Three-Row SUV road trip race: Would Gravity have won?

[DeaneG]

A road-trip race between the R1S gen 1, EQS 450, Model X, and EV9 three-row SUVs. I suspect Gravity would have come in at #1 or #2, but that would be comparing current production vehicles against an SUV you can't buy yet:

Tiring 800-Mile Road Trip Crowns Tesla's Model X As the Best Three-Row Electric SUV

Planning on moving away from internal combustion engine-powered vehicles and want something that can accommodate the whole family? Here's your best pick

www.autoevolution.com

 

[BS8899]

A road-trip race between the R1S gen 1, EQS 450, Model X, and EV9 three-row SUVs. I suspect Gravity would have come in at #1 or #2, but that would be comparing current production vehicles against an SUV you can't buy yet:

Tiring 800-Mile Road Trip Crowns Tesla's Model X As the Best Three-Row Electric SUV

Planning on moving away from internal combustion engine-powered vehicles and want something that can accommodate the whole family? Here's your best pick

www.autoevolution.com

Interesting! I haven't had a chance to read the article in detail. Kyle remarked that the R1S "should have won" this race if it wasn't for the charging. Apparently, the R1S/MaxPak in their R1S was only able to charge at 154kW max. on the EA charger. The R1S in the race had the MaxPak, which have gotten many mixed reviews about its charging problems. I don't profess to understand why.

My R1S has the large pack. In a trip I took last December, I charged mostly at Rivian's RAN networks. The RAN chargers are rated at 300 kW. They are excellent! I was able to get 250+kW peak on most of my charging stops. Not sure what the deal is with the R1S/MaxPak on this race. I saw little difference i the ACTUAL charging rate on my R1S when compared to the Lucid. The Lucid can hit a higher peak rate at the onset when it is below 10% SoC and preconditioned. The peak charge rate on the Rivian is lower but the charging curve is flatter.

I will go read the article in more detail when I have time.

 

[hydbob]

Unless I missed something, this was a useless race. The cars had 2 passengers each, not 5 or 7 passengers or any decent amount of luggage. All this showed is which SUV could make the trip the fastest with 2 people. Why bother....

 

[BS8899]

Unless I missed something, this was a useless race. The cars had 2 passengers each, not 5 or 7 passengers or any decent amount of luggage. All this showed is which SUV could make the trip the fastest with 2 people. Why bother....

That's why Tesla started with the Roadster

 

[illopp00]

Hard to say, I watched the whole youtube video (3hrs) in absence of any other pressing responsibilities. The Tesla sailed through but did not have the best charging sessions even on superchargers as they were temperature derated at 105 ambient. The EQS was scrambling and running with AC off to keep up with pretty good EA Charging. Gravity in a range spec would likely have come 2nd without needing any extreme hypermiling, but luck would be needed with current Infrastructure. Even next year I don't believe there will be enough V4 Tesla Superchargers to change that.

 

[DeaneG]

Yeah I can't watch Out Of Spec videos any more. I don't want to age significantly just to learn five minutes' worth of information.

 

[Batteryman]

Yeah I can't watch Out Of Spec videos any more. I don't want to age significantly just to learn five minutes' worth of information.

I just go to the last 2-3 minutes for conclusions...those videos are too long

 

[hmp10]

"Out of Spec" has also posted a comparison of the same four SUVs from the perspective of their room and utility as family haulers without taking range into account. It yielded a different ranking: Kia EV9 in first, Rivian R1S second, Tesla Model X third, and EQS fourth:

 

[xponents]

Yeah I can't watch Out Of Spec videos any more. I don't want to age significantly just to learn five minutes' worth of information.

Their videos are way too long, and the presenting style always annoys me.

But really, I'm shocked by the results of the road trip. Our EV9 gets 2.9 mi/kwh... at 75 MPH (it's rated at about 2.7 mi/kwh). This is with 4 people and enough cargo for a week-long trip, and is also on the AWD long range variant of this car (instead of the RWD long range being tested here). I don't know what could have caused them to underperform here, although the charging speeds seem spot on.

