Range question

[bluegold85]

I'm new to the whole EV experience but one of the big selling points with Lucid was battery range. We've had our DE for a month now and only been driving local, charging with the "daily" setting. Yesterday we decided to take a trip out to see our son who is about 110 miles away. We had things charged up to about 78%, with miles reading 368 so figured no problem at all. Unfortunately, when we reached the destination the range was already down to 180 miles, having only completed the first leg. Most all the driving was 4 lanes or interstate driving between 65-80 MPH. We ended up stressing on the way home, but made it back with about 25 miles left on the battery indicator. So we start out with 368 miles of range for a 220 mile trip and barely make it back. Realizing that the range is an estimate and road conditions, speed, etc all factor into the actual range, we were shocked at how far off that calculation was. Are we missing something, or should we be talking to Lucid customer service?

 

[hmp10]

I take it from your figures that you have a Performance version with 19" tires?

EV range is highly variable depending on many factors. It's the same with gas-powered cars to some extent, but the ubiquity of gas stations causes people not to notice as much.

One of the big factors with an EV is outside temperature. How cold was it?

Speed is also a big factor. Driving 80 mph consumes 11-13% more energy than driving at 70 mph, which is the maximum speed any range tester uses (for legal reasons).

Also, maximum range is provided in "Smooth" mode, which has the lowest horsepower and torque output. Which mode were you using?

Your case does sound a little extreme, so it might be worth a call to Lucid to get their take. The kind of numbers you experienced are more like the experience I have had with our Teslas, and the Lucid should do a bit better.

 

[Mountain Man]

How cold was it? In Colorado, the range in my Model S gets eaten up very, very quickly. Last night it was 10 degrees and my car said 163 miles of range but barely made it 85 miles before I had to detour to a supercharger. This is life with EVs, and you get used to charging to max before going very far away. BUT… the Air should certainly have better energy consumption than my 4-year old MS…

 

[spucci]

Other factors that can contribute:

• How steady was your speed on the trip? When you decelerated, did you use the brakes a lot? When you accelerated, did you accelerate quickly?
• How much up and down (altitude change)?
• Was there a strong wind? (a 10mph headwind is equivalent to driving 10mph faster, and you don't get it all back going the other way)

 

[Lucken]

Almost all of these EV range issues also impact ICE vehicles. They're not unique to EVs.

 

[bluegold85]

I take it from your figures that you have a Performance version with 19" tires?

EV range is highly variable depending on many factors. It's the same with gas-powered cars to some extent, but the ubiquity of gas stations causes people not to notice as much.

One of the big factors with an EV is outside temperature. How cold was it?

Speed is also a big factor. Driving 80 mph consumes 11-13% more energy than driving at 70 mph, which is the maximum speed any range tester uses (for legal reasons).

Also, maximum range is provided in "Smooth" mode, which has the lowest horsepower and torque output. Which mode were you using?

Your case does sound a little extreme, so it might be worth a call to Lucid to get their take. The kind of numbers you experienced are more like the experience I have had with our Teslas, and the Lucid should do a bit better.

Have 21" tires and weather was in the 50's but dropped to the low 40's on the trip back. We had it in smooth the entire trip and I was expecting some degradation in performance, but more than 30% seemed extreme.

 

[bluegold85]

How cold was it? In Colorado, the range in my Model S gets eaten up very, very quickly. Last night it was 10 degrees and my car said 163 miles of range but barely made it 85 miles before I had to detour to a supercharger. This is life with EVs, and you get used to charging to max before going very far away. BUT… the Air should certainly have better energy consumption than my 4-year old MS…

It was above 40 the entire trip. In the 50's for most of it.

 

[Mountain Man]

I think you should call Lucid. Range is their biggest bragging right currently. They will want to know if there’s an issue.

 

[hmp10]

Almost all of these EV range issues also impact ICE vehicles. They're not unique to EVs.

True, except that an ICE gets more efficient in colder weather.

Cold weather might exact a bit more of a range penalty with the Air than with a newer Tesla. Tesla switched to heat pumps for cabin heating a few years back, but Lucid changed its plans and stayed with resistance heating for the cabin, which can be a big battery drain. Tesla used to recommend -- as Lucid now does -- using the seat heaters in order to keep the ambient cabin temperature set lower during cold weather.

 

[MikeTz]

Have 21" tires and weather was in the 50's but dropped to the low 40's on the trip back. We had it in smooth the entire trip and I was expecting some degradation in performance, but more than 30% seemed extreme.

