Out of Spec - Gravity vs Escalade

[tjhappel]

That’s roughly 11-17% more efficient than your numbers though. Spread it out over a full charge and the lifetime of the car, that’s close to a ton of improvement.

Agree

 

[Knucklehead]

No chance! I have a 22 GT and at 75 mph, I am getting around 330-340.

I think (based on your posts) you have been running the largest tires on your GT. I am assuming the most efficient wheels on the Gravity, which is what is needed to achieve 450 miles of EPA range. Add in a couple seats, and that drops to 437. A good estimate for real highway range (in good weather) is 80% of EPA. So that puts the Gravity at 350.

Can anyone confirm this?

In the OOS 70 mph test, the 2025 Air achieved EPA range. That is very impressive, and much better than the older model they tested. They tested it with the most efficient, 19" wheels, of course.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

This seems about right based on things we’ve all been reading posted here, and I will just point out that some of the gains are not from efficiency…the battery capacity (despite the same form factor) increased by slightly over 5%. So, efficiency gains were good for roughly 10% and battery another 5…

 

[Neurio]

In the OOS 70 mph test, the 2025 Air achieved EPA range. That is very impressive, and much better than the older model they tested. They tested it with the most efficient, 19" wheels, of course.

Don't forget too that the EPA testing changed in the past year or so, making the old 516 miles overinflated with the current testing paradigm. The 2025 GT getting 512 is way more efficient than the prior model years.

The Gravity is being tested with the updated EPA test, so the mileage should be more accurate.

 

[momo3605]

Charging speed is another big deal. The R1 isn't great and right now there are L2 charging speed issues. Really, if Rivian cannot fix the L2 charging speed issue, I think I cannot get one. In some Gen2 trucks L2 is slowing so much as it goes over 80% that I don't know if I can fully charge it overnight. Totally unacceptable, IMO.

I really, really hope Lucid has fixed the 400V charging speed issue with Gravity. As you point out, they claim they have, but what is the speed at 400V? 150 kW? 200 kW? I doubt it will be higher than 200. My guess it will top out at around 150 kW.

The R1 gen1 large pack does great on the highway. OOS got 345 out of theirs. And I can confirm these are realistic. With the chunky All-Terrains and a 291 EPA rating, I was doing 300 easy at 70-75mph. (2.4 miles/kwh from a 130kwh battery). I had a loaner with the aero 21s and the efficiency was hovering between 2.6 and 3.0 over city/highway driving.

I will admit…the charging curve is not a strength. It takes about 40 minutes to charge to 80%, but so does my Air Touring, so I can’t say Lucid has that in the bag either

 

[Knucklehead]

The R1 gen1 large pack does great on the highway. OOS got 345 out of theirs. And I can confirm these are realistic. With the chunky All-Terrains and a 291 EPA rating, I was doing 300 easy at 70-75mph. (2.4 miles/kwh from a 130kwh battery). I had a loaner with the aero 21s and the efficiency was hovering between 2.6 and 3.0 over city/highway driving.

I will admit…the charging curve is not a strength. It takes about 40 minutes to charge to 80%, but so does my Air Touring, so I can’t say Lucid has that in the bag either

The OOS test I was referring to was the latest one and the most efficient R1 configuration. EPA 420 mi. I understand the weather wasn't good, but 260 miles for a vehicle with 420 miles of range it's pretty depressing.

Thank you for sharing your experience because it really does matter. In the video Kyle said they would test the R1T Gen2 again when the weather is better.

 

[momo3605]

The OOS test I was referring to was the latest one and the most efficient R1 configuration. EPA 420 mi. I understand the weather wasn't good, but 260 miles for a vehicle with 420 miles of range it's pretty depressing.

Thank you for sharing your experience because it really does matter. In the video Kyle said they would test the R1T Gen2 again when the weather is better.

Yea I have no explanation for Gen 2 Tests being so poor. I know Gen 2 large pack is way smaller than Gen 1 so I can understand the results of that one being lower. But max pack should be best. No idea…

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Minivans are ugly and SUVs look cool.

Minivans are ugly and SUVs are ugly and stupid when used as cars, as most are.

A big SUV means sitting up high and having a better view of the traffic in front and around you.

I would like to see a new vehicle advertisement that shows real-world driving...like how it looks sitting in traffic on the Schuylkill Expressway on a Sunday when the Eagles have a game. Advertisers always show an empty road in a beautiful place. Nope...I need a vehicle that can creep along in heavy traffic for hours, bouncing into potholes and tramlining along the cracks.

And you can drive over stuff.

A mom did exactly that at the pre-school near me. It was her own kid she backed over. She had one of the largest SUVs GM makes.
Ironically, she doesn't have the visibility she thought, other than for the horrific looks on the faces of the teachers and parents

The list of top priority features in my new BEV is the following:

4. The ability to haul a 4x8 sheet of drywall.

I take my Air to the home center often. I have the optional cargo box for the inside when I need a load of mulch or fertilizer or a large selection of shrubbery:

NI!

