Lucid CEO critiques other EV-SUVs

[DeaneG]

https://****************.com/lucid/...s-electric-suvs-available-none-are-very-good/

 

[scal_air]

Wow.... That might have been a little more blunt than needed. I hope he walks the walk

 

[BS8899]

https://****************.com/lucid/...s-electric-suvs-available-none-are-very-good/

We will see, soon enough.

If Rawlinson is comparing Gravity to Model X/Model Y as 3 row SUVs, he is correct. I think Rivian and Hyundai 3 row SUVs are equally (if not more) spacious.
I'd expect Gravity to have better drive dynamics when compared to a R1S.
I am skeptical about Gravity's range/efficiency claims. If it is anything like the Lucid Air, I'd expect ~75-80% of their claim or ~330-350 miles in actual highway driving. Yes, I know I am comparing EPA vs actual hwy driving. But my R1S routinely meets/exceeds its EPA efficiency and range on hwy driving. My Lucid Air routinely misses its EPA rating by 20-25% in hwy driving.
Based on Lucid's track record, I think they will do a decent job on drive dynamics. Based on Lucid Air's history, I am skeptical about the electronics and SW.

 

[Drendino]

He didn’t mention anything about software. I don’t know how you can omit that when making a comparison with the competition.

 

[BS8899]

He didn’t mention anything about software. I don’t know how you can omit that when making a comparison with the competition.

Rawlinson, as the CEO/CTO, is an electro-mechanical engineer, and a great one at that. My first encounter with Lucid was when i visited their Rodeo Drive studio in 2020 (I think). There, they have on display their highly compacted drive trains. Subsequently, I watched many of their online videos including Rawlinson's mega-Geeking-out on moto winding, 3-phase inverter drive, skin-effect, etc.. These videos brought me back to my sophomore/junior years in college!

Therefore, I expect Lucid to do a good job on the electro-mechanical aspects of Gravity as they did on the Air.

IMO, today's cars are computers on wheels. Excelling on the electro-mechanical part alone and being mediocre on the electronics and SW misses the boat.

 

[DeaneG]

If the choice turns out to be between a great SUV with poor software, or a very good SUV with very good software, I already know which I'll choose.

 

[Batteryman]

https://****************.com/lucid/...s-electric-suvs-available-none-are-very-good/

He is right on target in my opinion. The other EVs are very inefficient- don’t forget, Lucid is achieving this with a smaller battery and loads more space than a Rivian.

Rivian max battery pack 142.3 kWh for 410 miles range

Lucid Gravity battery pack 120 kWh for at least 440 mile range

Software is easily fixed, it’s the hardware that is most difficult. Handling and performance will be much better as well.

I know many here complain about software, but it’s 90% there, and I’m sure the Gravity will take it up a notch or two.

This will be a big hit! Everytime I see a picture of it, I get more excited to buy one!

 

[HC_79]

Watch this backfire when the first model off the line is going to be no doubt $150K+ and that's all people will associate to the brand. I get the reasoning for releasing the highest priced model first but a stigma comes with it that is hard to shake off. Peter has gone out and said "starting at" $80K, when the first model off the line is $150K+ he better put his money where his mouth is and get to that $80K variant ASAP. Lucid can't afford to drag its feet like it did getting from the Air Dream to Pure.

Lucid is very passionate about its engineering and rightfully so but in the real world not many people are as passionate. You can have an engineering marvel but if the software is mediocre, features are missing that come in other brands at the same price point what do you think people will choose?

You just need to look at the e-Tron and how well its done in the US to know that people clearly don't care about range or the engineering. They care about price and what they get in that price point.

 

[BS8899]

He is right on target in my opinion. The other EVs are very inefficient- don’t forget, Lucid is achieving this with a smaller battery and loads more space than a Rivian.

Rivian max battery pack 142.3 kWh for 410 miles range

Lucid Gravity battery pack 120 kWh for at least 440 mile range

Software is easily fixed, it’s the hardware that is most difficult. Handling and performance will be much better as well.