It is also a good idea to check the tire pressure. The tire pressure drops considerably with temperature. Most people don't bother checking. I started testing the miles/kWh on the DEP by resetting the trip B every time I am on a clear 70MPH flat surface. The best I am able to achieve is 3.3 Miles/kWh. Temperatures in the mid to high 70's. The same run on the Plaid yields around 3.1Miles/kWh. The runs were not made on the same day. Truth be told I much prefer driving the DEP so I only made one run with the plaid. Both were at 80% SOC where I like to keep it. BTW this Milwaukee compressor is the best I have ever used and it is worth every penny. This is the compressor the TESLA rangers use when servicing the cars.

 

[Lucken]

True, except that an ICE gets more efficient in colder weather.

Cold weather might exact a bit more of a range penalty with the Air than with a newer Tesla. Tesla switched to heat pumps for cabin heating a few years back, but Lucid changed its plans and stayed with resistance heating for the cabin, which can be a big battery drain. Tesla used to recommend -- as Lucid now does -- using the seat heaters in order to keep the ambient cabin temperature set lower during cold weather.

I don’t think that’s the case with ICE vehicles. Any ICE car I’ve ever driven gets less mpg in the winter than it does in the warmer weather. As an example, my wife’s Sonata Hybrid gets in the low 50s in the warmer weather, yet struggles to get into the upper 30s in the winter. We just ended two days of 50 degree temperatures and her mpg rose to the low to mid 40s.

Now if you’re saying that EVs suffer more in the colder weather than ICE vehicles, that‘s probably true in most cases.

Regarding heating, there’s no way I would sacrifice comfort to extract a bit more range. Using the seat heaters is a poor substitute for cabin heat, whether Tesla or Lucid recommends it or not.

If it’s a dire range emergency on the road, that’s a different story.

 

[Lucken]

It is also a good idea to check the tire pressure. The tire pressure drops considerably with temperature. Most people don't bother checking. I started testing the miles/kWh on the DEP by resetting the trip B every time I am on a clear 70MPH flat surface. The best I am able to achieve is 3.3 Miles/kWh. Temperatures in the mid to high 70's. The same run on the Plaid yields around 3.1Miles/kWh. The runs were not made on the same day. Truth be told I much prefer driving the DEP so I only made one run with the plaid. Both were at 80% SOC where I like to keep it. BTW this Milwaukee compressor is the best I have ever used and it is worth every penny. This is the compressor the TESLA rangers use when servicing the cars.

That certainly wouldn’t yield anywhere near the advertised EPA range or the 500 mile range achieved in a recent test that was linked here. Granted you have a DEP, but still, the numbers are not where I’d expect, especially given the ideal temps you had during your testing.

Aside from that carefully controlled 500 mile range test, I don’t see any owner here getting anything like that.

 

[Sandvinsd]

That certainly wouldn’t yield anywhere near the advertised EPA range or the 500 mile range achieved in a recent test that was linked here. Granted you have a DEP, but still, the numbers are not where I’d expect, especially given the ideal temps you had during your testing.

Aside from that carefully controlled 500 mile range test, I don’t see any owner here getting anything like that.

This was a Dream Performance so the EPA range is 451, not 500 And he was starting out at only 78% Nonetheless, he should have had more mileage with it. Rule of thumb would be 70 or 80% of the EPA, but he was getting below 60%. Lucid can check it, but I would guess that he would have had poor range no matter what EV he was driving. if he had a Tesla (or any other EV for that matter), it would not have made the round trip without requiring a charge. So be glad you had a Lucid Air.

Many on this board have scoffed at me for saying one needs 500 miles or 1000km MINIMUM on EVs by saying it is overkill, one needs to take stops, you would never drive for that long without stopping, etc. The fact of the matter is that you need this range for trips and when the conditions or driving habits prevent one from optimizing the mileage.

 

[hmp10]

I don’t think that’s the case with ICE vehicles.

It's not the case with ICE vehicles. It is, however, the case with internal combustion engines, other factors being equal, as colder air contains more oxygen for combustion, and an internal combustion engine works, in part, off the temperature differential between intake air and exhaust air.

There are many reasons an internal combustion vehicle gets lower mileage in winter, however: it takes longer to bring an engine's temperature into its optimal operating range; oil and fluids are more viscose during longer warmups; colder air slightly increases aerodynamic drag; winter gas formulations have lower energy density than summer gas formulations, etc. (And EPA data shows the winter drag on overall vehicle efficiency is even greater with hybrid vehicles, such as your wife's Sonata.)

 

[Steveinarizona]

This was a Dream Performance so the EPA range is 451, not 500 And he was starting out at only 78% Nonetheless, he should have had more mileage with it. Rule of thumb would be 70 or 80% of the EPA, but he was getting below 60%. Lucid can check it, but I would guess that he would have had poor range no matter what EV he was driving. if he had a Tesla (or any other EV for that matter), it would not have made the round trip without requiring a charge. So be glad you had a Lucid Air.

