NACS Charging at Tesla SCs

[hmp10]

Too bad the Tesla SCs are usually the most expensive option ( for non Teslas)

You get a significant fee reduction (around 25-30%, depending on location) if you have a $11.99 monthly subscription for Tesla Supercharging. However, you can't yet use it with plug-and-charge, although Lucid says they are working on that. All you have to do is initiate the charging session through the Tesla app, though, and it's actually pretty quick and easy.

It doesn't take much road tripping for the subscription to pay for itself. Frankly, though, I'd pay double the rate to use a Tesla SC over an EA charger, simply because I want to be able to know I'll actually be able to charge when I arrive at the station.

 

[dbsb3233]

Too bad the Tesla SCs are usually the most expensive option ( for non Teslas)

Depends on where. Some places SCs are cheaper than the alternatives, sometimes more.

Price is always a consideration in anything, of course. But in the grand scheme of things, it's usually not the biggest factor for DCFC. Most people only DCFC on roads trips, and most only do them a couple of times per year (with 90%+ of their charges at home). There are exceptions (like me where 80% of my miles are road trips), but most people can count their annual DCFC charges on both hands.

Location and convenience usually mean more than a modest price difference. When choosing the next DCFC stop on a day's drive, probably less than half even look at the price before plugging in.

 

[dbsb3233]

You get a significant fee reduction (around 25-30%, depending on location) if you have a $11.99 monthly subscription for Tesla Supercharging. However, you can't yet use it with plug-and-charge, although Lucid says they are working on that. All you have to do is initiate the charging session through the Tesla app, though, and it's actually pretty quick and easy.

It doesn't take much road tripping for the subscription to pay for itself. Frankly, though, I'd pay double the rate to use a Tesla SC over an EA charger, simply because I want to be able to know I'll actually be able to charge when I arrive at the station.

And for both SC and EA, you can easily activate the subscription for just that trip (one month). Activate the subscription, then immediately cancel it. You'll pay the one month ($7 for EA, $11.99 for SC) and get 30 days of the (roughly 25%) discount, and it will automatically terminate after 30 days. Easy-peasy. The break-even point is usually 2-3 charges in that 30 days.

One downside though is you kinda feel locked in to using only that network on a trip. Sometimes the other network would actually be easier for a particular stop but we'll still stick with the one we payed the discount for "just because".

 

[hmp10]

And for both SC and EA, you can easily activate the subscription for just that trip (one month). Activate the subscription, then immediately cancel it. You'll pay the one month ($7 for EA, $11.99 for SC) and get 30 days of the (roughly 25%) discount, and it will automatically terminate after 30 days. Easy-peasy. The break-even point is usually 2-3 charges in that 30 days.

One downside though is you kinda feel locked in to using only that network on a trip. Sometimes the other network would actually be easier for a particular stop but we'll still stick with the one we payed the discount for "just because".

The only downside I have experienced in almost four years of road tripping in a Lucid was the challenge of the CCS charging infrastructure, particularly with Electrify America's dismal service in the southeastern U.S. (People out west seem to have had fewer issues.)

After nine years of owning Teslas, the only regret I had in walking away from the brand was the loss of Supercharger access. With our Gravity (and even with the slower charge rate of the Air at Superchargers), that one downside has evaporated.

Long before Elon Musk went off the deep end I had become disillusioned with some of Tesla's business practices and design choices, but the Supercharger network remained the class act in the industry. Give the devil his due.

 

[jrreno]

Depends on where. Some places SCs are cheaper than the alternatives, sometimes more.

Price is always a consideration in anything, of course. But in the grand scheme of things, it's usually not the biggest factor for DCFC. Most people only DCFC on roads trips, and most only do them a couple of times per year (with 90%+ of their charges at home). There are exceptions (like me where 80% of my miles are road trips), but most people can count their annual DCFC charges on both hands.

Location and convenience usually mean more than a modest price difference. When choosing the next DCFC stop on a day's drive, probably less than half even look at the price before plugging in.

The only downside I have experienced in almost four years of road tripping in a Lucid was the challenge of the CCS charging infrastructure, particularly with Electrify America's dismal service in the southeastern U.S. (People out west seem to have had fewer issues.)

After nine years of owning Teslas, the only regret I had in walking away from the brand was the loss of Supercharger access. With our Gravity (and even with the slower charge rate of the Air at Superchargers), that one downside has evaporated.

Long before Elon Musk went off the deep end I had become disillusioned with some of Tesla's business practices and design choices, but the Supercharger network remained the class act in the industry. Give the devil his due.

I have to agree on all the points you’ve made. I have been spoiled because our 2018 MS came with free supercharging. We have 152,000 miles on it, most of the highway miles. As you and dbsb have stated price is far from the most important factor when doing some serious road tripping. I have never worried about where my next refueling was coming from. The Tesla SC infrastructure was the deciding factor when we purchased our first Tesla, a 2014 MS.
I started distancing us from Tesla when the petulant child fired the entire SC team. Unfortunately we also have Tesla powerwalls which are also very well engineered and are serving us well. I actually am torn between the exceptional engineering teams at Tesla and the CEO that takes all the credit for their hard work.
I am looking forward to putting many highway miles on our new Gravity. Our SA says he thinks end of October. Hoping it arrives soon!

