Out of Spec - Gravity vs Escalade

[AirDoll]

A sizeable minority on the Facebook Lucid Owners Group are whinging about the Gravity’s looks, talking about “it looks too much like a minivan!” A few are threatening to cancel their order.

If the Gravity fails, it will just be another indication that enough American drivers place a higher premium on looks than on driving dynamics.

I’m an admin in that group, and I can almost guarantee you those threatening to “cancel their order” do not have an order placed. They are online trolls.

 

[hmp10]

Related to point #2, it will be interesting to see how the new rule proposed by the NHTSA to protect pedestrians on plays out.

It will also be interesting to see how much of -- or even if -- NHTSA survives the Musk/DOGE attempt to shut it down.

 

[WeighingGravity]

Out of Spec may be giving a rundown on Gravity vs Escalade:


View attachment 25962

Does this not represent amazing news that Lucid has shipped a few review models? Or am I misinterpreting?

 

[Knucklehead]

Leaving environmental discussions out of it, I just don't get these gargantuan vehicles.

- If you need maximum cargo or passenger space, minivans offer more. And they bring the added advantages of better handling, easier ingress and egress, and lower fuel costs.

- Recent data show a correlation between the growing size of pickups and SUVs and the number of injuries and deaths of children in driveways.

- Their truck-based platforms make a controlled, compliant ride very difficult to attain and require suspension engineering that negatively impacts handling.

- Their weight works against every element of vehicle dynamics: acceleration, braking, lateral grip, transient maneuvers.

- They are difficult to park and make parking difficult for adjacent vehicles.

- They block the road and traffic views of other drivers on par with many commercial vehicles.

I can't think of another vehicle class that exacts so much cost from owners (and from other drivers on the road) to confer so little benefit.

Minivans are ugly and SUVs look cool.

A big SUV means sitting up high and having a better view of the traffic in front and around you.

And you can drive over stuff.

 

[hmp10]

Minivans are ugly and SUVs look cool.

An overly broad and subjective view. I think something like a Porsche Cayenne and a Rivian R1S does look cool. But I think the gargantuan products from Ford, GM, Infiniti, and their ilk actually look ridiculous. In fact, the frequent sight in real life of a petite woman (usually a blond for some reason) driving away from a Starbucks window in her Escalade or Infiniti QX80 looks just as silly as the cartoons of little old ladies with only their sun hats visible above the steering wheel.

A big SUV means sitting up high and having a better view of the traffic in front and around you.

While blocking the views of other drivers. And that higher view comes with greater weight on a higher center of gravity, meaning degraded braking distances and maneuvering ability. Of course, I guess it's nice to have a better view of what you're about to plow into. All these kinds of vehicles telegraph to me is self-absorption.

And you can drive over stuff.

Such as children in the driveway. An average of 110 children a week in the U.S. are killed or injured by backover and frontover accidents, and the growth of that number is correlated to the growth of vehicle sizes in the U.S. (Interestingly, the highest incidence of these accidents is in Texas.)

 

[Sam6062]

Those same Texans driving at break-neck speeds on side roads in their pickups in Snow and Ice

 

[msaunders9430]

Minivans are ugly and SUVs look cool.

A big SUV means sitting up high and having a better view of the traffic in front and around you.

And you can drive over stuff.

Exactly.
Especially if I'm running late.

 

[msaunders9430]

Does this not represent amazing news that Lucid has shipped a few review models? Or am I misinterpreting?

Hmmm. He says at the 1:04:00 mark that the Gravity he has is not a "series production model" .

 

[hmp10]

I'm curious why people who are fans of huge SUVs and don't indicate they own Lucids would be on a site about a car brand that is the determined antithesis of everything such vehicles represent.

Thinking about giving up your sinful ways?

 

[msaunders9430]

Exactly.
Especially if I'm running late.

Just to be clear, I'm being facetious.
Forgot my

 

[flarbear]

And every time I see a poorly designed EV I keep hearing echoes of "my friend had an EV and here is the unconscionable problem with it and why I'll never even think of owning one" comments I've heard over the years. If the Escalade is expensive to recharge then people in that segment will think that all EVs are expensive to charge. If it has even poorer real world range than most EVs then they will think that all EVs get only half of their claimed range.

 

[Knucklehead]

I'm curious why people who are fans of huge SUVs and don't indicate they own Lucids would be on a site about a car brand that is the determined antithesis of everything such vehicles represent.

Thinking about giving up your sinful ways?