So fitting a 4' x 8' something is a good euphemism for "Does it fit all my kid's stuff when they move and want me to store their crap in my basement, again?" I once put ten 8' tables inside the Volvo wagon and drove them to the school. Tailgate shut. Another time I went to Sears and bought a snow-thrower. When I pulled up to the loading dock they thought I was going to put it on the roof (two-stage 24" still in the shipping box). I folded the seats and loaded it myself, then shut the tailgate. They were gobsmacked. Volvo wagons are bigger on the inside ... some kind of weird Viking physics thing. So yeah, I'm looking for an EV wagon...the Gravity, if it's as low as it looks, may be my ticket.

road bike fit's inside the Air.
also a complete set of 21"s

local Lucid owner believed the sidewall bubble myth and sold me this set about half price. I loaded then in the Air and drove home with a big smile. Had them two years now. No worries. Fantastic ride. I love them. Can't hardly wait for summer.

Maybe for the smallest wheels with the Hankooks. I don't think that will be realistic for the wheel/tire packages rated at 386 miles. But hoping I'm wrong.

Why is the tire information a secret? Does anyone know what tire options it offers? Any high-profile A/S or winter options, or are they all low-profile smooth road California tires?

I can't believe I'm on the Gravity page. I'm even thinking I should put a deposit down ... on a SUV. Hell is freezing over.

 

[hmp10]

Why is the tire information a secret? Does anyone know what tire options it offers? Any high-profile A/S or winter options, or are they all low-profile smooth road California tires?

I'm a little confused by the questions.

The Gravity offers three wheel options. The smallest and middle sizes come with all-season tires: Hankook ion EVO tires on the 20/21" wheels, and Michelin Primacy Touring AS on the 21/22" wheels. Only the largest wheels (22/23") have high-performance, ultra-low-profile summer tires: the Pirelli P Zero PZ4. (This information is on the order configurator if you click the info button in the wheel selection tab. It's a little tricky to find.)

Depending on which wheel size you choose, you can mount pretty much any category of tire on the Gravity, from full snow tires to max performance summer tires. The issue (at least for me) is that the staggered wheel diameters severely limit the choice of brands if you want to keep a matched set on all four corners. For instance, with the 22/23" wheels, nothing will currently fit except Pirelli P Zeros and Michelin Pilot Sports (and that's if you don't care if the speed ratings differ on the front and rear axles) . . . and the Pirelli P Zero rear tires cost over $1,000 each.

 

[hmp10]

After letting this Escalade review settle in for a couple of days, I just went back to watch the wrap-up segments of it and of the Gravity test drive review Conner did a few weeks ago.

I cannot imagine a clearer presentation of how two American car companies can represent such diametrically opposed ends of automotive philosophy with two products in the same vehicle category with the same propulsion method.

In an era when many buyers increasingly assess cars more as mobile computers and personal assistants than as transportation devices, neither Lucid nor Cadillac puts software front and center in their efforts, with the vehicles themselves remaining the primary focus.

Within that focus, the Escalade seems all about transplanting the car ethos of the 1950's -- huge, flashy, self-indulgent -- into the modern era with a big finger defiantly given to the emerging realities of a changing, more crowded world. The Gravity seems all about reaching back to bring the different tradition of sport driving into a modern era with the growing need to emphasize energy efficiency.

It will be interesting to see how the buying public votes with their purchases.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

The Gravity offers three wheel options. The smallest and middle sizes come with all-season tires: Hankook ion EVO tires on the 20/21" wheels, and Michelin Primacy Touring AS on the 21/22" wheels. Only the largest wheels (22/23") have high-performance, ultra-low-profile summer tires: the Pirelli P Zero PZ4. (This information is on the order configurator if you click the info button in the wheel selection tab. It's a little tricky to find.)

Thank @hmp 10. I could not find tire infomation on the LucidMotors site. I still can't find where you found this.
Ah ha.... went there again and clicked on the very tiny + and found the info I was looking for:

Tire specifications: 265/45/R21 (Front / 285/40R22 (Rear) Michelin Primacy Tour A/S.

I want a large sidewall because the highways in PA are the worst in the nation.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Sorry I meant the "i" . Very well hidden information ! I see the stock wheels are:
265/50R20 (Front) / 285/45R21 (Rear)

That seems sufficient. The wheels are hideous.

black wheels = gangster punk? Is that what Lucid is marketing for ? How about the normal silver wheels for normal people ? I don't get the stealth look. Are there really that many Mennonites ? ( "plain" folk do drive cars, but black ones with the brightwork painted black).

I could have the wheels painted silver...

 

[xponents]

black wheels = gangster punk? Is that what Lucid is marketing for ?

Hey, look at this drug dealer car with black rims!