Many on this board have scoffed at me for saying one needs 500 miles or 1000km MINIMUM on EVs by saying it is overkill, one needs to take stops, you would never drive for that long without stopping, etc. The fact of the matter is that you need this range for trips and when the conditions or driving habits prevent one from optimizing the mileage.

I was driving today on a multilane highway. I set my cruise control for 77 and I would say that 95% of the cars passed me and some blew by me. Even testing at 70 MPH is not realistic and I would not buy a car with 480/620/1100 HP and then hypermile it.

I want the large range because I want to drive the car like I hate it; I do not want to baby it to save range.

 

[Coltonw011]

Like a lot of people have said here, altitude change, using climate, larger rims, headwinds all factor into your range. If you were pushing 80 mph into a headwind, god speed with your range on 21” wheels no matter how aerodynamic the car is. The car is so new it’s tough to tell if you have an issue or not. I would imagine if you called them they could check it out. My 2019 Model S on 21” (373 RR) never once came close to that and I’m in sunny norcal getting optimal weather and relatively flat terrain. I am fortunate that I can get away with just the heated seats/steering wheel because resistance heating is hard on it. Bottom line, no shame on calling and asking Lucid directly.

 

[MikeTz]

I am surprised how many EV owners misinterpret the range shown on their dash. The range shown at any time is based on algorithms that depend heavily on the average range from the last trip(s). If you are driving around town and are getting 4 miles/kWh and have a 80% charge the car estimates a range of 375 miles. this is dead on if you keep driving at the same pace until you drain the battery but all bets are off once you start driving at high speed. I haircut the first leg of any long highway run by 25-30% depending on the weather.

 

[hydbob]

I was driving today on a multilane highway. I set my cruise control for 77 and I would say that 95% of the cars passed me and some blew by me. Even testing at 70 MPH is not realistic and I would not buy a car with 480/620/1100 HP and then hypermile it.

I want the large range because I want to drive the car like I hate it; I do not want to baby it to save range.

Tru dat. Only reason to test it at 70 is just as a benchmark against the other cars they tested. I'm perfectly happy with the range of the DEP for my geographic region. If I want I can make the majority of my trips with 1 charge only which is how many stops I make in my ICE car as well.

 

[hmp10]

Many on this board have scoffed at me for saying one needs 500 miles or 1000km MINIMUM on EVs by saying it is overkill, one needs to take stops, you would never drive for that long without stopping, etc. The fact of the matter is that you need this range for trips and when the conditions or driving habits prevent one from optimizing the mileage.

Exactly.

After six years of driving two Tesla Model S's, and giving Lucid credit for attaining more of its EPA range than Tesla, I use the following formula for planning road trips at realistic highway speeds (80 mph):

EPA mileage x .70 x. 80.

The .70 comes from charging the battery to 90% and planning to recharge close to 20% SOC, thus using 70% of the pack's capacity. I use these limits for several reasons. Charging that last 10% takes an inordinate amount of extra time at the charging station. Planning on a 20% margin leaves wiggle room for finding a charger at the right location; encountering suboptimal weather, terrain, and traffic conditions; and avoiding low-battery stress.

The .80 comes from two things. The 4% EPA miss that Tom Moloughney found in his 70-mph range test, and the extra 11-13% range loss that comes from the aerodynamic drag for that extra 10 mph above 70 that I usually drive on interstates and other limited-access highways.

Thus, with the Dream Performance on 21" wheels on a long road trip:

451 miles EPA rating x .70 x .80 = 252 miles.

I view this as a worst-case range. In planning trips, it allows for over three hours of driving at 80 mph (which is more than I'd want to do without a break, anyway); gives some flexibility in choosing where to recharge; and removes worry about unforeseen events along the way.

It also means I can do our most-frequent road trip (across the state from Naples to the Miami area) there and back without any charging along the way, with plenty of room to roam the Miami area. We could only do that in our Tesla Model S Plaid by charging to 100%, driving more conservatively, and risking some nail-biting on the way home.

 

[Paladin732]

We just did a round trip of about 250 mi this weekend using mostly cruise control at 70 to see how close to epa we could get.

Ended the weekend with 3.4 (or 89% or the EPA rating assuming 3.4 x 118kwh, 401miles)

The interesting this is when DRIVING the car, we tend to average 2.8-3.0. So ACC on highway driving produces dramatically more efficient usage. This is great for a long road trip, but given how large the range is, doesn’t super matter for general driving.