Surreal Sound

[Mr_rhythm]

Can y’all check SPL of the system at reasonably high levels to see what it can produce? One thing I’ve noticed is that the cleaner the sound, the quieter a higher SPL seems. Curious how loud the system will actually crank.

 

[stratus]

I'll give you my semi-informed answer, but I'm also gonna reach out to a friend who has worked for Dolby for decades and see if he can give an even more informed answer. But the basics are that while most music is mixed for 2 channel stereo, and some is mixed for 5.1, Atmos is at minimum a 7.1.4 format, meaning left, center, right, left surround, right surround, left rear surround, right rear surround, subwoofer, left and right front overhead speakers and left and right rear overhead speakers (Atmos supports more than that, so the 21 speakers in the Lucid may get extra audio depending on how the Dolby codec works with the Lucid DSP/Amps).

The audio engineer aka mixer decides which sound goes where when it's mixed or remixed for atmos. The Dolby Atmos mixing software also allows you to create beds and objects, where beds are evenly allocated to the appropriate speaker assignments in 3D space, and objects can be discreetly moved from one speaker to another. Prince's When Doves Cry Atmos mix is the perfect example of the synths being used as a forward biased bed, while the effects on the synths (reverb and flange) are split to the rear speakers as a rear biased bed, and the guitar in the beginning is an object that is discreetly flung from speaker to speaker all around the car/room. Meanwhile his background stacked vocals are split left and right while the primary vocal is dead center and I think even sometimes in the front overheads so it sounds like he is right in front of your face. This mix is locked into the Dolby codec and so you can't change position or balance (why would anyone want to haha), as it was already pre-defined and encoded. But yeah you can change the EQ in an admittedly limited way because EQ doesn't affect sonic position.

Another great example of how you can use Atmos is on @hydbob Lucid Atmos Test Tidal playlist, playing the Atmos track La Vie En Rose by Madeline Peyroux. For this song it wouldn't make sense to do flying around the room trickery like the Prince track, instead what they did is place each instrument in its own spatial location on stage with the vocals in the middle so if you close your eyes it sounds like you are right there listening to it live in person. It's funny because to me, I've never heard a more realistic natural sounding presentation of recorded audio, and it's taken almost 100 years of audio recording technology to get to the point where you can actually recreate sonic realism. I even heard an early demo of direct stream digital through top tier audiophile equipment at an Audio Engineer Society conference in NYC years ago, and I thought that sounded pretty realistic, but what I've heard on the Atmos system in the Lucid, well the Lucid beats it.

Atmos in cars creates an interesting dilemma though, as up until the Lucid, car audio was the wild west and utterly non-standardized, and tastes got defined by car audio manufacturers who would do all sorts of cool things that would hype different frequencies and make up for the deficiencies of what is really an absolutely shit listening environment, with glass and weird reflecting and absorbing surfaces and engine noise and road noise etc. I think up until I heard the Lucid I'd say Burmester was the best at car audio, with things sounding musical but pretty accurate. But now you have the Lucid which is quiet and carefully tuned and mostly non-modifiable because to play back any Dolby audio you can't modify it, and people say it sounds bad even though it's likely the most accurate representation of how it sounded in the studio. Sorry for the very long post, but I guess these are interesting times in which we live and sometimes require too many words...

I really appreciate this explanation and it actually makes perfect sense to me. Some tracks absolutely blow me away, while others seems bit odd to my ear. As I listen more and more I am getting a better appreciation of the complexity of Atmos. I still struggle with higher treble levels on some songs, that actually hurt my ears a bit, but this is not a consistent finding . I will listen to when Doves Cry tomorrow. I was just driving home from work at an ungodly hour and experimenting with
More tracks and the radio crapped out halfway home , but I had just finished listening to some Earth Wind and Fire tracks ,some of which really shined.
I do enjoy the sound system but it has taken a tad bit of adjustment in the way I think about sound and listen to music, which is a good thing. Thanks again for your expertise.
Can’t wait to hear some more head turning sound tomorrow.

 

[stratus]

Maybe to augment the lack of bass Lucid can add a colonoscopy mode to the massage in an upcoming OTA. Lucid reps if you're reading this get to work!

I don’t want a colonoscopy mode because I have light carpets.

 

[PaulM]

My first impression: I have only listened with Tidal hifi logged in and both dolby atmos and master mqa stereo files… and I have the same thoughts I do with my spatial audio labs X-3s or my home theater system when listening to music: Stereo sounds amazing and dolby atmos is mostly odd and often flat and “not as intended”. I personally just don’t like dolby atmos for any real music listening. A great sound system will create it’s own soundstage without having to add odd choices that were not part of the original and perhaps not ever intended. Im getting great sound listening to any tidal master with bass +2, mid +0, treb +1 and setting the balance right in the middle of the 4 seats.
Yes… I am doing the first night sitting in the car in the garage thing.

