Rivian is killing it on software!

[momo3605]

Efficiency, packaging…..Rivian have a nice design but design doesn’t mean technological advancement. Yeah, Rivian software shows battery temperatures etc, but most people don’t need that. What would I do with that info? I just want a car that drives well, efficient, long range, looks futuristic, maximum use of space. That’s why I feel Lucid has better EV tech.

Packaging is different by design. The rivians are more off-road focused. So they have higher floors, flatter aero, square design, etc...Gravity is more of a minivan design. Sleeker more car looking front end, lower, etc...yet to be seen how efficient the Gravity is in the real world. I don't expect real-world efficiency will be significantly different. Maybe a slight advantage to Gravity due to the sleeker styling and lower CoD

 

[borski]

Packaging is different by design. The rivians are more off-road focused. So they have higher floors, flatter aero, square design, etc...Gravity is more of a minivan design. Sleeker more car looking front end, lower, etc...yet to be seen how efficient the Gravity is in the real world. I don't expect real-world efficiency will be significantly different. Maybe a slight advantage to Gravity due to the sleeker styling and lower CoD

That's not what they meant by packaging. The Rivians are great cars, but there is plenty of lost possible space to be used, because that wasn't their main focus. Additionally, Lucid's motors would make a big difference, most likely.

But either way, still a pipedream.

 

[momo3605]

That's not what they meant by packaging. The Rivians are great cars, but there is plenty of lost possible space to be used, because that wasn't their main focus. Additionally, Lucid's motors would make a big difference, most likely.

But either way, still a pipedream.

That’s exactly what I mean too. Higher floors means you have an overall smaller cabin and higher trunk floor. thick doors to make it more water tight, beefed up suspension, etc… these things take away interior room. There’s a reason Minivans are class acts in interior packaging because they are not limited by sport activity requirements.

And I think lucid motors would make very little difference. Rivian’s motors are fantastic and efficient in all sorts of environments, cold, hot, high speed, low speed. Unlike lucid. So I’m Happy to agree to disagree

Until the Gravity comes out and we see how the range is affected by adding an extra 1500lbs and lowering drag works out, don’t think there’s any way to prove one way or the other

 

[borski]

That’s exactly what I mean too. Higher floors means you have an overall smaller cabin and higher trunk floor. thick doors to make it more water tight, beefed up suspension, etc… these things take away interior room. There’s a reason Minivans are class acts in interior packaging because they are not limited by sport activity requirements.

And I think lucid motors would make very little difference. Rivian’s motors are fantastic and efficient in all sorts of environments, cold, hot, high speed, low speed. Unlike lucid. So I’m Happy to agree to disagree

Until the Gravity comes out and we see how the range is affected by adding an extra 1500lbs and lowering drag works out, don’t think there’s any way to prove one way or the other

I think the real comparison will be when Lucid releases their all-terrain vehicle, which it sounds like it’s presently already working on.

And yeah, I hear what you’re saying; we’ll just agree to disagree until we see what they come up with instead of speculating all day.

 

[Adnillien]

The Rivian design is excellent and matches their intended use very well. The interior design is well thought out and the materials again match their intended use. I love the Rivian design. However, the battery and drivetrain technology is nothing special. It charges slow because of poor battery thermal design and 400V architecture. It gets range from a bigger battery rather than efficient inverter and electrical motors. Lucid's smaller motors would allow more space in the Rivian and provide range through efficiency. I would love a Rivian with the Lucid drivetrain and faster charging. That said, it is very unlikely to happen.

 

[BS8899]

The Rivian design is excellent and matches their intended use very well. The interior design is well thought out and the materials again match their intended use. I love the Rivian design. However, the battery and drivetrain technology is nothing special. It charges slow because of poor battery thermal design and 400V architecture. It gets range from a bigger battery rather than efficient inverter and electrical motors. Lucid's smaller motors would allow more space in the Rivian and provide range through efficiency. I would love a Rivian with the Lucid drivetrain and faster charging. That said, it is very unlikely to happen.

