Recent Tesla service forum post

Volund

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Lucid Air Grand Touring

Reading this was a WILD ride. I'm glad I'm no longer part of that ecosystem..

Tl;dr
Owner's Tesla Model Y gets into an accident, dude doesn't have insurance, but that doesn't even matter because there's no Tesla certified body shops that don't have a 200+ queue in front within a 300+ mile radius. The quotes he received was at least December to get a quote and then May to get it worked on/fixed.

Can't even imagine being in an accident and having to wait 7+ months for a fix all at your expense.
 
I had a scrape on a Model 3, and I contacted a Tesla owned body shop through the app. The appointment was more than a month out. A few days after I made it, I got a call from Tesla asking if I could bring the car in next Tuesday instead. (4 days later) I've used their shop before twice, each time on a different car. The previous time, they came in at about half the cost of a nearby Tesla approved shop. The down side is that when I bring the car in, they don't get to it for a few days, at which point they can do a tear down for a complete estimate. But all things considered, I would recommend them over other places I've used for other cars.

As far as service for non body work, it was great in 2014, went downhill by 2016, was still not bad in 2018 but not "luxury service," got to the point that you couldn't reach them on the phone, but then got to the point that you can use the app for appointments and communication. At this point, it's relatively easy to schedule at-home service, and get good quality work. So it's a mixed bag. I haven't needed Lucid service yet, but I hope that it's closer to what Tesla was early on.
 
I had a scrape on a Model 3, and I contacted a Tesla owned body shop through the app. The appointment was more than a month out. A few days after I made it, I got a call from Tesla asking if I could bring the car in next Tuesday instead. (4 days later) I've used their shop before twice, each time on a different car. The previous time, they came in at about half the cost of a nearby Tesla approved shop. The down side is that when I bring the car in, they don't get to it for a few days, at which point they can do a tear down for a complete estimate. But all things considered, I would recommend them over other places I've used for other cars.

As far as service for non body work, it was great in 2014, went downhill by 2016, was still not bad in 2018 but not "luxury service," got to the point that you couldn't reach them on the phone, but then got to the point that you can use the app for appointments and communication. At this point, it's relatively easy to schedule at-home service, and get good quality work. So it's a mixed bag. I haven't needed Lucid service yet, but I hope that it's closer to what Tesla was early on.
The issue I had was you can never talk to anyone. If you called the service center, they ask you to use the app. Pretty lousy service afer spending 60k.

Lucid is miles ahead and much better with their service.
 
The issue I had was you can never talk to anyone. If you called the service center, they ask you to use the app. Pretty lousy service afer spending 60k.

Lucid is miles ahead and much better with their service.

Yes, it used to be that when you went to the service center, they greeted you by name as soon as you walked in. Presumably, they knew not just who had appointments but who drove what, so it was easy enough. You'd be treated to something to drink, sit down at a desk with an advisor, and when they were done with the car, they'd take it back to your house and pick up the loaner. Contacting them was no problem. Sometimes, they'd let you know that they had scheduled you for things that you didn't even know were issues, but they checked the diagnostics ahead of time.

They might still have a policy about returning the car to my house but it's a moot point if all I get is a message on the app to come pick up the car.
 
So glad to be out of the Tesla service nightmare. My local SC was just impossible. NEVER any loaners, a queue to the door every day of people with “appointments” needing to be checked in and really awful communication. I used to refuse Ubers and make sure I was marked as WAITING and just go for a walk to a nearby cafe so they’d at least be sort of held to working on it that day.
 
So I realize you have to sift through a little bit of fanboy here, just like you do everywhere else, but one thing most people generally acknowledge is that the irritation people feel about Lucid's "work in progress" software pales in comparison to the frustration the average Tesla owner feels when dealing with Tesla. I know one person who left Tesla because he felt they didn't care at all about customers after the purchase. From everything I've been able to see, you can't say that about Lucid.
 