I know many here complain about software, but it’s 90% there, and I’m sure the Gravity will take it up a notch or two.

This will be a big hit! Everytime I see a picture of it, I get more excited to buy one!

Your quoted mileage and efficiency numbers are the manufacturer's claims, not what the typical driver experiences. There are several detailed studies (Out-of-Spec, CR, etc.) on this subject, I won't repeat. Suffice to say, Lucid is over-optimistic.

The Rivian is a larger and heavy-duty REAL SUV. It is rugged and off-road ready. Gravity looks like an SUV one would drive to Costco and the kids to soccer games. Don't take that as a diss. Most people who bought SUVs and use them for Costco and soccer practice transport.

 

[HC_79]

I know many here complain about software, but it’s 90% there, and I’m sure the Gravity will take it up a notch or two.

Don't under estimate how hard it is to do that final 10%

Software is easily fixed, it’s the hardware that is most difficult. Handling and performance will be much better as well.

Is it? We've seen a serious slow down in OTA's and a bunch of false promises on DDPro

He is right on target in my opinion. The other EVs are very inefficient- don’t forget, Lucid is achieving this with a smaller battery and loads more space than a Rivian.

Rivian max battery pack 142.3 kWh for 410 miles range

Lucid Gravity battery pack 120 kWh for at least 440 mile range

Completely agree. Lucid has mastered its efficiency and is probably the best in the world at it. It seems though that not a lot of people care as much when you see all the lower range cars still selling well. Audi's argument when the e-Tron came out with a 204 (90kW battery) mile EPA was "The average person doesn't drive more than 50 miles a day". It clearly worked for them because the e-Tron has been quite successful for Audi even with its abysmal range. It shows that not everyone cares about engineering \ range. Sometimes I wonder if Lucid's strategy would have been better to offer similar range EV's to its competitors but be able to undercut them on price because its got less battery in it which is the most expensive part of an EV. Instead, they've taken the other route and thrown everything at the wall on its range and not sure how well thats resonating with the general public over the die hards.

 

[Batteryman]

If the choice turns out to be between a great SUV with poor software, or a very good SUV with very good software, I already know which I'll choose.

Software in the Lucid Air is much better than a majority of cars out there. It’s 90-95% there. I don’t understand why people still complain about it. Yeah, homelink can be improved a bit, I carry both phone and key so key fob not an issue- apart from that, it’s perfect for everyday use.

Do I need camp mode or snow mode? No. I like my software to be simple and not give me too much information. Too complicated vehicle settings is not helpful either.

I drove a Rivian recently and software was good, but Lucid isn’t that bad either. Wish people with give credit where it’s due instead of echoing all the time.

Lucid has done a fabulous job so far!

 

[Batteryman]

Your quoted mileage and efficiency numbers are the manufacturer's claims, not what the typical driver experiences. There are several detailed studies (Out-of-Spec, CR, etc.) on this subject, I won't repeat. Suffice to say, Lucid is over-optimistic.

The Rivian is a larger and heavy-duty REAL SUV. It is rugged and off-road ready. Gravity looks like an SUV one would drive to Costco and the kids to soccer games. Don't take that as a diss. Most people who bought SUVs and use them for Costco and soccer practice transport.

They are EPA verified. Not just manufacturers claims. It depends on how you drive, elevation, climate etc. there is a reason we have EPA numbers. I get 3.6 miles per kWh with spirited driving….if I drive like a 90 year old, I would get at around 4 miles per kWh. Nothing beats that.

 

[BS8899]

Don't under estimate how hard it is to do that final 10%


Is it? We've seen a serious slow down in OTA's and a bunch of false promises on DDPro


Completely agree. Lucid has mastered its efficiency and is probably the best in the world at it. It seems though that not a lot of people care as much when you see all the lower range cars still selling well. Audi's argument when the e-Tron came out with a 204 (90kW battery) mile EPA was "The average person doesn't drive more than 50 miles a day". It clearly worked for them because the e-Tron has been quite successful for Audi even with its abysmal range. It shows that not everyone cares about engineering \ range. Sometimes I wonder if Lucid's strategy would have been better to offer similar range EV's to its competitors but be able to undercut them on price because its got less battery in it which is the most expensive part of an EV. Instead, they've taken the other route and thrown everything at the wall on its range and not sure how well thats resonating with the general public over the die hards.