While I agree with @Adnillien that Lucid has a better power train and (potentially) more efficient (900V) charging architecture, I think the resulting improvements on an SUV will be negligiable. As you can see from the Rivian charging (480V architecture) curves below, the charging curve (charge vs SoC) is flatter and the10-80% charging (typical of roadtrip charging stops) takes ~40min. I don't think the Lucid can do much better than that.

Overall, I think the Rivian is an excellent EV-SUV. Yes, I wish its range is a bit more (say 400+ miles). Don't look at the adverstized EPA range", The Rivian consistently out-perform its EPA range whilst the Lucid fals short of its EPA range. According to Lucid owners' survey at this forum, the user experience suggests the Lucid gets between 70-80% of its EPA range. These results are consistent with my experiences drive the R1S and the Lucid AGT on identical road trips.

The "proof-of-the-pudding" will come later this year when we see the Gravity and its "real-live" range, efficiency, and charging perform,ance.

 

[momo3605]

While I agree with @Adnillien that Lucid has a better power train and (potentially) more efficient (900V) charging architecture, I think the resulting improvements on an SUV will be negligiable. As you can see from the Rivian charging (480V architecture) curves below, the charging curve (charge vs SoC) is flatter and the10-80% charging (typical of roadtrip charging stops) takes ~40min. I don't think the Lucid can do much better than that.

Overall, I think the Rivian is an excellent EV-SUV. Yes, I wish its range is a bit more (say 400+ miles). Don't look at the adverstized EPA range", The Rivian consistently out-perform its EPA range whilst the Lucid fals short of its EPA range. According to Lucid owners' survey at this forum, the user experience suggests the Lucid gets between 70-80% of its EPA range. These results are consistent with my experiences drive the R1S and the Lucid AGT on identical road trips.

The "proof-of-the-pudding" will come later this year when we see the Gravity and its "real-live" range, efficiency, and charging perform,ance.

Not only that, Rivian will charge 135kwh battery pack from 10-80% in 40 minutes, which is the same amount of time as it takes Lucid to charge both the Touring's 92kwh and GTs 112kwh batteries. Pretty impressive for an inferior 400V architecture

 

[borski]

The Rivian design is excellent and matches their intended use very well. The interior design is well thought out and the materials again match their intended use. I love the Rivian design. However, the battery and drivetrain technology is nothing special. It charges slow because of poor battery thermal design and 400V architecture. It gets range from a bigger battery rather than efficient inverter and electrical motors. Lucid's smaller motors would allow more space in the Rivian and provide range through efficiency. I would love a Rivian with the Lucid drivetrain and faster charging. That said, it is very unlikely to happen.

I want to be clear that I really like Rivian. I’m not crapping on them.

But their expertise and prowess is fairly orthogonal to Lucid’s imho, which is why I find it exciting as an idea.

 

[cgm9999]

As an R1S owner, Rivian's monthly software updates have become one of my favorite things about the vehicle - and that's impressive given its overall performance envelope. By the time I took delivery in Nov. 2023, Rivians had been on the road long enough for pretty much all of the functional bugs to have been fixed. So, every update I've experienced has been nothing but gravy - just new features and improvements. For a new car company, I've been incredibly impressed with the consistency of the updates, as well as the quality of them.

 

[Tesla2.0]

As an R1S owner, Rivian's monthly software updates have become one of my favorite things about the vehicle - and that's impressive given its overall performance envelope. By the time I took delivery in Nov. 2023, Rivians had been on the road long enough for pretty much all of the functional bugs to have been fixed. So, every update I've experienced has been nothing but gravy - just new features and improvements. For a new car company, I've been incredibly impressed with the consistency of the updates, as well as the quality of them.