So I realize you have to sift through a little bit of fanboy here, just like you do everywhere else, but one thing most people generally acknowledge is that the irritation people feel about Lucid's "work in progress" software pales in comparison to the frustration the average Tesla owner feels when dealing with Tesla. I know one person who left Tesla because he felt they didn't care at all about customers after the purchase. From everything I've been able to see, you can't say that about Lucid.
Lucid service is miles ahead. Software not as good as Tesla, but its better than many other manufacturers. Software is being improved, so I'm not all pissed off about that. Did you know you have to drop off the Taycan at Porsche dealership to get a software update? All things considered, Lucid is the best EV you can get. Not speaking as a fanboy, go check the reviews and it is why it got World Car of The Year and Motortrend car of the year. There is reason for the " madness "..... its not just fanboyism!
 
So glad to be out of the Tesla service nightmare. My local SC was just impossible. NEVER any loaners, a queue to the door every day of people with “appointments” needing to be checked in and really awful communication. I used to refuse Ubers and make sure I was marked as WAITING and just go for a walk to a nearby cafe so they’d at least be sort of held to working on it that day.
Like you, this was one of the deciding factors for me to get away from Tesla. Last September I had an appointment at the service center for my final service for my 2018 Model S, and was told it would take 3 hours. When I arrived I was told Tesla no longer offers loaners unless the work is warranty work. I was furious! Service center was an hour from home, and I wound up waiting over 5 hours for them to complete the work. Horrible customer service, not to mention not close to Lexus/Mercedes standard.
 
Like you, this was one of the deciding factors for me to get away from Tesla. Last September I had an appointment at the service center for my final service for my 2018 Model S, and was told it would take 3 hours. When I arrived I was told Tesla no longer offers loaners unless the work is warranty work. I was furious! Service center was an hour from home, and I wound up waiting over 5 hours for them to complete the work. Horrible customer service, not to mention not close to Lexus/Mercedes standard.
Like many here I have never considered Tesla to be a luxury car maker. A maker of fast electric cars that can go significant distance without recharging and quality available chargers...yes. Luxury...no. So it doesn't surprise me that Tesla service does not compare to companies like Lexus/Mercedes.

That is one of the reasons that I have never compared Lucid to Tesla. But I think it is a fair comparison for Lucid to compete with the Mercedes EQ series, BMW I7 and I5, Porsche Taycan, etc.
 
As far as service for non body work, it was great in 2014, went downhill by 2016, was still not bad in 2018 but not "luxury service," got to the point that you couldn't reach them on the phone, but then got to the point that you can use the app for appointments and communication. At this point, it's relatively easy to schedule at-home service, and get good quality work. So it's a mixed bag. I haven't needed Lucid service yet, but I hope that it's closer to what Tesla was early on.

This mirrors our experience. Our first EV was a 2015 Tesla Model S. The service (usually by mobile tech) was exemplary up until the introduction of the Model 3, which seemed to overwhelm Tesla service capacity almost overnight. Tesla has evolved its service approach continuously since, mostly by becoming more internet/app based with humans becoming ever less accessible. We now have a 2021 Model S Plaid. On our most recent visit, we found that even standing in front of a service advisor at his desk, we were still referred to the app for two of our requests. We inquired about having the yoke replaced with a steering wheel and were told we had to order it through the app and then bring it in to the Service Center for installation. We also tried (for the third time) to resolve an issue with buying an extended warranty that Tesla still offers on the Model S and were told that it could only be resolved through a request made via internet (which has already run into dead ends twice).

On this visit another customer came into the Service Center complaining that his new Model S had left him stranded on the roadside and that the earliest appointment he could procure on the app was ten days out. He had come into the Service Center to see if he could expedite the matter. Voices became raised, and someone from the sales area overheard the commotion and joined the fray, backing up the service advisor's position that the matter could only be handled through the app. The guy protested that this was ridiculous service response for a $130,000 car (a Plaid, apparently) and was still standing there slack-jawed when we left.

