Lucid Air Sapphire Drag Race

[jabbahop]

I find it weird when people say "the model s plaid is half the price of the sapphire, and its almost as fast". Ok, it costs half as much... but two model s plaids still wont beat one sapphire. its not like owning two model s plaids will make it go twice as fast. you pay more, you get more. and just because tesla thinks its fastest car is worth "x", doesn't mean lucid has to think their fastest car has to be the same price too. they arent the same company

or put another way you would own TWO cars that are slower than sapphire but some day you could play video games in the back seat ;-)

 

[HC_79]

I find it weird when people say "the model s plaid is half the price of the sapphire, and it’s almost as fast". Ok, it costs half as much... but two model s plaids still wont beat one sapphire. its not like owning two model s plaids will make it go twice as fast. you pay more, you get more. and just because tesla thinks its fastest car is worth "x", doesn't mean lucid has to think their fastest car has to be the same price too. they arent the same company

Let’s be honest here, while they haven’t directly said it, Lucid is clearly going after Tesla. Peter has mentioned “We won’t have production hell” “this large/heavy motor is from a US EV company? Wow”. He never calls Tesla out directly but you can see the rivalry is there. Also why Elon throws shade back.

So…… with that being said. Lucid went out to beat the Plaid and I fully suspect the true specs are being hidden until it’s released to stop Tesla trying to beat it. Pissing contest complete! but what you can’t deny is that you’re going to pay a pretty penny for it. If they want to beat Tesla then it can’t just be on specs they need to be price competitive and the Sapphire is not.

The Sapphire is impressive but it goes the complete opposite direction Lucid should be heading, which is to get into a cheaper price point to be competitive.

 

[Volund]

I

I find it weird when people say "the model s plaid is half the price of the sapphire, and its almost as fast". Ok, it costs half as much... but two model s plaids still wont beat one sapphire. its not like owning two model s plaids will make it go twice as fast. you pay more, you get more. and just because tesla thinks its fastest car is worth "x", doesn't mean lucid has to think their fastest car has to be the same price too. they arent the same company

I just mean it's a no brainer that the sapphire would beat it because the dream performance variant that the plaid barely beat was a dual motor, and the Tesla Model S Plaid is a triple motor and people forget that.
That's the part which needs to be advertised.
And at the extra price point need to highlight that Lucid going triple motor not only wiped the floor with the Tesla, but also has 10x the luxury on the interior, and carbon ceramic brakes.
I think those points need to be emphasized.

 

[Volund]

Let’s be honest here, while they haven’t directly said it, Lucid is clearly going after Tesla. Peter has mentioned “We won’t have production hell” “this large/heavy motor is from a US EV company? Wow”. He never calls Tesla out directly but you can see the rivalry is there. Also why Elon throws shade back.

So…… with that being said. Lucid went out to beat the Plaid and I fully suspect the true specs are being hidden until it’s released to stop Tesla trying to beat it. Pissing contest complete! but what you can’t deny is that you’re going to pay a pretty penny for it. If they want to beat Tesla then it can’t just be on specs they need to be price competitive and the Sapphire is not.

The Sapphire is impressive but it goes the complete opposite direction Lucid should be heading, which is to get into a cheaper price point to be competitive.

I don't know if I 100% agree with this.

Beating Tesla speaks volumes on the brand recognition.
People like MKBHD are making it known more and everyone likes comparing to Tesla.

On that note, as I just said above, it proves Lucid is more efficient (destroying the plaid with the Same amount of motors, and getting way more range too)

Assuming the interior of the Sapphire is as luxurious if not even more luxurious (or even the same) as the Dream editions. I think the body and interior is pretty much the same, color change, carbon ceramic breaks, and making room for a triple motor in the drive train.

But otherwise it wasn't a super huge sacrifice to make the Sapphire and with the simple extras I just mentioned, I think they could be doing both at the same time, working on a cheaper model while also making the Sapphire
Just a guess though

 

[Artemis]

The Sapphire is impressive but it goes the complete opposite direction Lucid should be heading, which is to get into a cheaper price point to be competitive.

lucid has made it pretty obvious they want to go cheaper asap. but at the same time they need money to build things out, especially since everybody thinks they'll go bust because they don't have enough money (btw the PIF has an order of up to 100k cars, so personally I don't think they'll run out of money for some time). so making an expensive car to make some extra money makes perfect sense in my head. there are so many small electric car startups targeting the $25k range, but realistically, the profit they make per car will be so small they won't be able to achieve scale ie, they wont have the money to build a massive factories etc.

lucid is pretty obviously following tesla's path: large sedan, large SUV, then moving onto smaller sedans and SUVs. their rivalry is obvious, and their motive is clear: beat tesla at their own game. their determination makes me confident that they'll do whatever it takes to succeed.

