Lucid is going to charge us or EA is. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 example doesn’t apply because it isn’t ISO 15118.

How does EA work with the Ioniq 6? That would actually answer the question, but I don’t know anyone who owns one.

Anyway, the point isn’t to start a pissing contest, but to try and be accurate when describing what’s happening.
 
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