 

[msaunders9430]

Hey, look at this drug dealer car with black rims!
View attachment 26005

One of Snoop Dogg's rides.

 

[flarbear]

Sorry I meant the "i" . Very well hidden information ! I see the stock wheels are:
265/50R20 (Front) / 285/45R21 (Rear)

That seems sufficient. The wheels are hideous.

black wheels = gangster punk? Is that what Lucid is marketing for ? How about the normal silver wheels for normal people ? I don't get the stealth look. Are there really that many Mennonites ? ( "plain" folk do drive cars, but black ones with the brightwork painted black).

I could have the wheels painted silver...

I also don't like the black wheels for a different reason. I grew up in a world where cheap cars had steel wheels painted black, cars that wanted to appear nicer had the same wheels, but silvery hub caps that snapped over them, and cars that cared about handling came with alloy wheels painted some variant of silver. So, black wheels feel cheap to me.

The Gravity can be configured with 2 types of trim, though (in the "Appearance" tab). The base model is Stealth, but you can request Platinum which replaces a number of blacked out pieces with chrome and silver. In the configurator it also replaces the 2 upgraded wheels with silver equivalents, but so far it leaves the base wheels black. People on the forum have already noted the discrepancy and wished for silver versions of the base wheels, but there is no indication that those exist.

 

[momo3605]

The issue (at least for me) is that the staggered wheel diameters severely limit the choice of brands if you want to keep a matched set on all four corners. For instance, with the 22/23" wheels, nothing will currently fit except Pirelli P Zeros and Michelin Pilot Sports (and that's if you don't care if the speed ratings differ on the front and rear axles) . . . and the Pirelli P Zero rear tires cost over $1,000 each.

One issue you might have going with the summer tires is that even though the EPA rating is x% lower...it's still done using a conservative drive cycle. Going 75 or 80 or faster will cause an even larger efficiency drop from the EPA rating. I've noticed this with the Air 20s/21s as well. The majority of people who get decent efficiency on roadtrips in their Airs have the low rolling resistance 19s.

 

[hmp10]

One issue you might have going with the summer tires is that even though the EPA rating is x% lower...it's still done using a conservative drive cycle. Going 75 or 80 or faster will cause an even larger efficiency drop from the EPA rating. I've noticed this with the Air 20s/21s as well. The majority of people who get decent efficiency on roadtrips in their Airs have the low rolling resistance 19s.

I understand that aerodynamic drag is the biggest range eater at high speeds, and that the drag increases exponentially with speed. When driving our Air at sustained 80mph speeds on trips, we get about 78-79% of EPA range in dry, temperate weather, which I attribute mostly to the increase of aerodynamic drag at that speed.

What I have been curious about is whether the Gravity will see further reduction than the Air in its EPA range at highway speeds due both to its higher Cd and its greater frontal area. If the Gravity holds at the 78-79% we see in the Air, then I'm fine with the 386-mile range with the largest wheels and summer tires, as that will still give us the 220-240 miles we like to go between charging stops while using no more than 75-80% of the battery capacity (to allow for unexpected issues such as traffic or malfunctioning charge stations).

Even if aerodynamic drag becomes a bigger factor in range reduction in the Gravity, I'm hoping that the more conservative EPA protocols under which it was tested compared to the Air which was tested under the old protocols will offset that to some extent.

There are so many variables at play here that we won't really know the answer until we see some range tests from Kyle Conner, Tom Moloughney, Car & Driver (which does 75mph tests), et al.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

I was looking for information about the SIDEWALL of the tires... I'm looking to see the tallest sidewall, because the highways in Pennsylvania are all so full of holes, pits, cracks, and are constantly under construction and being resurfaced.

To me "Stealth" has a sinister connotation. I guess for lucid it means "cheap", the opposite of platinum.

 

[hmp10]

I was looking for information about the SIDEWALL of the tires... I'm looking to see the tallest sidewall, because the highways in Pennsylvania are all so full of holes, pits, cracks, and are constantly under construction and being resurfaced.

Since the tread widths are the same across all the wheel options (265mm front / 285mm rear), the aspect ratios accurately indicate the relative sidewall heights between the wheel choices, with the sidewalls on the 20/21" wheels being the tallest:

Small-size wheels: 5.22" front / 5.05" rear

Mid-size wheels: 4.69" front / 4.49" rear

Large-size wheels: 4.17" front / 3.93" rear

The differences are not as pronounced as you might think, though . . . about a half-inch for every step change in wheel size. Looked at another way, the sidewalls of the lowest-profile tire are still over 75% the height of the highest-profile tire. Although, to a hungry pothole, the difference might really matter.

 

[momo3605]

I guess for lucid it means "cheap", the opposite of platinum.

It's interesting that Platinum is standard on Air, and Stealth is more expensive. But on Gravity, Stealth is standard and Platinum costs more money.