Review of sapphire by MKB

[koflo]

I can't figure it out, either. We had fits with getting into our first Air Dream (No. 154). The fob burned through batteries in no time; even with a fresh battery, getting the car to respond to it was a random outcome; sometimes the doors would open but the trunk wouldn't, sometimes the other way around; etc.

With our second Air Dream (No. 395), things have been different. Batteries last longer; the fob almost always works; the car responds sooner and from a greater distance.

I had attributed this to improvements in the car's software, but now I'm no longer sure.

Based on what Brownlee said, it appears the fob battery was dying during the several days he drove the car before filming, and he (and Lucid) had the bad luck of its finally biting the dust during filming. But this car was a loaner from Lucid. WHY wouldn't Lucid have given him a fob with a fresh battery? It's now a routine part of Lucid service no matter for what other reasons the car goes in. The same rule ought to apply for putting cars in the hands of prominent reviewers.

The comments section on his video were revealing. One commenter who actually likes Lucid said its fob/entry issues were "legendary". Another commenter acknowledged it was a "known issue" with Lucids. And the comments about the key fob were among the more "replied to" comments, so the issue was getting some attention.

Brownlee has almost 1 million subscribers. At 17 hours since posting this video, it's already had almost 378,000 views. It's such a damned shame it had to start with him reporting a 2-hour delay getting into the car.

I’ve always stated in the past that I was unsure or nervous at the very least for lucid to go “mainstream.” I think there are too many consistent issues like the key fob that will tarnish the reputation of lucid. Hell Jon Rettinger who’s another decently big tech tuber bought and sold his lucid due to bad software experiences.

Even here on the forums, we have seen an uptick in users but consequently an uptick in bugs and unhappy customers when it comes to software.

I want lucid to succeed but I do think the more eyes that look at the air, the more people will criticize its (sometimes simple) shortcomings. I do think gravity will fix this issue and hope that’s the car that turns that opinion around.

 

[Bill55]

I can pretty much guarantee Gravity won’t have the same fob issues.

I can also pretty much guarantee the fobs won’t get better for the Air anytime soon; I can’t say why, but I will say it isn’t for a lack of care or concern on Lucid’s part. Their hands are tied for “reasons,” and there’s very little they can do about the fobs for the Airs in the near future. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m doubtful.

With Gravity I can guarantee they didn’t make the same mistakes that tied their hands with the Air fob.

I was told the Gravity will use NFC

 

[xponents]

I was told the Gravity will use NFC

How would it be used? Would it be similar to how the card key works, then?

 

[hmp10]

I’ve always stated in the past that I was unsure or nervous at the very least for lucid to go “mainstream.” I think there are too many consistent issues like the key fob that will tarnish the reputation of lucid. Hell Jon Rettinger who’s another decently big tech tuber bought and sold his lucid due to bad software experiences.

Even here on the forums, we have seen an uptick in users but consequently an uptick in bugs and unhappy customers when it comes to software.

I want lucid to succeed but I do think the more eyes that look at the air, the more people will criticize its (sometimes simple) shortcomings. I do think gravity will fix this issue and hope that’s the car that turns that opinion around.

As I've posted many times on this forum, I view cars as driving machines first and foremost. Software features are fairly low priority for me. I prefer to do my own driving and almost never use ADAS in any of our cars. I don't care a fig about CarPlay or Android Auto. In-car video games, fart features, meditation modes don't impress me.

But getting into and starting up a car, getting it into gear reliably, randomly asking for PINs to be entered are things that do matter to me. The first 10 months I drove an Air before UX 2.0 arrived were a nightmare despite the car's otherwise being the best car I had ever owned or driven, and by a significant margin. UX 2.0 opened up a fairly quick road to putting the Air into the big leagues in terms of software features and performance, even bettering our Tesla in many regards.

But the fact that even as late an arrival as the Sapphire is still having entry issues just boggles my mind.

I understand what @borski says about how deeply embedded the issue is in things that are difficult to fix, and I acknowledge what you were told about supply contracts. But this issue continues to do real damage to Lucid's reputation. It may mean having to buy their way out of a supply contract and/or opening up a redundant supply line. It may mean having to change out hardware in cars already on the road and in new production. But it is serious folly for Lucid to allow Airs to continue with this issue unresolved.

 

[hmp10]

I was told the Gravity will use NFC

But NFC is good only for communication between devices within 4 cm (1.6 inches) of each other. What is its relevance to key fob use?

 

[borski]

Can you elaborate more here on what the specific challenges are? It’s really hard to imagine a worse fob design than what we have right now.

No, I really can’t. I’m sorry. But I will say that of the theories in this thread one might be correct.

Yea but didn’t they test this out before locking themselves into a massive contract? It’s just a huge miss no matter how you slice it. The design is terrible, usability terrible, and functionally it does not work well at all.

This is where you have to remember that when Lucid was looking for manufacturers, they were a brand new company with zero reputation, and the first step to getting someone to supply you with parts is… them picking up your calls.

When you have very few options, or only one, you do the best you can with what you’ve got.

For gravity, lucid is no longer unknown and has the world of options to pick from in terms of suppliers and manufacturers. That was not the case with Air.