 

[zkhan2]

Does anyone here listen to streamed music on their home system? If so, how do you stream—hardwired to the router or WIFI, and what DAC do you use?

I use my Macpro connected to a Mackie mixer via USB then to two pre-amps (one McIntosh and one Onkyo), then over to two McIntosh MC-250s, and finally over to my bi-amped speakers. I listen using Tidal, SiriusXM, my own collection located on my Synology NAS using Pine Player, and my Astell&Kerns using AK Connect. I am hardwired to mu router (although a WiFi connecting that is strong is just as good since you are streaming data). I also have an Apogee Duet used to interface my instruments. So the DACs are in the Mackie, A&K, and Apogee.

 

[cplewes]

Music, like all art, is a matter of transcendence. Going back to blasting an AM radio cruising in a Corvair convertible it the summer evening, I was always gratefull for that special relationship of tunes and cars. Personal preferences prevail. if ear busting bass is what moves you, great. But if it comes at the expense of all the nuance of your recording I am out. Remember the Beatles only recorded and listen back in Mono. I prefer dialing up different listening profiles by source . While Mogwai and Boards of Canada float nicely in a spacious environment . Allman Bros and Iggy need a front and center stage. There is no one setting or answer that fits every situation. This car has an aural precision matched by nothing I have ever heard. That being said, the Burmester Sound System in my old E class was wildly more versatile and sophisticated. I miss that. (and the heads up display).

 

[cplewes]

Does anyone here listen to streamed music on their home system? If so, how do you stream—hardwired to the router or WIFI, and what DAC do you use?

Aurender only wires direct from the network router- no wifi

 

[joec]

My first impression: I have only listened with Tidal hifi logged in and both dolby atmos and master mqa stereo files… and I have the same thoughts I do with my spatial audio labs X-3s or my home theater system when listening to music: Stereo sounds amazing and dolby atmos is mostly odd and often flat and “not as intended”. I personally just don’t like dolby atmos for any real music listening. A great sound system will create it’s own soundstage without having to add odd choices that were not part of the original and perhaps not ever intended. Im getting great sound listening to any tidal master with bass +2, mid +0, treb +1 and setting the balance right in the middle of the 4 seats.
Yes… I am doing the first night sitting in the car in the garage thing.

This reminds me of folks who prefer listening to The Beach Boys and the Beatles in the original mono. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Preference can’t be wrong.)

“But the engineers intended this mix to be mono.” Did they? Or was it that they just didn’t have the tools to do stereo?

Paul McCartney didn’t release all his solo albums in mono.

Whenever new technology comes along in audio, there’s resistance from listeners. Particularly when listening to music you’ve been enjoying a certain way for decades.

I’ve always been one for chasing the next great technological advance, so I enjoy these developments. (As did the Beatles, by the way.) But I’m convinced there will be many who simply aren’t interested in change when it comes to listening to music. This is why we still have people buying up vinyl recordings, even of brand new albums, because they are convinced vinyl “sounds better.”

Music is an emotional thing. It connects you to memories and feelings, and you don’t want that process interrupted by a fancy new presentation. Hearing it the way you heard it as a kid is a feature, not a bug.

Car stereos have sounded like crap for so long, the crap has become the expectation. You listened to that crap sound while cruising around with your friends. While courting your spouse. And on and on. It triggers that emotional response.

I’m convinced Atmos, Spatial Audio—the concept, not the specific implementation—will become as commonplace and popular as stereo to an entire new generation who grows up with it.

And the prior generations will be screaming about how much better plain old stereo was to the grave.

 

[cplewes]

I have a quadraphonic amp for you. lol

 

[stratus]

As suggested by bunnylebowski I listened to the Dolby Atmos mix of When Doves cry and was duly impressed. Both bass and treble seemed spot on and the sound was thrown around in ways that surprised me.
I then went back and listened to a few favorite tracks in master quality audio and my impression is variable. This is not a criticism because I am not an audio expert. Even with hydbob’s suggestions of + 6 0 -2, I find some tracks to be a bit difficult to listen to and others to be amazing ( certainly better than with the neutral EQ settings). In some cases bass still sounds a bit lacking and the higher pitches are a tad harsh. Then again, with certain songs with this equalizer setting the bass sounds spot on ( to my ears anyhow ). Then I thought about the placement of the speakers in the car and realized 2 of them are pretty close to my left ear . I adjusted the balance a bit to move things toward the back , and that did help.
Again , none of this is a criticism and it really does seem like it’s a new way of hearing music ( for me anyhow ). The Atmos tracks are amazing and they really do surprise , in a very positive way.
With Tidal , I think it’s really crucial to listen to as many Atmos tracks as possible . There are songs that I never really loved and then put them in Atmos and found myself really enjoying them.
It’s definitely a learning curve and it’s fun to start appreciating things in a different light.
Sorry about the verbal diarrhea , I just had 2 cups of coffee.