At least our newer Tesla has required considerably less service than the original Tesla. On the other hand, our Lucid DE-P has required quite a bit of service attention. The saving grace, though, has been Lucid's extreme responsiveness, sometimes undertaking efforts and expenses that I think are almost excessive and have on occasion actually declined out of concern for using resources that could be applied to other customers with more pressing needs.

I am watching closely -- and a bit anxiously -- to see if Lucid maintains this level of service or begins to turn down the path that Tesla pursued into internet/app hell.
 
Like many here I have never considered Tesla to be a luxury car maker. A maker of fast electric cars that can go significant distance without recharging and quality available chargers...yes. Luxury...no. So it doesn't surprise me that Tesla service does not compare to companies like Lexus/Mercedes.
Tesla unquestionably gave luxury level service back when the Model S was their only offering.
So glad to be out of the Tesla service nightmare. My local SC was just impossible. NEVER any loaners, a queue to the door every day of people with “appointments” needing to be checked in and really awful communication. I used to refuse Ubers and make sure I was marked as WAITING and just go for a walk to a nearby cafe so they’d at least be sort of held to working on it that day.

I also went there to wait and found that it took far longer than expected, especially considering that I had a specific appointment time. Unfortunately, many third party shops are like that too.

In that instance, I went there for new tires. There was a tire shortage at the time and nowhere else to get them. The holdup was likely between when the tires were finished and when they could do the alignment. The surprise was that they found that the alignment was just about within specs with one number being off by a tiny fraction so they adjusted it at no charge. So overall, it wasn't worse than a tire shop and probably a bit better. But not as good as it could have been when a customer is waiting around. I might have been better off taking an Uber, and would have, had it not been at the peak of COVID-19.



But to be fair, there are up sides to Tesla's recent service. I had the repeater cameras swapped out for newer versions. They came to my house to do it, and the labor cost came out to $12.50 per camera. I had seen lots of YouTube videos on how to do it yourself, and in this case, it was a matter of opening the garage door when someone showed up. It might have cost me more to do it myself if I had to pick up parts.
 
This mirrors our experience. Our first EV was a 2015 Tesla Model S. The service (usually by mobile tech) was exemplary up until the introduction of the Model 3, which seemed to overwhelm Tesla service capacity almost overnight. Tesla has evolved its service approach continuously since, mostly by becoming more internet/app based with humans becoming ever less accessible.

I'd say that it was after that period. I have a Model 3, VIN 5xx, so it's an early one. When the 3 came out, they moved the service center from the factory to a stand alone shop in Fremont and made every effort to give good service. One issue that I had was that the original suspension was very tight and it got lots of complaints from reviewers and people online. Tesla redesigned it around January 2018. I had neither a defect nor a warranty issue but when I complained, they completely rebuilt my suspension with the new components for free.

They also did lots of preventative work, replaced components that showed no problem with ones with newer revisions, and did a lot of things where they came to my house to change things that never gave problems.

After that, it became impossible to contact them for anything, and it wasn't until everything started going through the app that I was able to schedule things easily. Communication was no problem if they sent someone to my house, but getting someone on the phone was and probably still is nearly impossible.

I got the feeling that if you called and left a message, they just gave it to the mechanic who would wait until it's done before contacting you.

On this visit another customer came into the Service Center complaining that his new Model S had left him stranded on the roadside and that the earliest appointment he could procure on the app was ten days out.

It used to be that they gave priority to certain things and that was one of them. Once I had broken glass on the roof of a Model S. Appointments were about a week out, but they called and told me to bring it in the next day because broken glass was a potential safety hazard, even though it was intact. That was in the days that they gave loaners.

Despite any of this, I'd still recommend Tesla owned body shops over most independent ones. Communication is better and work quality is top notch. They are backed up because Tesla has too few shops.
 