On the point of OEM claimed range/efficiency vs actual, I strongly recommend you go read up on controlled experiments (not EPA # with fudge factors). Out-of-Spec, CR, and several others have done their detailed analysis.

In short, Tesla's and Lucid's claims in range and efficiency are the most over-stated among the popular EVs. Rivian is in the middle (i.e., mostly right on or slightly better than claimed). The German cars (BMW/MB), as a group often exceed their claimed efficiency and range.

So, please don't just that the EPA rating and the manufacturer's claims on face value.

 

[Batteryman]

Don't under estimate how hard it is to do that final 10%


Is it? We've seen a serious slow down in OTA's and a bunch of false promises on DDPro


Completely agree. Lucid has mastered its efficiency and is probably the best in the world at it. It seems though that not a lot of people care as much when you see all the lower range cars still selling well. Audi's argument when the e-Tron came out with a 204 (90kW battery) mile EPA was "The average person doesn't drive more than 50 miles a day". It clearly worked for them because the e-Tron has been quite successful for Audi even with its abysmal range. It shows that not everyone cares about engineering \ range. Sometimes I wonder if Lucid's strategy would have been better to offer similar range EV's to its competitors but be able to undercut them on price because its got less battery in it which is the most expensive part of an EV. Instead, they've taken the other route and thrown everything at the wall on its range and not sure how well thats resonating with the general public over the die hards.

I disagree, you need to create a brand image- Lucid is all about efficiency- so you come out with the most efficient longest range product in every category.If they had come out with a 300 mile range midsize, you think they could compete with all the other EVs out there? Being a new car company you need differentiation.

 

[xponents]

Software in the Lucid Air is much better than a majority of cars out there.

No. Simply no. It’s better in some places, such as the UX, but it lacks in terms of features and navigation.

 

[BS8899]

They are EPA verified. Not just manufacturers claims. It depends on how you drive, elevation, climate etc. there is a reason we have EPA numbers. I get 3.6 miles per kWh with spirited driving….if I drive like a 90 year old, I would get at around 4 miles per kWh. Nothing beats that.

Yes, there were many threads discussing this topic, I won't repeat. Go read up on the "fudge factors" in EPA 3 vs 5 cycle and the actual controlled test results. Don't take my word for it.

 

[Batteryman]

No. Simply no. It’s better in some places, such as the UX, but it lacks in terms of features and navigation.

CarPlay….i’m in the boat that car companies don’t need to invest in navigation etc…..leave that to Apple and google- they have billions of dollars invested into that. Even prefer CarPlay over Tesla interface.

 

[HC_79]

CarPlay….i’m in the boat that car companies don’t need to invest in navigation etc…..leave that to Apple and google- they have billions of dollars invested into that. Even prefer CarPlay over Tesla interface.

Let me know how well CarPlay navigates for you on a road trip. It's going to do real well in the Lucid when it programs in no charging stops along the route. I didn't buy an EV to then have to manually add in my charging stops because a navigation system can't do it.

 

[DeaneG]

CarPlay….i’m in the boat that car companies don’t need to invest in navigation etc…..leave that to Apple and google- they have billions of dollars invested into that. Even prefer CarPlay over Tesla interface.

I'll be two years into my GT ownership before Android Auto arrives. In the meantime, our Volvo's built in Google maps with EV charge planning, Google Assistant, Waze, Pocketcasts have been incomparably better than what the Air provides. It's night and day.

For this reason, and my perception that software isn't a priority at Lucid, I'll be looking at other SUV alternatives when the time comes.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Won't get past my AdBlock.
I don't read anything that is so precious it can't be seen unless you follow their privacy-hacking rules.
Assuming from the comments that there is nothing to see here.
SUVs are a crime against nature.
High and Mighty