[URGENT] $7500 credit for current reservation holders

[EVCar]

I think you may be misreading the refundable deposit. It seems the Nissan refundable deposit is similar to the Lucid refundable deposit. I'm assuming once a reservation holder chooses to enter into an agreement to purchase, that $500 is no longer refundable, just like with Lucid.

Lucid explicitly stated it was non refundable and I expected the same here but there was no such mentioning by Nissan.

 

[SBR]

is it too late to place the order and still count using the "old rules"? I noticed the bill passed the house yesterday,but not yet signed by Biden

 

[idiot900]

is it too late to place the order and still count using the "old rules"? I noticed the bill passed the house yesterday,but not yet signed by Biden

The language in the bill we are concerned about relates to when it is “enacted”, so it probably isn’t too late, assuming you read this before Biden signs it.

 

[steveairgt]

is it too late to place the order and still count using the "old rules"? I noticed the bill passed the house yesterday,but not yet signed by Biden

It won’t be signed apparently till sometime next week.

 

[Steveinarizona]

My advice to everyone is DON'T COUNT ON IT! If it comes through, treat it as a lovely present. As far as I am concerned, if Lucid continues to improve its software, and doesn't lie about pricing, I fully intend to go through with my purchase with or without the credit.

 

[DaveyBoyGT]

Sort of. The Treasury...anyway.

The IRS already does have a definition of "binding contract". Been in place since 1986, others have shown on various threads.

 

[DaveyBoyGT]

is it too late to place the order and still count using the "old rules"? I noticed the bill passed the house yesterday,but not yet signed by Biden

the law is not effective until it is "enacted", which is when Biden signs it.

 

[Steveinarizona]

The IRS already does have a definition of "binding contract". Been in place since 1986, others have shown on various threads.

True BUT ,my conflict of laws Professor spent an entire class on the fallacy that something that means one thing in one context means the same thing in all contexts. There is room to utilize that definition or to replace it.

 

[DJL]

True BUT ,my conflict of laws Professor spent an entire class on the fallacy that something that means one thing in one context means the same thing in all contexts. There is room to utilize that definition or to replace it.

You are absolutely correct, but unless that happens...the agency could argue that the current definition, even though it is not directly on point, would apply. Courts have a long history of siding with the regulatory agency unless a remarkable complelling arguement can be made not to do so. THerefore, you can count on no matter how the IRS goes on this issue, the courts will back it up.
It is all a mess right now because of the way Lucid has handled this. It puts all of us, who are waiting for our car and are relying on the Confirmation Order purchase agreeement language, at risk. Lucid could have removed this problem simply but doing away with the liquidated damages paraphragh and stated that they are appling the deposit toward the purchase of the car. Sigh. If I was a betting man, and I am as I own Lucid stock, I would say that the agency will end up ruling that the tax credit does not apply to those of us in this precarious position. By the way, I am not a lawyer so take all of this with a large dose of salt....

 

[NNPCdude]

This is the income cap to qualify for the credit. At the price point for this vehicle I doubt think many on here will qualify.

Date of Vehicle Purchase/Lease	Income Cap
Prior to February 24, 2022	$150,000 for single filers $204,000 for head-of-household $300,000 for joint filers
On/after February 24, 2022	$135,000 for single filers $175,000 for head-of-household $200,000 for joint filers

 

[DJL]

This is the income cap to qualify for the credit. At the price point for this vehicle I doubt think many on here will qualify.