Like many here I have never considered Tesla to be a luxury car maker. A maker of fast electric cars that can go significant distance without recharging and quality available chargers...yes. Luxury...no. So it doesn't surprise me that Tesla service does not compare to companies like Lexus/Mercedes.

That is one of the reasons that I have never compared Lucid to Tesla. But I think it is a fair comparison for Lucid to compete with the Mercedes EQ series, BMW I7 and I5, Porsche Taycan, etc.
As was said above, Tesla most certainly started as a premium brand. I was an early adopter, and as Hmp10 said, they treated their customers like royalty in the beginning. It slowly deteriorated right after Model 3 came into the mix. Very much like Genesis owners in the beginning had to deal with Hyundai service. Now Genesis has separated themselves with their own sales/service.
 
This mirrors our experience. Our first EV was a 2015 Tesla Model S. The service (usually by mobile tech) was exemplary up until the introduction of the Model 3, which seemed to overwhelm Tesla service capacity almost overnight. Tesla has evolved its service approach continuously since, mostly by becoming more internet/app based with humans becoming ever less accessible. We now have a 2021 Model S Plaid. On our most recent visit, we found that even standing in front of a service advisor at his desk, we were still referred to the app for two of our requests. We inquired about having the yoke replaced with a steering wheel and were told we had to order it through the app and then bring it in to the Service Center for installation. We also tried (for the third time) to resolve an issue with buying an extended warranty that Tesla still offers on the Model S and were told that it could only be resolved through a request made via internet (which has already run into dead ends twice).

On this visit another customer came into the Service Center complaining that his new Model S had left him stranded on the roadside and that the earliest appointment he could procure on the app was ten days out. He had come into the Service Center to see if he could expedite the matter. Voices became raised, and someone from the sales area overheard the commotion and joined the fray, backing up the service advisor's position that the matter could only be handled through the app. The guy protested that this was ridiculous service response for a $130,000 car (a Plaid, apparently) and was still standing there slack-jawed when we left.

At least our newer Tesla has required considerably less service than the original Tesla. On the other hand, our Lucid DE-P has required quite a bit of service attention. The saving grace, though, has been Lucid's extreme responsiveness, sometimes undertaking efforts and expenses that I think are almost excessive and have on occasion actually declined out of concern for using resources that could be applied to other customers with more pressing needs.

I am watching closely -- and a bit anxiously -- to see if Lucid maintains this level of service or begins to turn down the path that Tesla pursued into internet/app hell.
Lucid wont be selling enough cars to be in that predicament. Tesla wants expansion/volume at any cost. Tesla is happy to compromise quality and cutomer care. Lucid is marketing itself as a Mercedes competitor. I don't seem them lagging in the curomer service front!
 
Lucid wont be selling enough cars to be in that predicament. Tesla wants expansion/volume at any cost. Tesla is happy to compromise quality and cutomer care. Lucid is marketing itself as a Mercedes competitor. I don't seem them lagging in the curomer service front!

Lucid has been seeing itself more as a Mercedes competitor and with good reasons. Aside from Lucid offering more luxury, and being an option for Mercedes owners who don't want the sparseness of a Tesla, Lucid took that position when Tesla was selling about 30,000 cars per year. Getting a slice of that rather than getting a slice of the auto industry at large would have been a mistake. All the other companies that wanted to be seen as "Tesla killers" kept failing. That being said, there are a surprising number of Tesla owners moving to Lucid, or getting one in addition to their Tesla(s).

In terms of quality, I think that complaints about Tesla need to be put in context. Tesla, especially at the time new models came out, was at a rush to get cars out by EOQ and have the revenue on the books. So they took cars that any other company would have sent for rework before leaving the factory and delivering them to customers. Then customers had to have Tesla take care of little things that slipped through. With my GT, there were also a number of things like that, which I have to have taken care of. Had Tesla sent those cars for rework, they would have been on par with other companies, but it's not as if the ones coming off the line are more likely to need rework than ones coming off the lines for other companies. They are made as well initially, but have the rework done at the wrong part of the vehicle's lifecycle. It's not as if they are falling apart once that gets done.