 

[hmp10]

Yeah I can't watch Out Of Spec videos any more. I don't want to age significantly just to learn five minutes' worth of information.

Their videos are way too long, and the presenting style always annoys me.

Kyle Conner has acknowledged these complaints in some recent videos but still seems unable to rein it in. At least he marks subject matter breaks in the videos so it's a bit easier to dig out the content that might actually interest a particular viewer. But still too long . . . .

 

[borski]

Kyle Conner has acknowledged these complaints in some recent videos but still seems unable to rein it in. At least he marks subject matter breaks in the videos so it's a bit easier to dig out the content that might actually interest a particular viewer. But still too long . . . .

Honestly, I like Kyle’s style but I don’t get the laziness in editing; if he knows there’s an issue, do the job and edit it down shorter. If you need to write scripts to stay on track, do that.

 

[hmp10]

Honestly, I like Kyle’s style but I don’t get the laziness in editing . . . .

It's like the old joke: "Please excuse the length of this letter. I was too busy to make it shorter."

 

[borski]

It's like the old joke: "Please excuse the length of this letter. I was too busy to make it shorter."

Write Simply

paulgraham.com

 

[hydbob]

"Out of Spec" has also posted a comparison of the same four SUVs from the perspective of their room and utility as family haulers without taking range into account. It yielded a different ranking: Kia EV9 in first, Rivian R1S second, Tesla Model X third, and EQS fourth:

This video was ALSO useless as a family hauler video. The most they packed into the car was a car seat. What the hell! How does this show anything about how much you can actually pack into a family hauler.

 

[xponents]

Write Simply

paulgraham.com

This is some of the best advice that can be given to somebody, in my opinion. I remember writing an essay in 7th grade that was supposed to be one paragraph. By the end of the period, my one paragraph had become three pages long. By far the worst part was when I read it over again and found that I had written a bloated, indecipherable mess that had little purpose or sense of direction (complex/unnecessary vocab everywhere, etc). I got a relatively bad grade on that assignment, and that was when I realized I needed to become more concise as talked about in the linked article.

I'm very curious to hear what you and @hmp10 think about this, but the reason I think the "less is more" principle (which is directly related to being more concise) is some of the best advice out there is because it's so versatile. It can be applied almost everywhere with great results, such as writing, speaking, presentations, architecture, UX, fashion... and even cars, as Lucid showed us! Is there really any area where "more is more?"

 

[xponents]

This video was ALSO useless as a family hauler video. The most they packed into the car was a car seat. What the hell! How does this show anything about how much you can actually pack into a family hauler.

Fully agree. I also don't understand why the R1S is second, as it doesn't seem very family oriented other than the fact that it has three rows (no sunshades, not much third row space, etc). This may sound like sacrilege, but I would put the EQS SUV ahead of the Model X and the R1S.

What the comparison does accurately show, however, is how lacking the market is of a "true" family-hauling three row EV SUV (luxury or not). The EV9 has the outright features (cooled rear seats, etc), but lacks in "true" luxury (materials, etc), packaging (third row/cargo), and the range. The R1S has the range and is somewhat good at "true" luxury, but it too lacks in terms of packaging, specifically with the third row/cargo area. It also lacks in terms of outright features for family purposes, although it has many for off-roading (flashlights, air compressor, etc). The EQS has the "true" luxury (although gaudy for some, including me) and the outright features, but lacks range and has terrible packaging. The Model X... lacks at everything, lol.

(Note that I purposefully left out performance, because I don't think that is too important with family haulers.)

In comparison, the Gravity is shaping up to have all of these. It has the packaging, being the only one with a genuinely useful third row/good cargo with the third row up. It also has a well sized frunk. It also has the range, reaching 440 miles with a smaller battery than the Rivian (it remains to be seen if it actually achieves the quoted figures, though). It also has the "true" luxury, with fantastic materials and the same beautiful design aesthetic the Air has. It also mostly has the outright features, although I am still waiting on its second row amenities (captain's chairs/"executive" package, cooled rear seats, etc). Really, nothing is quite matching the perfect blend the Gravity should have... which is the EXACT scenario the Air faced. If Lucid knocks it out of the park as they did with the Air, they should have a hit on their hands.