The list of top priority features in my new BEV is the following:

1. Range. I am looking for the longest highway range possible so I can avoid public charging.
2. A tow hitch. I put one on my Mach-e for bike rack use. If I could get a hitch installed on a Air I might go that route due to the number one priority above. I don't tow things with my Mach-e but if I got a vehicle that is built to tow I would.
3. Native NACS. This is much less important than the first two, but having it is a huge deal to me.
4. The ability to haul a 4x8 sheet of drywall. Just kidding.

I am seriously considering the Rivian R1 but the OOS range test they did with the Cybertruck was hugely disappointing. The Max T went 260 miles. It was cold and they had some snow during the test, but still. That is what I can expect in the winter here. I am really, really hoping the Gravity does much better on the highway. Common sense says it will.

I like to drive over stuff but I also want it to fit into my garage. If the longest range GMs could fit in my garage, they would be on the table. Well except the Escalade. It is way too expensive for what you get. IMO.

And yes, looks are subjective. You seem to look at vehicles as more of a utility than I do. I want something that is fun and looks good. That will never be a Odyssey. Ever. Even if it can hold a full sheet of drywall.

 

[Elfin]

The list of top priority features in my new BEV is the following:

1. Range. I am looking for the longest highway range possible so I can avoid public charging.
2. A tow hitch. I put one on my Mach-e for bike rack use. If I could get a hitch installed on a Air I might go that route due to the number one priority above. I don't tow things with my Mach-e but if I got a vehicle that is built to tow I would.
3. Native NACS. This is much less important than the first two, but having it is a huge deal to me.
4. The ability to haul a 4x8 sheet of drywall. Just kidding.

I am seriously considering the Rivian R1 but the OOS range test they did with the Cybertruck was hugely disappointing. The Max T went 260 miles. It was cold and they had some snow during the test, but still. That is what I can expect in the winter here. I am really, really hoping the Gravity does much better on the highway. Common sense says it will.

I like to drive over stuff but I also want it to fit into my garage. If the longest range GMs could fit in my garage, they would be on the table. Well except the Escalade. It is way too expensive for what you get. IMO.

And yes, looks are subjective. You seem to look at vehicles as more of a utility than I do. I want something that is fun and looks good. That will never be a Odyssey. Ever. Even if it can hold a full sheet of drywall.

Needs NACS with decent charging speed on V3 superchargers (somehow this spec is still secret.)
I've got a tow hitch bike rack on my Model 3 and I think it drops the highway range by about a third (with a bike on it of course.) Hopefully the wagon shape of Gravity will do better.
I considered a Rivian but the charge speed is very slow relative to the power consumption. Hopefully the Gravity charges a bit faster than the Air and can get 150+ miles at 80mph with 15 minutes of charging (OOS 10% challenge.)

 

[hmp10]

The list of top priority features in my new BEV is the following:

1. Range. I am looking for the longest highway range possible so I can avoid public charging . . . .

I am seriously considering the Rivian R1 but the OOS range test they did with the Cybertruck was hugely disappointing. The Max T went 260 miles. It was cold and they had some snow during the test, but still. That is what I can expect in the winter here. I am really, really hoping the Gravity does much better on the highway. Common sense says it will.

I'm pretty sure the Gravity will give you longest highway range you'll see from any 3-row vehicle, no matter what any of their EPA ratings are. However, I'm also pretty sure that will fall something short of the EPA range. I'm also a bit worried that the Gravity might even fall shorter than the Air's percentage of EPA range attained on the highway due to its combination of higher Cd plus greater frontal area, as aerodynamics become the biggest range eater at speed. (That's why I've been so obsessed in my tire search as I seek a high-performance alternative to the Hankooks for the smaller wheels.) I'm really hoping the EPA's new testing protocols will close some of the gap.

I like to drive over stuff but I also want it to fit into my garage. If the longest range GMs could fit in my garage, they would be on the table. Well except the Escalade. It is way too expensive for what you get. IMO.

It will be interesting to see what the real-world road-tripping range turns out to be in the Escalade and its siblings. Although Conner acknowledged there was a good bit of idling time involved due to filming, he was still astonished by the abysmal efficiency average he got during his 108-mile drive: 0.7 m/kWh. That's only 30% of its EPA range. Idling consumes relatively little energy in an EV unless the HVAC and battery management systems are running full tilt, and he was in mild San Jose weather. That implies that the Escalade's real-world range could perhaps come in not much better than 200 miles. Shades of the ID.Buzz?