Customer care did take a nose dive at some point after the Model 3 came out. When it first came out, they were backlogged and overworked but still took good care of customers. They did things for me that no other company would have done. Then over time, communication became impossible. It was tough dealing with them. Eventually, it became easy to schedule service through the app, meaning that if you got in home service, it was good quality and the person was right there to deal with. Anything that needed a shop visit meant getting an Uber ride back home and them getting to things when they got to them. It isn't high end service, and isn't terrible compared to low end cars. It's not where it should be for cars in that price range.
 
In terms of quality, I think that complaints about Tesla need to be put in context. Tesla, especially at the time new models came out, was at a rush to get cars out by EOQ and have the revenue on the books. So they took cars that any other company would have sent for rework before leaving the factory and delivering them to customers. Then customers had to have Tesla take care of little things that slipped through. With my GT, there were also a number of things like that, which I have to have taken care of. Had Tesla sent those cars for rework, they would have been on par with other companies, but it's not as if the ones coming off the line are more likely to need rework than ones coming off the lines for other companies. They are made as well initially, but have the rework done at the wrong part of the vehicle's lifecycle. It's not as if they are falling apart once that gets done.

Reworking identified problems is a basic part of auto manufacturing. Deliberately putting off rework until the vehicle is in the customer hands is more egregious IMO than making the error in the first place.
 
Reworking identified problems is a basic part of auto manufacturing. Deliberately putting off rework until the vehicle is in the customer hands is more egregious IMO than making the error in the first place.
Perhaps, but it's not indicative of long term problems. More to the point, it's not an objective measure. If you look at JD Power's report, they said that the average premium vehicle had 204 problems per hundred vehicles, while Tesla had 226. That works out to about two initial problems per vehicle on average, and for Tesla, the chances on average of having a third one were only about 25% higher. For 3/4 of buyers, there were no additional problems. And these are the types of things that Tesla sent somebody to people's homes to fix, not problems with the cars breaking down in the middle of the road.

If people are going to buy a car, what counts is day to day satisfaction. My Lucid has a number of initial problems, and it's more than three. I expect them to be fixed in a single visit, but I will have to bring the car in. So the extent to which this is inconveniencing me is high compared to having somebody come to my house, but it's also a few hours out of a day or two for a car that I might own a decade. The idea of buying a different car that I like less on a day to day basis to avoid that service visit isn't one that makes sense to me. I could have stuck with my Teslas, since the initial problems were taken care of, and even with the warranty long since expired, they've been low maintenance. And buying a car with one less initial problem than a Tesla, and having a car that I liked less on a day to day basis because of it, would have seemed even more irrational to me.

On a Tesla vs Lucid basis, it's too early to tell which might have more initial problems after delivery. But I don't think that most buyers care about that enough that it would have affected their buying decisions. Many of us remember what cars were like up to the 1980s, when it was a question of how often your car broke down, stalled out, or needed service rather than if it would happen. Back then, it did make a big difference when buying a car whether one brand might have left you with a car that you couldn't trust to get you to work or might have broken down on a trip. So reliability was a significant factor when buying a car, and on a scale of 1 to 100, it made sense for a lot of those points to come from reliability. These days, it's a bigger negative for me that Lucid has a repair center in Burlingame instead of Newark than it is whether I have an extra minor thing or two go wrong. Consumer organizations are going by an outdated paradigm.