I too have been impressed by consistent OTA update every 4 weeks. The latest 2024.07.11 has rear screen jumping out colorful Gear Guard jumping. I’m anxiously waiting.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Am I the only one curious why the Saudi's are not building their own charging network? Not only would it transition them from their oil dependence, it has the possibility to make them a leader in even THAT! This could be advertised under the Lucid brand, as well. If Rivian can do it, I guess I don't see why Lucid can do it.... anybody have an explanation?

Love the R3 series and certainly would consider it for the right price. Imagine Lucid technology in every Rivian... simply perfection. It would be the "lifestyle" version of Lucid!

Rivian was known for recruited ex-Tesla engineers who worked on Tesla Superchargers. Somewhere I read average station for EA and EVGo are $600K~$750K with 3~4 charging stalls. Tesla can build a station of 8 stalls for $250k, and Rivian can build station of 6 stalls for $300k. Build charging network is not a profitable short term business; however, it may be worth it if building network to enhance branding such as Rivian and Mercedes are doing.

 

[Tesla2.0]

do they actually get live data from the companies to know which ones are broken? or is it all crowdsourced? never used ABRP so don't know how they work.

can't imagine the live data being too reliable since there's so many stories of what's being shown available not matching what's happening irl. and if the information is crowdsourced, does ABRP mention when the last time that data was updated? i'd imagine charger information at major hubs will probably be more reliable.

ABRP gave Rivian foundation of its navigation for road tripping with versatility of add/remove way points. Previously, Rivian didn’t have that capability unlike Lucid does. In addition, ABRP tracks elevation and latest weather data to calculate for accurate range estimation and it gave Rivian navigation with incredible accuracy of range estimation.

After Rivian merging ABRP data capability to its navigation, it has been tracking data and give grade to recent station performances. Owner gets charging curve real time on mobile app.

 

[Tesla2.0]

This is what I found from Rivian Website:

Charging - Rivian

Plug into Electric Adventure.

rivian.com

- Charging output of over 200 kW initially and 300 kW+ in the future

Although Rivian doesn’t have initial high speed charge as Lucid Air at 250~320kW speed, but it does stay at 180~205 kW very long at its own Rivian Adventure Network station. In EA and EVGo, it would be less optimal, but still very long at 140kW+ before 50~60% is reached. It has high 135kW pack. I have driven west coast to Texas and back to west coast. I can approve Rivian charging speed. With Lucid Air GT, I can go from Houston to Vegas just 6-7 DCFC charge, Rivian R1S would be about 11-12 DCFC charges.

I paid 45c~69c per kWh at EA and EVGo, varies by states. At RAN I paid unified 36c per kWh.

 

[momo3605]

With Lucid Air GT, I can go from Houston to Vegas just 6-7 DCFC charge, Rivian R1S would be about 11-12 DCFC charges.

Why do you say double the amount of charging stops? Surely the GT does not have twice the range of a Rivian Large pack? 20-25% more from my experience.

 

[BS8899]

Like you, I have driven my Lucid AGT and Rivian R1S (Large pack) on long road trips (780 miles, I-5/I-10). While the Rivian's rated EPA range is significantly lower than that of the Lucid, in actual driving and charging, the Rivian is significantly better than you might think because of the longer, flatter charging curves. On my 780-mile drives, I can get there with 2 charging stops on my Lucid, and 3 in my Rivian. I tend to run the SoC down to 10% or slightly below to minimize the number of stops. I agree that the Rivian Adventure charging network is much cheaper and more reliable than EA.

The Gravity looks like a good design, but don't underestimate the R1S and the R2/R3s.

 

[borski]

Why do you say double the amount of charging stops? Surely the GT does not have twice the range of a Rivian Large pack? 20-25% more from my experience.

Efficiency. Everyone I know that has owned one has told me that the Air goes significantly further on a charge (more than 20-25%).

That said, I haven’t driven a Rivian on a road trip - I’m inclined to listen to @Tesla2.0 since he has both and has driven both on long road trips.

Although, I think the “number of stops” metric is overblown and not as important as most people think it is. It is *so rare* that I am *booking it* to get to a place within a few minutes of a deadline; I can stop an extra time or two and take in the sights or a coffee or whatever.

