Wife got an R1S. Software envy increased

[msaunders9430]

It would appear from sales that approximately 3x the number of people like Rivian more than Lucid.

The question is the reason for the like.

A simple explanation for that could be pure economics.
The closest comparable R1S to my Gravity costs $25k less.

From sales probably 20x the number of people like a Ford Explorer more than Lucid.
We could keep going, but if we look at direct competitors, Lucid is doing quite well.

I'm not trying to find and buy the top selling car in a market segment.
I'm looking for the car I like.

What do I care?
Everybody spending their own money.

 

[Leftlane]

All true - but if you make a statement that it’s butt ugly and you pity Rivian owners, and yet it sells in much higher numbers than the one you think is better looking, then maybe you are the one who is wrong.

Or - maybe people consider the whole package, which obviously includes functionality, reliability and usability in addition to appearance. That, plus the cost, surely has to weigh on most people’s decisions, no? “We’d sell just as many if we were priced lower” is weak sauce because those are decisions that Lucid made that automatically limited their market.

R2 versus Earth/Cosmos will be very telling. Rivian is beating Lucid to the punch so let’s see how sales go when they are both available in the same segment. I’m pulling for both to knock it out of the park because I like more choices and I also like the competition that drives innovation. I do get tired of people banging on Tesla and Rivian just because they happen to own a Lucid - makes zero sense to me.

 

[Need4Sleep]

All true - but if you make a statement that it’s butt ugly and you pity Rivian owners, and yet it sells in much higher numbers than the one you think is better looking, then maybe you are the one who is wrong.

Or - maybe people consider the whole package, which obviously includes functionality, reliability and usability in addition to appearance. That, plus the cost, surely has to weigh on most people’s decisions, no? “We’d sell just as many if we were priced lower” is weak sauce because those are decisions that Lucid made that automatically limited their market.

R2 versus Earth/Cosmos will be very telling. Rivian is beating Lucid to the punch so let’s see how sales go when they are both available in the same segment. I’m pulling for both to knock it out of the park because I like more choices and I also like the competition that drives innovation. I do get tired of people banging on Tesla and Rivian just because they happen to own a Lucid - makes zero sense to me.

Personally I think there's enough of a market for Cosmos and R2 to co-exist. Cosmos is meant for on-road comfort and dynamics, while the R2 (to an extension, Rivian as a whole), is focused on off-roading.

I think the real head-to-head between Rivian and Lucid will be between R2/R3 and Earth/to-be-announced

 

[Lucidicrous]

Personally I think Lucid’s Gravity market are consumers with high net-worth. Would these owners of exotic cars looking for a viable SUV choose superior hardware but mediocre software or one with superior software but mediocre hardware?

These people won’t touch a midsize.

 

[Leftlane]

Personally I think Lucid’s Gravity market are consumers with high net-worth. Would these owners of exotic cars looking for a viable SUV choose superior hardware but mediocre software or one with superior software but mediocre hardware?

These people won’t touch a midsize.

They’d just buy an ICE Lambo or Bentley or Porsche and call it a day.

 

[DBV]

even Tesla took 7 years to even include waypoints to the nav system- I think we will see big improvements over the next 2 years

Well Rivian moved faster than that and Lucid and they started about the same time as Lucid. So, to me that says something and that it can be done fast. This is not Tesla solo days anymore. Lots of competition and even more coming when the new BMW’s come out, etc that have established, polished software.

 

[BS8899]

Well Rivian moved faster than that and Lucid and they started about the same time as Lucid. So, to me that says something and that it can be done fast. This is not Tesla solo days anymore. Lots of competition and even more coming when the new BMW’s come out, etc that have established, polished software.

I own a 2022 Lucid AGT and a 2023 Rivian. Thoughts:

> in terms of style, "luxury", and drive dynamics, Lucid is better.
> in terms of SW, reliability, resale value, utility and dependability, Rivian wins hands-down!
> Yesterday, in a Total Wines parking lot, I was parked next to a Model Y. The owner was approaching. He said his lease is up and he is considering a Lucid. Would I receommnd Lucid.

 

[BS8899]

I own a 2022 Lucid AGT and a 2023 Rivian. Thoughts:

> in terms of style, "luxury", and drive dynamics, Lucid is better.
> in terms of SW, reliability, resale value, utility and dependability, Rivian wins hands-down!
> Yesterday, in a Total Wines parking lot, I was parked next to a Model Y. The owner was approaching. He said his lease is up and he is considering a Lucid. Would I recommend Lucid.

I told him NO!
My Rivian R1S, at almost 60% the acquisition cost of my Lucid, has performed flawlessly. The Rivian has more functioning features than the Lucid (e.g., actually functioning highway assist, front/rear cameras, reliable door lock, etc. etc.). Some of the promised/implied features on the Lucid Air has yet to materialize; and likely never will.
My concern is, when you compare Gravity intro vs Lucid intro, the ethos have ne not improved, arguably worse! I think it is a culture problem.

 

[tmichael]

When those buyers compare Rivian vs Lucid…
which company’s software reputation is going to help them win?

I certainly agree to your general point, however I think the more mass market is going to read about the midsize software as it runs when the car is being sold. I’m not convinced the Gravity early software problems will be considered if the midsize is introduced with robust software. I believe the possibility exists, if they allow the midsize software to adequately mature and the car isn’t brought to market too early.