The problem is that when a range might go from 192 to 240 and 240 could make you 25th on the list of reliable cars, it's easy to lose track of the fact that the real life difference might come down to an average of an extra minor problem. Those aren't the actual numbers, but when my daughter's Chevy Cruze had bad sun visors, I had to take it in, wait in line at a service desk, deal with a courtesy shuttle that wasted hours, only to get a call at the end of the day telling me that they identified a problem that I knew from the onset, they needed parts, I needed the shuttle to get me back to pick up the car, and then repeat the whole process, that single item wasted more of my time than I expect all Lucid problems combined might do. And the second time around, they didn't finish on time.

That was the total effort for sun visors. Compare that to my Model S. The early ones had a bad bearing design that caused drive trains to be noisy. Tesla dealt with it by dropping the drive train, and instead of rebuilding it with new bearings, keeping the car for a week, and hassling the owner, once they dropped the drive train, they replaced it with a remanufactured one with a new bearing design, then returned the car to my house and picked up the loaner. On paper, one was a minor issue with sun visors and the other was an entire drive train replacement. It made it look like Tesla was a lot worse. But it was bearing noise and an easy (from my perspective) repair vs a nightmare of one.

The other thing that people like to excoriate Tesla over is panel gaps and alignment. If I look at every molding on my Lucid, going from one door to the next or to the trunk, etc. it's not perfect. There are much cheaper cars that might have had things a mm closer. People act as if that's a reason to buy a car that I'd like less. I disagree.
 
Lucid has been seeing itself more as a Mercedes competitor and with good reasons. Aside from Lucid offering more luxury, and being an option for Mercedes owners who don't want the sparseness of a Tesla, Lucid took that position when Tesla was selling about 30,000 cars per year. Getting a slice of that rather than getting a slice of the auto industry at large would have been a mistake. All the other companies that wanted to be seen as "Tesla killers" kept failing. That being said, there are a surprising number of Tesla owners moving to Lucid, or getting one in addition to their Tesla(s).

In terms of quality, I think that complaints about Tesla need to be put in context. Tesla, especially at the time new models came out, was at a rush to get cars out by EOQ and have the revenue on the books. So they took cars that any other company would have sent for rework before leaving the factory and delivering them to customers. Then customers had to have Tesla take care of little things that slipped through. With my GT, there were also a number of things like that, which I have to have taken care of. Had Tesla sent those cars for rework, they would have been on par with other companies, but it's not as if the ones coming off the line are more likely to need rework than ones coming off the lines for other companies. They are made as well initially, but have the rework done at the wrong part of the vehicle's lifecycle. It's not as if they are falling apart once that gets done.

Customer care did take a nose dive at some point after the Model 3 came out. When it first came out, they were backlogged and overworked but still took good care of customers. They did things for me that no other company would have done. Then over time, communication became impossible. It was tough dealing with them. Eventually, it became easy to schedule service through the app, meaning that if you got in home service, it was good quality and the person was right there to deal with. Anything that needed a shop visit meant getting an Uber ride back home and them getting to things when they got to them. It isn't high end service, and isn't terrible compared to low end cars. It's not where it should be for cars in that price range.
The numbers speak for themselves
 
The numbers speak for themselves
Yes they do and they back up what I said. There's a minor difference but on a per-vehicle basis, it's 2.57 for Tesla. It doesn't show the average for premium vehicles, but the overall average is 1.92. So the average person can expect two problems, and about half of Tesla owners would have one extra problem and the rest would have the average number of problems. So people would see no to little difference, and most of those brands are ones that won't show up at an owner's home.

In fact, most of those are ICEVs, so if a person wants to go by that chart so they can minimize service visits, getting most of those others would have an extra 10 visits for oil changes and one for a complete brake job over the next five years. So they'd spend more time taking their vehicles to the shop and that 57% chance of one more minor problem would still leave them with a car that needed far less time in the shop.

It also shows that the overall range is so narrow that the one that shines will have one problem less than average for most users, but still about 40% will have the average number of problems. It like growing grass on a mountain top and saying that if you care about the height of the mountain, you'd pick the blade of grass that's tallest.
 
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