NACS (Tesla adapter) versus CCS Megathread

[Alex]

Provide and adaptor that allows charging at the maxed speeds based on voltage limitations

The problem with Lucia’s 50kW limitation is not the adapter, but internal to Lucid hardware when it converts from 400V to 900V. For example, Porsche has the same limitation, although they have a hardware upgrade that allows up to 150kw.

 

[thecodingart]

The problem with Lucia’s 50kW limitation is not the adapter, but internal to Lucid hardware when it converts from 400V to 900V. For example, Porsche has the same limitation, although they have a hardware upgrade that allows up to 150kw.

I never implied the adapter was the problem in regards to voltage compatibility and I’m probably more aware than most on this limitation.

Current NACS adapters for CCS ports are throttled to level 1 & 2 charging speeds by design. That is not a voltage tied issue. Lvl 3 speeds cannot be hit with current adapters on the market to my knowledge. Thus, Ford will have the first 3rd party and vehicle on the market that can hit lvl 3 speeds with an adapter on the supercharger network (again not tied to the voltage situation).

 

[Tim-in-CA]

I never implied the adapter was the problem in regards to voltage compatibility and I’m probably more aware than most on this limitation.

Current NACS adapters for CCS ports are throttled to level 1 & 2 charging speeds by design. That is not a voltage tied issue. Lvl 3 speeds cannot be hit with current adapters on the market to my knowledge. Thus, Ford will have the first 3rd party and vehicle on the market that can hit lvl 3 speeds with an adapter on the supercharger network (again not tied to the voltage situation).

The Ford adapter will most likely be a variant of the Magic Dock adapter.

 

[thecodingart]

The Ford adapter will most likely be a variant of the Magic Dock adapter.

I’m reaching out to some of my coworkers to find out any details I can get

 

[hmp10]

Driving over to Miami yesterday we made a food stop at the Snake Road facility off Alligator Alley. The Tesla Supercharger station that was built there a couple of years ago now has a large shed roof over it (no solar panels, though). I'm wondering if Tesla is going to be retrofitting other stations with such weather protection in order to make their chargers more attractive to CCS drivers?

If so, this creates a dilemma for me. For other reasons we have decided our Plaid will be our last Tesla product, and I would prefer to use non-Tesla chargers when other brands are available, if and when they become more reliable. However, in rainy weather having a roof over the charger could be very attractive, even to the point of paying for a charge while we're still in the 3-year Electrify America window for free charging.

Is anyone else seeing roofs being put over existing Tesla Superchargers?

 

[Tâm]

Is anyone else seeing roofs being put over existing Tesla SupSuperchargers

No. I've been to Superchargers in my radius of Sacramento to San Diego and San Francisco to Vegas.

Most don't have roofs.

If the have a roof, that means it's solar. Some didn't have a roof but later on did, but again, with solar.

 

[hmp10]

If the have a roof, that means it's solar. Some didn't have a roof but later on did, but again, with solar.

We looked for solar panels on the roof but could not see them, perhaps because the roof was too high. We also looked for power lines coming off the roof. The roof was supported by V-shaped piers formed of I-beams, so there was no channel in which the lines could be concealed. However, this was just as we were driving by, not a close-up inspection.

Is Tesla using conventional solar panels or their own solar tiles for their solar charger installations?

Here's a photo:

 

[Volund]

Ford is not stupid. They are basically using a connector Tesla created that allows for either. Sort of like the superchargers they have fitted with their smart connectors. Only on the car itself. Interesting. Though I’d still rather see the Tesla port go away entirely. The sooner we have one standard port that isn’t owned by anyone, the better.

Tesla is like Apple in the automotive industry

 

[Tâm]

We looked for solar panels on the roof...

It looks like the underside of solar panels. I can see many short, thin black cables dangling from those solar panels. They need to be strung together and cabled them down into a big common cable.

 

[hmp10]

It looks like the underside of solar panels. I can see many short, thin black cables dangling from those solar panels. They need to be strung together and cabled them down into a big common cable.

So maybe it's a work in progress? I'll check it out more carefully next time we're over that way. It would certainly make sense to use solar panels, although Alligator Alley through the Everglades is also Hurricane Alley.

 

[Tâm]

GM has just announced the same:

Site Maintenance

news.gm.com

What's lucid waiting for?