 

[hmp10]

Jason Camissa hit the drag strip with a Sapphire, a Model S Plaid, a Bugatti Chiron, and a Ducati racing bike.

Oops. Sorry for the earlier post. I missed this thread. Don't know how that happened?

 

[hmp10]

Assuming the interior of the Sapphire is as luxurious if not even more luxurious (or even the same) as the Dream editions. I think the body and interior is pretty much the same, color change, carbon ceramic breaks, and making room for a triple motor in the drive train.

But otherwise it wasn't a super huge sacrifice to make the Sapphire and with the simple extras I just mentioned, I think they could be doing both at the same time, working on a cheaper model while also making the Sapphire.

Lucid VP Zak Edson told me that the Air platform was designed to take up to four motors, so I don't think there was much in the way of chassis modification for the tri-motor car. Edson added, however, that there were no plans actually to put four motors in the Air but instead to reserve that configuration for a future truck built on the same chassis. Or maybe a performance version of the Gravity SUV . . . ?

From early days, Peter Rawlinson has said the Lucid business plan was to get a foothold in the market by building brand reputation via products at the high end of the market, as those models would provide the margin needed to get the company through its initial financial stresses. With the resulting brand recognition it would then be easier to meet the much larger capital demands of mass production of lower-margin (i. e., less expensive) cars.

I think right now Lucid is still in the brand-building stage, especially as fewer Lucids have made it onto the highways thus far than was hoped. And a product such as the Sapphire, which dusts the best Tesla has brought to bear after 10 years in the market, is just the ticket to take the brand recognition to the next level. While most of the customers for more economical cars cannot afford a Sapphire, many of them will be proud to have their cars bear the same brand name as the mighty Sapphire.

Many buyers aspire to the totally underwhelming Mercedes GLA, not because the car itself is anything special, but because their car will have the same 3-pointed star on it as an S-Class or AMG variant.

 

[Team Geezer]

So! How many Sapphire owners are planning on hitting the track this weekend?

 

[Tesla2.0]

Lucid VP Zak Edson told me that the Air platform was designed to take up to four motors, so I don't think there was much in the way of chassis modification for the tri-motor car. Edson added, however, that there were no plans actually to put four motors in the Air but instead to reserve that configuration for a future truck built on the same chassis. Or maybe a performance version of the Gravity SUV . . . ?

From early days, Peter Rawlinson has said the Lucid business plan was to get a foothold in the market by building brand reputation via products at the high end of the market, as those models would provide the margin needed to get the company through its initial financial stresses. With the resulting brand recognition it would then be easier to meet the much larger capital demands of mass production of lower-margin (i. e., less expensive) cars.

I think right now Lucid is still in the brand-building stage, especially as fewer Lucids have made it onto the highways thus far than was hoped. And a product such as the Sapphire, which dusts the best Tesla has brought to bear after 10 years in the market, is just the ticket to take the brand recognition to the next level. While most of the customers for more economical cars cannot afford a Sapphire, many of them will be proud to have their cars bear the same brand name as the mighty Sapphire.

Many buyers aspire to the totally underwhelming Mercedes GLA, not because the car itself is anything special, but because their car will have the same 3-pointed star on it as an S-Class or AMG variant.

This strategy makes a lot of sense to me. And I myself can relate to my first Mercedes 20 years ago. I couldn’t afford S-Class nor SL-Class, but a red SLK-Class made me feel the thrill of milestone accomplishment.

 

[hmp10]

So! How many Sapphire owners are planning on hitting the track this weekend?

Probably about as many as Tesla Roadster owners who put down deposits in 2017.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

I

I just mean it's a no brainer that the sapphire would beat it because the dream performance variant that the plaid barely beat was a dual motor, and the Tesla Model S Plaid is a triple motor and people forget that.
That's the part which needs to be advertised.
And at the extra price point need to highlight that Lucid going triple motor not only wiped the floor with the Tesla, but also has 10x the luxury on the interior, and carbon ceramic brakes.
I think those points need to be emphasized.

Lucid engineering has spanked Tesla. Tesla (and everyone in the EV game) will have to clean-sheet their engineering to catch up. Competition is wonderful, nitcht var?

re carbon brakes: are absurd off the track, but goodness sakes I miss them. They take a long time to get used to (sensitive and hard ass like hitting a wall they way they grab), and if you alternate driving with normal car with iron rotors it will take even longer. But, they look fantastic, don't dump dust all over your wheels, don't seem to wear at all, and did I mention they look so macho ?