 

[DeaneG]

I told him NO!...

That's too bad. I may be tempting fate, but my Gravity feels pretty well sorted. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

 

[TahoeMichael]

The question is the reason for the like.

A simple explanation for that could be pure economics.
The closest comparable R1S to my Gravity costs $25k less.

...

I'm not convinced that economics plays into it that much. The GGT config I'm interested in is most comparable to an R1S tri-motor. Optioned the way I'd like it is $116,490 for the R1S, $116,500 for the GGT. Incentives and financing will doubtless differ.

I'm personally inclined to agree with Borski: sedans just aren't selling as well as SUVs in the USA. This time next year we'll be able to see how R1S sales compare to Gravity, and that'll give a clearer picture of how the two brands compete when they go head to head.

 

[DeaneG]

...Optioned the way I'd like it is $116,490 for the R1S, $166,500 for the GGT.

Is there a typo?

 

[Adnillien]

That's too bad. I may be tempting fate, but my Gravity feels pretty well sorted. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

I completely agree here.

 

[TahoeMichael]

...

And here’s the uncomfortable reality:

The things Lucid absolutely excels at (range, efficiency, charging performance, driving dynamics) are the things only die-hards like us really obsess over. The broader market doesn’t shop that way.

They care about:

• how intuitive the car feels
• how polished the software is
• whether features actually show up when promised

Lucid built an engineering masterpiece, in my opinion nothing competes with it, but if that experience doesn’t translate to something customers feel every day, it won’t resonate at scale.

So the question is simple:

When those buyers compare Rivian vs Lucid…
which company’s software reputation is going to help them win?

I think all those factors matter. But I think a lot of people do value what Lucid is selling. It's easy to fall into doom and gloom about Lucid's execution challenges. But we also shouldn't lose sight of the Air pretty well whipping all the competition. The Gravity's launch fiasco is weighing on all our minds pretty heavily. But I think that this time next year we may be seeing a different mood, and very robust Gravity sales.

 

[TahoeMichael]

Is there a typo?

Yes! I fixed it. They both come in around $116K.

 

[tmichael]

I think all those factors matter. But I think a lot of people do value what Lucid is selling. It's easy to fall into doom and gloom about Lucid's execution challenges. But we also shouldn't lose sight of the Air pretty well whipping all the competition. The Gravity's launch fiasco is weighing on all our minds pretty heavily. But I think that this time next year we may be seeing a different mood, and very robust Gravity sales.

Nah, we’ll still be complaining about something!

 

[Leftlane]

I certainly agree to your general point, however I think the more mass market is going to read about the midsize software as it runs when the car is being sold. I’m not convinced the Gravity early software problems will be considered if the midsize is introduced with robust software. I believe the possibility exists, if they allow the midsize software to adequately mature and the car isn’t brought to market too early.

I guess you don’t remember that people said the exact same thing about the Air software problems and how much more robust it would be with the Gravity.

 

[borski]

R2 versus Earth/Cosmos will be very telling. Rivian is beating Lucid to the punch so let’s see how sales go when they are both available in the same segment. I’m pulling for both to knock it out of the park because I like more choices and I also like the competition that drives innovation. I do get tired of people banging on Tesla and Rivian just because they happen to own a Lucid - makes zero sense to me.

To be clear - I really like Rivian. I don't own one, but many of my friends do, and they like their cars, by and large. I have issues with Tesla, and those should be obvious (and unrelated to their dear leader; they no longer make good cars, period, and their cars were never luxury to start, but I digress).

I also eagerly await the competition. I have said on this forum over and over that more competition is better than less competition, and I want Rivian to do well. I also want Lucid to do well. In fact, I also want Tesla to do well - I just wish they made cars still, instead of hopium.

But Rivian is solid, even if it isn't my cup of tea; a vehicle for a different driver, for sure.

I, too, am hopeful they both knock it out of the park.

 

[borski]

That's too bad. I may be tempting fate, but my Gravity feels pretty well sorted. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

Same. And anyone that has driven ours (including a buddy that borrowed it to tow) has walked away seriously impressed.

Like I said, different vehicles for different drivers.

(And, clearly, there may be a consistency problem, as there was in the early days of the Air, but that will hopefully be sorted by midsize)

While anyone is welcome to tell anyone else how they really feel, I think some folks often don't realize that there are people with different needs and desires, and that not everyone has the same ones as them. Just my $.02, don't come at me. It should be obvious and completely uncontroversial that different people have different desires and needs, and thus, different tastes in what they like and don't like.

(This is also why I ignore most movie reviews; if it's a 3 on rottentomatoes, I'm probably gonna like it. If it's a 9, I'll probably like it too)

 

[borski]

I guess you don’t remember that people said the exact same thing about the Air software problems and how much more robust it would be with the Gravity.

Of course they did; I was one of them. And the problems Gravity has faced are far better than the ones early Airs faced. Source: me; I've owned both.

As you might imagine, I'm still not thrilled with the state of software as it was released; but to say it is better than the state the Air was released in would be an extreme understatement. So, by that token, one might surmise they learned something between then and now. The question goes to what will happen between now and then, which is anybody's guess and none of us are Nostradamus.

(plus that guy was wrong a lot lol)