 

[hmp10]

GM has just announced the same:

Site Maintenance

news.gm.com

What's lucid waiting for?

There's bad blood between Musk and Rawlinson, especially as Musk has blatantly lied about Rawlinson's role in developing the original Model S and likes to keep prognosticating about Lucid's imminent demise.

A deal between Tesla and Lucid might not come as readily as with other brands.

 

[Rob Stark]

There's bad blood between Musk and Rawlinson, especially as Musk has blatantly lied about Rawlinson's role in developing the original Model S and likes to keep prognosticating about Lucid's imminent demise.

A deal between Tesla and Lucid might not come as readily as with other brands.

Tesla has said NACS is an open standard.

With Tesla, GM and Ford now using NACS it is effectively THE US/Canadian standard.

There could be lawsuits if Tesla rejected Lucid's application join NACS on equal footing to GM/Ford.

Not only would it be horrible look on Musk/Tesla but Lucid would win. That would be exercising monopolistic power to restrain competition.

 

[xponents]

Look, as much as I love lucid and not tesla, lucid needs to adopt NACS. Its a win win for everybody.

 

[Impatient7536]

im reading these partnership articles and am confused on how it'll work. will the automakers continue making CCS ports and provide the NACS adapter? or will they build two ports, one for each type?

 

[hydbob]

The problem with Ford/GM adopting this as a plug is the charging cables themselves. Unless it's going to be limited to V4 superchargers it's going to be a rough adoption.

 

[Rob Stark]

im reading these partnership articles and am confused on how it'll work. will the automakers continue making CCS ports and provide the NACS adapter? or will they build two ports, one for each type?

For some reason neither GM nor Ford want to plain speak to this.

Reading the corporatese as a whole Ford and GM will continue to use CCS through 2024 model year and provide CCS to NACS adapters to all their customers who bought/ will buy CCS cars.

In 2025 model they will switch all or some model lines to NACS no longer using CCS. Over time if switch is not done immediately on all Ford and GM BEVs then eventually all Ford and GM BEVs will have NACS only. Not two ports.

Two ports defeats the purpose of simplicity and lowering cost to accelerate BEV adoption.

 

[thecodingart]

For some reason neither GM nor Ford want to plain speak to this.

Reading the corporatese as a whole Ford and GM will continue to use CCS through 2024 model year and provide CCS to NACS adapters to all their customers who bought/ will buy CCS cars.

In 2025 model they will switch all or some model lines to NACS no longer using CCS. Over time if switch is not done immediately on all Ford and GM BEVs then eventually all Ford and GM BEVs will have NACS only. Not two ports.

Two ports defeats the purpose of simplicity and lowering cost to accelerate BEV adoption.

I can speak to some of this for Ford. NACS is planned to be a hard cut off for newer vehicles, they will ONLY have an NACS port, not a CCS port. An adapter will be provided for CCS -> NACS usage for older vehicles where gen 3 and up chargers can be used at full speed with full compatibility. < gen 3 chargers are SOL as they aren’t based on the CCS protocol.

 

[joec]

I can speak to some of this for Ford. NACS is planned to be a hard cut off for newer vehicles, they will ONLY have an NACS port, not a CCS port. An adapter will be provided for CCS -> NACS usage for older vehicles where gen 3 and up chargers can be used at full speed with full compatibility. < gen 3 chargers are SOL as they aren’t based on the CCS protocol.

But what about new cars going to CCS charging stations? Will they get no adapter? Will they be forced to use a Tesla Supercharger?

 

[thecodingart]

But what about new cars going to CCS charging stations? Will they get no adapter? Will they be forced to use a Tesla Supercharger?

They will work with existing NACS -> CCS adaptors (everything that's already out there for Tesla folks should work).

I'm unaware of any plans for Ford to have a "ford branded" adaptor for that scenario atm, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was in the pipeline alongside a new Ford Pro charger.

https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter

These have the same limitations mentioned above and still rely on the the core CCS protocol for NACS. Thankfully, CCS chargers have always used the CCS protocol unlike Tesla Superchargers (>= gen 3).

Not much actually _has_ to change for Ford to use >= gen 3 superchargers really. This is one of those scenarios where the handshakes are 1:1 and the ports just change. Tesla basically accepted the CCS protocol so the world could accept their charge port lol.