Date of Vehicle Purchase/Lease	Income Cap
Prior to February 24, 2022	$150,000 for single filers $204,000 for head-of-household $300,000 for joint filers
On/after February 24, 2022	$135,000 for single filers $175,000 for head-of-household $200,000 for joint filers

This is for the Calfornia State clean vehicle rebate program. For those of us who don't live in California, it is not relivant. For those who live in Califinorn, your information should be greatly appreciated.
Meanwhile, for the soon to be new Federal EV tax credit program, the income limits will be as stated below:

(10) LIMITATION BASED ON MODIFIED ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—No credit shall be allowed under subsection (a) for any taxable year if—
(i) the lesser of—
(I) the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer for such taxable year, or
(II) the modified adjusted gross2 income of the taxpayer for the preceding taxable year, exceeds
(ii) the threshold amount.
(B) THRESHOLD AMOUNT.—For purposes of subparagraph (A)(ii), the threshold amount shall be—
i) in the case of a joint return or a surviving spouse (as defined in section 2(a)), $300,000,
(ii) in the case of a head of household (as defined in section 2(b)), $225,000, and
(iii) in the case of a taxpayer not described in clause (i) or (ii), $150,000.
C) MODIFIED ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME.—For purposes of this paragraph, the term ‘modified adjusted gross income’ means adjusted gross income increased by any amount excluded from gross income under section 911, 931, or 933.

 

[LCIDdreams]

My advice to everyone is DON'T COUNT ON IT! If it comes through, treat it as a lovely present. As far as I am concerned, if Lucid continues to improve its software, and doesn't lie about pricing, I fully intend to go through with my purchase with or without the credit.

I’m it will be a nice surprise if I ultimately get it.

Have my doubts on whether a ~0.375% non refundable deposit on a Pure really meets the intent of the bill. Personally I certainly don’t feel it binds or compells me in any way to go through with the purchase (when my turn eventually comes). If for any reason I am weighing whether it makes sense to go through with the purchase next year, the fact that I would lose the $300 deposit would have zero bearing in my decision.

 

[rbbarry]

CNN covered this https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/16/business/biden-ev-tax-credits-new/index.html

With quotes from Lucid buyers.

 

[Pragmatic]

The IRS said "if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit or down payment of 5% of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract."

The above quote is from Reuters article on the new law -

U.S. says about 20 models will get EV credits through end of 2022

The Biden administration said on Tuesday about 20 models will still qualify for electric vehicle tax credits of up to $7,500 through the end of 2022 under legislation signed by President Joe Biden.

www.reuters.com

So no credit for changing the deposit to non-refundable.

 

[HC_79]

"The IRS said "if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit OR down payment of 5% of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract."

maybe all hope is not lost as you could argue the use of the word "Or". You could class this as 2 things to qualify

Non-Refundable deposite (which everyone has)

OR

down payment of 5% of the contract price.

 

[steveairgt]

In Lucid’s case, It means a deposit of 5% or more, which means the $1000 or $300 does not qualify as a binding contract.

 

[idiot900]

"The IRS said "if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit OR down payment of 5% of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract."

maybe all hope is not lost as you could argue the use of the word "Or". You could class this as 2 things to qualify

That's not how I (as a non-lawyer) read it:

For tax purposes in general, a contract provision that limits damages to an amount equal to at least 5 percent of the total contract price is not treated as limiting damages to a specified amount. For example, if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit or down payment of 5 percent of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract.

It looks to me like the 5% of the purchase price is the critical element, not whether it's called a "deposit" or a "down payment". I'd be glad to pay 5% right now (and would have been prior to the bill being signed)...but I am now quite a bit less optimistic I'll be able to claim the tax credit.

 

[Chizle]

"In general, a written contract is binding if it is enforceable under State law and does not limit damages to a specified amount."

Here is another, but unlikely, possibility for whether or not the IRS wants to enforce or allow the credit. Nothing here is 100% certain.

 

[HC_79]

In Lucid’s case, It means a deposit of 5% or more, which means the $1000 or $300 does not qualify as a binding contract.

I would ague based on that verbiage that I made a non-refundable deposit which is an indication of a binding contract. It doesn't say "non-refundable deposit of 5% of the total contract price"

 

[HC_79]

That's not how I (as a non-lawyer) read it:

I deal with lawyers a lot and every word matters. To me, it's all about that one word "Or" because it can be read as "if this OR that" you can have either.