I understand what @borski says about how deeply embedded the issue is in things that are difficult to fix, and I acknowledge what you were told about supply contracts. But this issue continues to do real damage to Lucid's reputation. It may mean having to buy their way out of a supply contract and/or opening up a redundant supply line. It may mean having to change out hardware in cars already on the road and in new production. But it is serious folly for Lucid to allow Airs to continue with this issue unresolved.

I agree completely, but they literally can’t. There are many ways to fix it, but as I understand it their hands are basically tied, even for newly-shipping models of Air.

I will say this: I guarantee you the entire exec team is aware of the issues and is not happy about it. They do not want to keep shipping the same janky fobs.

 

[Bill55]

How would it be used? Would it be similar to how the card key works, then?

Sorry got side tracked and posted without finishing. Indication was the system would be using a LF radio like most other manufacturers. LF will allow for a more precise location of the fob. Conceptually will have functionality like current system. Unfortunately this is a hardware change and will not help our cars.

 

[hmp10]

I agree completely, but they literally can’t. There are many ways to fix it, but as I understand it their hands are basically tied, even for newly-shipping models of Air.

I will say this: I guarantee you the entire exec team is aware of the issues and is not happy about it. They do not want to keep shipping the same janky fobs.

Very interesting. That must have been some hell of a contract lockup on the supplier's end.

Is there no workaround available, such as shipping the cars with the current hardware but then offering a retrofit kit for customers who experience the fob problems?

 

[elusive7]

Attended the recent Owner's Event in Chicago. New fob in the Gravity is a MASSIVE upgrade compared to the ones we have in our Airs. Feels extremely premium in hand with 4 physical buttons. Feels comparable to Porsche/MB's keyfob. Hoping it'll trickle down to our Airs..

 

[SteveS]

A little anecdote related to the original topic of this thread: I was chatting with Peter Rawlinson yesterday evening at the grand opening celebration for Lucid's Pasadena studio. He told me about MKB's review; he had obviously watched the whole thing and was (understandably) visibly thrilled with it. Peter also didn't know where MKB had gotten the car he reviewed---not through Lucid corporate!

 

[borski]

Is there no workaround available, such as shipping the cars with the current hardware but then offering a retrofit kit for customers who experience the fob problems?

I don’t know. I’m not on the inside.

But I’m somewhat certain if there were they would have done something about it by now.

 

[RM-S8]

eir hands are tied for “reasons,” and there’s very little they can do about the fobs for the Airs in the near future. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m doubtful.

What would be a s reason?

 

[xponents]

What would be a s reason?

Perhaps them prioritizing Gravity/midsize? Or maybe an Air refresh? Still doesn't make it up to the customers, though.

 

[segbrk]

I was told the Gravity will use NFC

Not NFC, but UWB (ultra wide band). Acronym soup. The current fob has NFC (near field communication, very low range as @hmp10 mentioned), that's the tap-to-unlock for when the battery is dead. UWB replaces Bluetooth, and like you said, should give it a much better idea of how close the fob is. Bluetooth keying uses signal strength. If you think about the old rabbit ear TVs where the signal becomes clearer depending on the way you contort your body while watching it, you can imagine how inaccurate that is. Too many influencing factors. Including, I'd bet, your battery voltage dropping as it drains means you have to get closer and closer before it thinks you're close enough. UWB keying just uses flight time. Doesn't matter if the signal is weak or strong, if the signal gets there at all, it can measure how far away you are like radar. Much better.

All that said, I doubt that is the big problem with our fobs. It's a problem, but not the big one. The big one is that the power usage is just way too high for some reason. I have "smart home" devices that run on the same coin cell battery for over a year, signaling whatever data they signal wirelessly every few seconds. There's no good reason for it to act like this.

 

[hydbob]

Perhaps them prioritizing Gravity/midsize? Or maybe an Air refresh? Still doesn't make it up to the customers, though.

You are incorrect.

 

[borski]

What would be a s reason?

As I said, I cannot say. I promise I’m not just trying to be cute.

Perhaps them prioritizing Gravity/midsize? Or maybe an Air refresh? Still doesn't make it up to the customers, though.

No.

 

[AlignTrex]

All new key fob for gravity.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...eH51KXhZCmSHbOyYtTFDhkqOAcrHrDJWAX4GoHh0EWnwT

 

[Knucklehead]

If the fob fails, can't you just unlock the car with the app or with PaaK?

 

[Leftlane]

If I had the money the Sapphire would be at the top of my list - really does have every single thing I would want out of a car (except the price tag). I love that color too.

 

[hmp10]

If the fob fails, can't you just unlock the car with the app or with PaaK?

Maybe. But have you ever been in a daily Florida downpour during rainy season?

Actually, folks, I think I'm the one that first took this thread in this direction, but I'm kinda regretting it. The MKB review was a wonderful win for a phenomenal car and should get more attention for that. The fact that Brownlee even listed build quality as one of the best-in-class features of the Sapphire he drove for a week indicates just how much ground Lucid has covered since Air production started.

At the same time, the way in which this leg of the discussion caught fire does indicate how serious this key fob issue remains for the Air. I accept what @borski has to say about the matter, though, and can only trust that this issue will not bleed over to the Gravity.