And yes, looks are subjective. You seem to look at vehicles as more of a utility than I do. I want something that is fun and looks good. That will never be a Odyssey. Ever. Even if it can hold a full sheet of drywall.

I, too, want something fun and that looks good. That's why over the years I've owned a Miata, an RX7 Turbo, three Audi R8s, a Corvette, an Audi S6, a Mercedes SL55AMG, a Mercedes McLaren SLR, a Lucid Air Dream Performance, etc. And it's why I'm chomping at the bit to get my hands on a Gravity. As Kyle Conner repeated in the Escalade video and as Jason Cammisa reported after driving the Gravity, it's a vehicle that handles literally like a sports car (Conner) and that could actually make the sports car category obsolete (Cammisa).

And, having seen one three times in person, I think it looks pretty damn good, to boot.

 

[borski]

However, I'm also pretty sure that will fall something short of the EPA range. I'm also a bit worried that the Gravity might even fall shorter than the Air's percentage of EPA range attained on the highway due to its combination of higher Cd plus greater frontal area, as aerodynamics become the biggest range eater at speed.

Maybe. I’m reserving judgment because of the massive efficiency wins apparently in the 2025 Airs. Between that and the new EPA ratings, I have no idea how to predict that.

 

[Elfin]

I'm pretty sure the Gravity will give you longest highway range you'll see from any 3-row vehicle, no matter what any of their EPA ratings are. However, I'm also pretty sure that will fall something short of the EPA range. I'm also a bit worried that the Gravity might even fall shorter than the Air's percentage of EPA range attained on the highway due to its combination of higher Cd plus greater frontal area, as aerodynamics become the biggest range eater at speed. (That's why I've been so obsessed in my tire search as I seek a high-performance alternative to the Hankooks for the smaller wheels.) I'm really hoping the EPA's new testing protocols will close some of the gap.

Yep. 20% higher Cd (.24 vs. .20) and 20% more frontal area (65" vs. 55.4" Height) means 45% more drag for the Gravity vs. Air. I bet "Out of Spec" 70mph range will be 400mi which means real world interstate range is closer to 300mi (75mph, discharge to 10%, first year battery degradation)
I agree it will be the longest range 3 row EV.

 

[Knucklehead]

Needs NACS with decent charging speed on V3 superchargers (somehow this spec is still secret.)
I've got a tow hitch bike rack on my Model 3 and I think it drops the highway range by about a third (with a bike on it of course.) Hopefully the wagon shape of Gravity will do better.
I considered a Rivian but the charge speed is very slow relative to the power consumption. Hopefully the Gravity charges a bit faster than the Air and can get 150+ miles at 80mph with 15 minutes of charging (OOS 10% challenge.)

Charging speed is another big deal. The R1 isn't great and right now there are L2 charging speed issues. Really, if Rivian cannot fix the L2 charging speed issue, I think I cannot get one. In some Gen2 trucks L2 is slowing so much as it goes over 80% that I don't know if I can fully charge it overnight. Totally unacceptable, IMO.

I really, really hope Lucid has fixed the 400V charging speed issue with Gravity. As you point out, they claim they have, but what is the speed at 400V? 150 kW? 200 kW? I doubt it will be higher than 200. My guess it will top out at around 150 kW.

 

[Knucklehead]

Yep. 20% higher Cd (.24 vs. .20) and 20% more frontal area (65" vs. 55.4" Height) means 45% more drag for the Gravity vs. Air. I bet "Out of Spec" 70mph range will be 400mi which means real world interstate range is closer to 300mi (75mph, discharge to 10%, first year battery degradation)
I agree it will be the longest range 3 row EV.

I am hoping for 340 or better at 75 mph.

 

[WeighingGravity]

Hmmm. He says at the 1:04:00 mark that the Gravity he has is not a "series production model" .

Yeah, in hindsight and after looking at his actual twitter account, I think he just drove by the Lucid factory while he had the Escalade for review and took some comparison shots and maybe hung out in the parking lot. I don't think he has one in his possession yet.

which is a "damn, that sucks" moment for me.

 

[HC_79]

Yeah, in hindsight and after looking at his actual twitter account, I think he just drove by the Lucid factory while he had the Escalade for review and took some comparison shots and maybe hung out in the parking lot. I don't think he has one in his possession yet.

which is a "damn, that sucks" moment for me.

It’s the same one he reviewed the other week at Lucid HQ. I don’t believe any of the final production cars have made it into reviewers/press hands yet