 

[hydbob]

As suggested by bunnylebowski I listened to the Dolby Atmos mix of When Doves cry and was duly impressed. Both bass and treble seemed spot on and the sound was thrown around in ways that surprised me.
I then went back and listened to a few favorite tracks in master quality audio and my impression is variable. This is not a criticism because I am not an audio expert. Even with hydbob’s suggestions of + 6 0 -2, I find some tracks to be a bit difficult to listen to and others to be amazing ( certainly better than with the neutral EQ settings). In some cases bass still sounds a bit lacking and the higher pitches are a tad harsh. Then again, with certain songs with this equalizer setting the bass sounds spot on ( to my ears anyhow ). Then I thought about the placement of the speakers in the car and realized 2 of them are pretty close to my left ear . I adjusted the balance a bit to move things toward the back , and that did help.
Again , none of this is a criticism and it really does seem like it’s a new way of hearing music ( for me anyhow ). The Atmos tracks are amazing and they really do surprise , in a very positive way.
With Tidal , I think it’s really crucial to listen to as many Atmos tracks as possible . There are songs that I never really loved and then put them in Atmos and found myself really enjoying them.
It’s definitely a learning curve and it’s fun to start appreciating things in a different light.
Sorry about the verbal diarrhea , I just had 2 cups of coffee.

The +6, 0, -2 2as @copper suggestion. Not sure if he has done more testing or not, but I've found that for the majority of music I listen to, that setting has worked great! YMMV

 

[stratus]

As suggested by bunnylebowski I listened to the Dolby Atmos mix of When Doves cry and was duly impressed. Both bass and treble seemed spot on and the sound was thrown around in ways that surprised me.
I then went back and listened to a few favorite tracks in master quality audio and my impression is variabl. . This is not a criticism because I am not an audio expert. Even with hydbob’s suggestions of + 6 0 -2, I find some tracks to be a bit difficult to listen to and others to be amazing ( certainly better than with the neutral EQ settings) In some cases bass still sounds a bit lacking and the higher pitches are a tad harsh. Then again, with certain songs with this equalizer setting the bass sounds spot on ( to my ears anyhow ). Then I thought about the placement of the speakers in the car and realized 2 of them are pretty close to my left ear . I adjusted the balance a bit to move things toward the back , and that did help.
Again , none of this is a criticism and it really does seem like it’s a new way of hearing music ( for me anyhow ). The Atmos tracks are amazing and they really do surprise , in a very positive way.
With Tidal , I think it’s really crucial to listen to as many Atmos tracks as possible . There are songs that I never really loved and then put them in Atmos and found myself really enjoying them.
It’s definitely a learning curve and it’s fun to start appreciating things in a different light.
Sorry about the verbal diarrhea , I just had 2 cups of coffee.

The +6, 0, -2 2as @copper suggestion. Not sure if he has done more testing or not, but I've found that for the majority of music I listen to, that setting has worked great! YMMV

It has undoubtedly had a positive effect on my listening experience.

 

[stratus]

Music, like all art, is a matter of transcendence. Going back to blasting an AM radio cruising in a Corvair convertible it the summer evening, I was always gratefull for that special relationship of tunes and cars. Personal preferences prevail. if ear busting bass is what moves you, great. But if it comes at the expense of all the nuance of your recording I am out. Remember the Beatles only recorded and listen back in Mono. I prefer dialing up different listening profiles by source . While Mogwai and Boards of Canada float nicely in a spacious environment . Allman Bros and Iggy need a front and center stage. There is no one setting or answer that fits every situation. This car has an aural precision matched by nothing I have ever heard. That being said, the Burmester Sound System in my old E class was wildly more versatile and sophisticated. I miss that. (and the heads up display).

Ironically , for the first time ever in my existence, someone mentioned Boards of Canada to me . I told her, I have heard of them , but I couldn’t quite recall why , until it randomly popped into my head that it was the Lucid Forum. Definitely going to check them out.

 

[PoZulu]

I have about 500 miles on a Grand Touring I picked up a week ago. Generally very happy with the car but the sound system is not right.
everything comes from the front speakers, volume is limited and bass is almost nonexistent.

I have seen other mentions of this on the forums. Is this something Lucid can fix, or do they claim this is how it should sound?

I live in San Jose, is anyone available to meet up so that I could compare sound systems?

Thanks,

I updated to2.0.24 yesterday. The sound system seems to have improved with updates prior to 2.0.24 but nothing amazing.
Tonight I decided I had nothing to lose by trying a valet card reset and HOLY COW Surreal sounds wonderful! I am truly amazed seems like a full range of sound including plenty of bass without rattling the car.

 

[Mr_rhythm]

I updated to2.0.24 yesterday. The sound system seems to have improved with updates prior to 2.0.24 but nothing amazing.
Tonight I decided I had nothing to lose by trying a valet card reset and HOLY COW Surreal sounds wonderful! I am truly amazed seems like a full range of sound including plenty of bass without rattling the car.

Hoping it stays that way. Lot of chatter about the surreal system - I am really looking forward to it.