Sometimes we simply move too fast between experiences, imho. Slow down a bit between drives. Enjoy the journey. That’s my $.02. Maybe I’m more European than I’d like to admit.

(And again, not ragging on Rivian)

 

[joec]

Efficiency. Everyone I know that has owned one has told me that the Air goes significantly further on a charge (more than 20-25%).

That said, I haven’t driven a Rivian on a road trip - I’m inclined to listen to @Tesla2.0 since he has both and has driven both on long road trips.

Although, I think the “number of stops” metric is overblown and not as important as most people think it is. It is *so rare* that I am *booking it* to get to a place within a few minutes of a deadline; I can stop an extra time or two and take in the sights or a coffee or whatever.

Sometimes we simply move too fast between experiences, imho. Slow down a bit between drives. Enjoy the journey. That’s my $.02. Maybe I’m more European than I’d like to admit.

(And again, not ragging on Rivian)

I've found on road trips with my Touring I seldom go far enough in one day to have to charge more than once. Start at 100%. Depending on weather go 280-350 miles. Charge. Go another 280-350 miles. By then I'm pretty tired and ready for bed, anyway.

If I plan my hotels well, I can even often charge overnight, so I'm fully ready in the morning to go another 280-350 miles, charge, go another, plug into the L2 at the hotel, and so on.

Doesn't always work out, of course, because hotels that have chargers are rarer than they should be. And even those that do often only have one or two, which can easily be taken up before I get there. But in that case, I charge first thing in the morning, which forces me to start my day 40 minutes earlier.

And the L3 chargers aren't spaced out perfectly in 280-350 mile increments, of course.

But like you said, not a huge deal. I know there are folks who legit have to drive 1,000 miles a day for their work, etc. But a lot of folks have this Cannonball Run fantasy of getting all the way across the country in two days, and I can tell you: been there, done that. Far from the most enjoyable road trip I've ever taken.

 

[momo3605]

I've found on road trips with my Touring I seldom go far enough in one day to have to charge more than once. Start at 100%. Depending on weather go 280-350 miles. Charge. Go another 280-350 miles. By then I'm pretty tired and ready for bed, anyway.

If I plan my hotels well, I can even often charge overnight, so I'm fully ready in the morning to go another 280-350 miles, charge, go another, plug into the L2 at the hotel, and so on.

Doesn't always work out, of course, because hotels that have chargers are rarer than they should be. And even those that do often only have one or two, which can easily be taken up before I get there. But in that case, I charge first thing in the morning, which forces me to start my day 40 minutes earlier.

And the L3 chargers aren't spaced out perfectly in 280-350 mile increments, of course.

But like you said, not a huge deal. I know there are folks who legit have to drive 1,000 miles a day for their work, etc. But a lot of folks have this Cannonball Run fantasy of getting all the way across the country in two days, and I can tell you: been there, done that. Far from the most enjoyable road trip I've ever taken.

How are you driving 350 miles between charges? On average and depending on DCFC station spacing people tend to average 10-80 or 20-80, which at best is 300 miles if you’re getting EPA 4.7 miles/kw…doesn’t quite add up. Are you saying you regularly do 5+ miles/kw beating EPA figures on road trips? If so, very impressive!

 

[borski]

But a lot of folks have this Cannonball Run fantasy of getting all the way across the country in two days

This is the thing I find fascinating. Literally nobody I know, save one or two people, takes more than one or two of these "cross the country without sleeping" trips in their entire lives.

But everybody thinks they want to be able to twice a week, lol.

 

[xponents]

This is the thing I find fascinating. Literally nobody I know, save one or two people, takes more than one or two of these "cross the country without sleeping" trips in their entire lives.

But everybody thinks they want to be able to twice a week, lol.

Saw somebody say he wouldn't buy an EV unless it had 1000 miles of range (lol), but then I asked him about the range of his 6.2l Suburban. That shut his mouth for some while...