GM released v2h

[DeaneG]

One thing I don't understand is the Lucid charger doesn't have a neutral.. I'm pretty sure that would be required for V2H to work. Someone with better electrical engineering skills can tell me I'm wrong.

Lucid's LCHCS will require a neutral-balancing autotransformer in addition to a transfer switch to be able to power a home. This is a standard technology for solar inverters which only output single phase 240VAC. The autotransformer is a large center-tapped inductor which creates a neutral that is forced to be midway between the 240V legs, regardless of 120V load imbalance. I didn't know this at first either, and was similarly perplexed as to how the LCHCS could work in the USA for V2H.

The Enphase system controller I'm planning to have installed in the next couple of months includes an autotransformer. Sadly it isn't likely to work with my Air if/when V2H is introduced.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

So do you know how much the "autotransformer" might cost?

 

[Adnillien]

So do you know how much the "autotransformer" might cost?

A 100A autotransformer is around $500 from solar stores.

 

[DeaneG]

A 100A autotransformer is around $500 from solar stores.

Agreed, and I'm guessing a box with both autotransformer and transfer switch would be around $1K. Add another $1-2K worth of permitting and installation.

A decent electrical engineer willing to risk their car's warranty could take the current V2V RangeXchange cable, build a J1772 car charge port emulator, add an autotransformer, and turn their Lucid into a 19.6kW backup generator (V2L). V2H requires that additional transfer switch and a day or so of installation.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Agreed, and I'm guessing a box with both autotransformer and transfer switch would be around $1K. Add another $1-2K worth of permitting and installation.

A decent electrical engineer willing to risk their car's warranty could take the current V2V RangeXchange cable, build a J1772 car charge port emulator, add an autotransformer, and turn their Lucid into a 19.6kW backup generator (V2L). V2H requires that additional transfer switch and a day or so of installation.

I have a full solar installation on my home so does that mean I have the autotransformer and transfer switch already installed? If so, can my LCHCS V2H/G piggyback on that existing installation??

 

[DeaneG]

I have a full solar installation on my home so does that mean I have the autotransformer and transfer switch already installed? If so, can my LCHCS V2H/G piggyback on that existing installation??

You'll have a transfer switch only if your home solar system has batteries that can power your home when PGE power is out.

If you do have home backup batteries already, it's unknown how or if Lucid's V2H solution would integrate with it, as no details have been released.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

You'll have a transfer switch only if your home solar system has batteries that can power your home when PGE power is out.

If you do have home backup batteries already, it's unknown how or if Lucid's V2H solution would integrate with it, as no details have been released.

Yeah I don't have the backup batteries because I was certain Lucid would release their V2H/V2G solution during 2022 but obviously I was wrong.

 

[DeaneG]

Yeah I don't have the backup batteries because I was certain Lucid would release their V2H/V2G solution during 2022 but obviously I was wrong.

Same here, I'm now going to Plan B and having new solar with battery backup installed, for the price of a midrange car after the 30% tax credit.

 

[Pragmatic]

Further press releases from GM

GM EVs to Support Bidirectional Charging

General Motors is kicking off a business to sell customers accessories that will allow them to power a home and other BEVs via bidirectional charging.

www.wardsauto.com

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Further press releases from GM

GM EVs to Support Bidirectional Charging

General Motors is kicking off a business to sell customers accessories that will allow them to power a home and other BEVs via bidirectional charging.

www.wardsauto.com

Yeah so it makes sense for GM and Ford and somehow they know how to do it. So what is the holdup Lucid?? At least give us some feedback on when/if we can expect this feature please.

 

[Pragmatic]

While GM is not yet selling everything needed, at least they are releasing a time table.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Yeah exactly my point!! We need better communication please. If its not going to happen then just tell us and we can arrange other alternatives.

 

[scal_air]

Lucid's LCHCS will require a neutral-balancing autotransformer in addition to a transfer switch to be able to power a home. This is a standard technology for solar inverters which only output single phase 240VAC. The autotransformer is a large center-tapped inductor which creates a neutral that is forced to be midway between the 240V legs, regardless of 120V load imbalance. I didn't know this at first either, and was similarly perplexed as to how the LCHCS could work in the USA for V2H.