 

[Team Geezer]

Probably about as many as Tesla Roadster owners who put down deposits in 2017.

Or those that paid the entire $250K to reserve the Founder's Edition of the Roadster.

 

[RM-S8]

So! How many Sapphire owners are planning on hitting the track this weekend?

Hoping you DO realize, Sapphire is not on sale yet?

 

[joec]

Hoping you DO realize, Sapphire is not on sale yet?

I think that was his point. As he keeps reminding us with just about every post.

 

[hmp10]

Lucid engineering has spanked Tesla. Tesla (and everyone in the EV game) will have to clean-sheet their engineering to catch up. Competition is wonderful, nitcht var?

re carbon brakes: are absurd off the track, but goodness sakes I miss them. They take a long time to get used to (sensitive and hard ass like hitting a wall they way they grab), and if you alternate driving with normal car with iron rotors it will take even longer. But, they look fantastic, don't dump dust all over your wheels, don't seem to wear at all, and did I mention they look so macho ?

For driving on public roads with regen set to high, I almost never have to use the brake pedal, so the testy dynamics of carbon brakes would seldom come much into play with me. However, their significant reduction in unsprung weight would pay dividends in all kinds of driving.

 

[victoryroad]

For driving on public roads with regen set to high, I almost never have to use the brake pedal, so the testy dynamics of carbon brakes would seldom come much into play with me. However, their significant reduction in unsprung weight would pay dividends in all kinds of driving.

Unsprung weight definitely is a benefit of lighter CCB discs. What is the unsprung weight of Lucid cast iron discs and that of CCB discs? Not sure how much practical difference the lower unsprung weight would be in normal driving on public roads. FWIW, I never experienced any "testy dynamics" with the PCCBs on my 991 Turbo S either on public roads or tracks. As to brake dust from iron discs, there is very little because of the high regenerative brake setting available on our AGTs.

 

[Overcharged]

Lucid engineering has spanked Tesla. Tesla (and everyone in the EV game) will have to clean-sheet their engineering to catch up. Competition is wonderful, nitcht var?

re carbon brakes: are absurd off the track, but goodness sakes I miss them. They take a long time to get used to (sensitive and hard ass like hitting a wall they way they grab), and if you alternate driving with normal car with iron rotors it will take even longer. But, they look fantastic, don't dump dust all over your wheels, don't seem to wear at all, and did I mention they look so macho ?

I have CF brakes on my Gen 2 NSX and have never been on the track. They are just fantastic all the time.

 

[hmp10]

Interesting article on carbon brake discs:

Are carbon ceramic brake discs better than iron? | Essex Parts Services, Inc.

That depends on how you plan to use them!

www.essexparts.com

Remember that the Sapphire does not use the more common carbon matrix disc, but rather one of continuously woven carbon fibers. I can't really tell from this article into which materials category that puts the Sapphire brakes.

 

[TomFish]

I find it weird when people say "the model s plaid is half the price of the sapphire, and its almost as fast". Ok, it costs half as much... but two model s plaids still wont beat one sapphire. its not like owning two model s plaids will make it go twice as fast. you pay more, you get more. and just because tesla thinks its fastest car is worth "x", doesn't mean lucid has to think their fastest car has to be the same price too. they arent the same company

We could buy four Chevy Bolts for $110K and go 0-60 in 7.1 sec / 4 = 1.78 seconds which would be faster for less than half the price.

 

[hmp10]

We could buy four Chevy Bolts for $110K and go 0-60 in 7.1 sec / 4 = 1.78 seconds which would be faster for less than half the price.

Good observation.

I can't resist pointing out, though, that a friend is currently trying to negotiate the purchase of a new Chevy Bolt. The deal he's been offered at the only nearby dealer that can/will actually sell him a car includes the following fees, amounting to almost $1,500:

Tire Fee: $5.00
Electronic Filing Fee: $53.20
Title Fee: $78.25
Documentation Fee: $599.95
Battery Fee: $1.50
Est. Registration Fee: $656.00
Private Tag Fee: $99.00

Every Chevy dealer within a 200-mile radius was showing Bolts on their websites as available at the prices listed. Calls revealed that most of those dealers had no Bolts in stock, and those that did wanted more than MRSP.

To me, there's something much more honest about listing a car for $249,000 dollars and actually selling it for that -- along with only standard transaction fees -- than the sleazy bait-and-switch advertising typical of so many ICE dealers. At least with Lucid, you'll never have to negotiate to get absurdly-priced "mandatory options" such as paint and upholstery protection or stripe decals removed from the deal.