 

[hmp10]

This video was ALSO useless as a family hauler video. The most they packed into the car was a car seat. What the hell! How does this show anything about how much you can actually pack into a family hauler.

Yes, it was one of Conner's poorer efforts. It really focused almost exclusively on the needs of families with very young children plus a couple of detours into software. There was no discussion of driving dynamics or of price, which is often one of the main considerations for people with young families.

I also found it a bit bizarre that he rated the Rivian a "close second", even though the couple with three small children had permanently removed one of its second-row seats in order to make the car suitable for their family-hauling needs. They might as well have removed the other second-row seat in order to pronounce it as having the most third-row legroom. Actually, now that I think of it, that would have been a good idea for the EQS SUV.

 

[xponents]

Yes, it was one of Conner's poorer efforts. It really focused almost exclusively on the needs of families with very young children plus a couple of detours into software. There was no discussion of driving dynamics or of price, which is often one of the main considerations for people with young families.

I also found it a bit bizarre that he rated the Rivian a "close second", even though the couple with three small children had permanently removed one of its second-row seats in order to make the car suitable for their family-hauling needs. They might as well have removed the other second-row seat in order to pronounce it as having the most third-row legroom. Actually, now that I think of it, that would have been a good idea for the EQS SUV.

I am a bit curious, out of the four presented in that video, which one would you think is the best regarding family hauling? Also, I completely agree about price being a huge factor for families (the EV9 is the cheapest here), but do many families really care about driving dynamics?

 

[hmp10]

I am a bit curious, out of the four presented in that video, which one would you think is the best regarding family hauling?

The only two I've seen up close are the R1S and the EQS, and that was without driving either. It was not enough exposure to develop well-grounded opinions. All I could tell was that neither offered enough combined second- and third-row legroom to make a long trip comfortable for six adults, which is my main need in an SUV or minivan.

. . . do many families really care about driving dynamics?

Families maybe not. But there are several younger dads in my extended family who are sentenced to driving SUVs and minivans because they cannot afford additional cars, and driving dynamics matter to them. In fact, one of those families switched from a Toyota Sienna to a Honda Odyssey for that reason at their next trade after driving our Odyssey on a visit. And another bought an Odyssey for that same reason when the arrival of their third child moved them out of sedans. (Being in Florida, a lot of extended family vacations come our way, and our cars get a lot of use by these visitors.)

 

[BS8899]

I am a bit curious, out of the four presented in that video, which one would you think is the best regarding family hauling? Also, I completely agree about price being a huge factor for families (the EV9 is the cheapest here), but do many families really care about driving dynamics?

I have a R1S and I am generally very pleased with it. Sure, the drive dynamics is not the same as my AGT. The R1S is a lot taller thus, there is more sway. I find the Lucid seating position a bit too low for my liking. that could just be a personal preference. What concerns me more about the AGT's low profile is the ground clearance. I have to have my driveway entrance reshaped to avoid scrapping the bottom. And the concrete parking bumpers at shopping centers are often tall enough to interfere with the AGT's clearance. Now, the Gravity has more ground clearance so these might not be issues. I am taking it on faith the Gravity will have better driving dynamics than the R1S. The Gravity is more than 12" shorter than the R1S. Would kids care about the driving dynamics? I seriously doubt they would. The more important thing for kids is having an USB-C plug.

The R1S is a serious 7 seater SUV. I found the 3rd row reasonably comfortable. The ingress/egress, specifically how the 2nd row slides/folds could be better.

I've never driven an EV9. I rented an EV5 (5 seater SUV) from Hertz about a year ago. I was very impressed with the size of the car, the comfort, the tech, and the drive dynamics. The EV9 is a stretched EV5. I presume it is just as good. Kia makes very appealing and well-appointed cars. That said, I don't think they are rugged like the R1S.