The Enphase system controller I'm planning to have installed in the next couple of months includes an autotransformer. Sadly it isn't likely to work with my Air if/when V2H is introduced.

DeaneG, will you use the Enphase charger or is that included within the system controller? We had a 10 hour blackout two days ago and it would have been handy.
I don't know much about generators but I thought they were not for the whole house but selected appliances. I guess if you got a large enough generator...but I wonder what the cost would be?

 

[DeaneG]

DeaneG, will you use the Enphase charger or is that included within the system controller? We had a 10 hour blackout two days ago and it would have been handy.
I don't know much about generators but I thought they were not for the whole house but selected appliances. I guess if you got a large enough generator...but I wonder what the cost would be?

I'm planning to replace one of my two home chargers with the Enphase IQ, as it can modulate the car's charging rate to consume only excess solar generation - avoiding selling it back cheaply to my utility company. But it's unidirectional. We'll see how well this works.

Enphase has announced that they'll support bidirectional charging with compatible vehicles with a future Enphase product, but personally I wouldn't start holding your breath for it.

I'm also installing 25kWh of backup/load shifting batteries for while-house backup. A smaller battery would work for a selected-load backup, but wouldn't be as effective at shifting my home's total load in normal daily use. I need to load shift to avoid buying electricity from my utility at high rates.

Backup, either by battery or generator, can be for the whole house or just for a selected portion of the loads. Installation labor can cost as much as the equipment itself.

 

[Pittsburgher]

Hi All -

Thought I'd reignite this thread, to see if anyone has heard more vis-a-vis GM's V2H . . . i.e. does anyone know someone who has a qualifying GM vehicle that has used it in V2H mode ? Or whether GM is fulfilling orders / installing their $5600 V2H enablement kit ( A number of specific components, as described by DeaneG). The GM site had lot's of asterisks' (asterii ?) but you have to "sign in" (surprise surprise) to actually order one.

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Anyways - it was prompted by a discussion I had with a fairly knowledgeable electrician who (apparently unaware of the GM Announcement last April) said he did not think anyone had actually developed a working, commercialized system - and further said he thought they would still be years away - as the BEV mfg's are marketing on the "promise" of the capability but not wanting to take on the liability of it's function. Liability, he mentioned, including making sure there is a failsafe switching system that prevents power flow going back to the grid / utility line (to make sure not to electrocute line workers who in a power outage, have secured power off at there end, but would not have the ability to make sure every home is unable to send power back to the grid.

On a positive note, when I asked him about whole house generators, he said they do install those and they can run $15 -$20K turnkey, so $7-$8K ( $5600 + install ) for the GM system would seem to be a relative bargain ?

 

[TGO]

Let’s also not forget, that GM has a whole subsidiary GM Energy and a butt load of lawyers to get their stuff to market, while Lucid has a minuscule number of employees focused on this specific technology. It makes sense that Lucid would take a wait and see approach as this plays out.

My last house in Austin had a 24 KW natural gas whole house generator with a 200 amp Auto transfer switch and back in 2017 it was $10k installed. When, I went to price out a 26 KW propane whole house generator on my new home here in East Texas the quotes were from 18k to 22k for the complete install including a propane tank installed and 200 amp auto transfer switch.

I then priced out getting a SPAN electric panel and two Tesla powerwalls (no solar) and the quote was $36k, but qualified for the Fed Tax rebate bringing it on par with the generator albeit with a lot less capacity but the ability to add solar panels and/or a portable generator to just charge the batteries. I would of chosen this route but I personally don’t qualify for the fed rebate at this time.

IMO using your vehicle to electrify your house is not a permanent solution for backup power especially if it’s your only vehicle and to get the most out of it your vehicles batteries would need to be fully charged all the time it’s sitting at home. I would think of it as a backup to my permanent backup strategy.

I would think that connecting your EV to your home would be a similar setup as you would need for a portable gas/propane generator.