 

[jedwin]

Incredibly easy charging at two Tesla SCs this weekend. Amazed how easy plug and charge

I also had a very easy first SC test using the Lucid adapter. Functionally, everything was happening the way it was supposed to… However, my Lucid app was stuck on the “authorizing“ screen, which precluded me from stopping the charging there, and I was able to readily cancel the charging session from the pilot panel inside the car. (I was just testing the system, and didn’t want to charge for long.)

At first, I did wonder whether the charging had started, but again once I looked inside, I could see that all was well, despite the app screen being stuck.

FWIW, a similar but slightly different glitch happened on a ChargePoint charger that I was testing: there, the ChargePoint app froze on a screen that said, I believe, “loading charging session“….. but again, charging was taking place just fine, and I could monitor and end the session from the pilot panel inside the car.

 

[dbsb3233]

The only downside I have experienced in almost four years of road tripping in a Lucid was the challenge of the CCS charging infrastructure, particularly with Electrify America's dismal service in the southeastern U.S. (People out west seem to have had fewer issues.)

After nine years of owning Teslas, the only regret I had in walking away from the brand was the loss of Supercharger access. With our Gravity (and even with the slower charge rate of the Air at Superchargers), that one downside has evaporated.

Long before Elon Musk went off the deep end I had become disillusioned with some of Tesla's business practices and design choices, but the Supercharger network remained the class act in the industry. Give the devil his due.

We've had access to SCs in our Mach-E for a few years now. We still mostly used EA though because there's so many V2 stations that are worthless to us, especially in my region of the country (WY, UT, SD, NV, CO, etc). WY, for instance, has a total of two CCS-capable SCs in the whole state. SD just one. Until recently I-80 had none for 1100 miles between North Platte NE and Fernley NV (other than Salt Lake City). They just recently added 2 in NV, but there's still zero on I-80 for all of WY. I-70 in UT was similar, until this week when they finally upgraded the Green River station. Just too many long gaps. But it's gradually filling in.

For the next 9 months we'll still use EA because we're driving our new Macan that has a year of free EA. But after that the Gravity takes over. Ionna will be a significant part of that mix since the Fruita CO and Beaver UT stations should be perfectly placed between Denver & Vegas (our most frequent route). Now we just need someone to put a CCS-capable station on US-95 between Vegas and Reno. There's only SC V2s there.

 

[dbsb3233]

Speaking of Ionna, for anyone road tripping this weekend...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1961111669389541647

 

[hmp10]

We've had access to SCs in our Mach-E for a few years now. We still mostly used EA though because there's so many V2 stations that are worthless to us, especially in my region of the country (WY, UT, SD, NV, CO, etc). WY, for instance, has a total of two CCS-capable SCs in the whole state. SD just one. Until recently I-80 had none for 1100 miles between North Platte NE and Fernley NV (other than Salt Lake City). They just recently added 2 in NV, but there's still zero on I-80 for all of WY. I-70 in UT was similar, until this week when they finally upgraded the Green River station. Just too many long gaps. But it's gradually filling in.

For the next 9 months we'll still use EA because we're driving our new Macan that has a year of free EA. But after that the Gravity takes over. Ionna will be a significant part of that mix since the Fruita CO and Beaver UT stations should be perfectly placed between Denver & Vegas (our most frequent route). Now we just need someone to put a CCS-capable station on US-95 between Vegas and Reno. There's only SC V2s there.

Yep, I've noticed that on Tesla SC maps. We're thinking about a cross-country drive -- the northern route in one direction and the southern route in the other -- and I was surprised how many SC spots dropped off the map when I turned on the "NACS-partner" filter, particularly in the upper mountain states.

I have serious doubts about venturing into an area more dependent on CCS infrastructure where the charging options are few and far between in case you have to find an alternate to a malfunctioning CCS station. (While I've had better luck with ChargePoint than Electrify America over the past few years, it's still not up to SC snuff.)

 

[dbsb3233]

Yep, I've noticed that on Tesla SC maps. We're thinking about a cross-country drive -- the northern route in one direction and the southern route in the other -- and I was surprised how many SC spots dropped off the map when I turned on the "NACS-partner" filter, particularly in the upper mountain states.

I have serious doubts about venturing into an area more dependent on CCS infrastructure where the charging options are few and far between in case you have to find an alternate to a malfunctioning CCS station. (While I've had better luck with ChargePoint than Electrify America over the past few years, it's still not up to SC snuff.)

The good news is EA covers most routes pretty well. And with Lucid's super range, you should easily be able to stay in range of multiple stations. My general rule of thumb is to aim for the 2nd-to-last DCFC anyway, and just routinely charge up to the 80-85% area minimum.

I always hated the do-or-die "only charge enough to arrive at the next station at 10%" approach. Too much unnecessary risk and consternation.

 

[hmp10]

The good news is EA covers most routes pretty well.

The bad news is that the last two EA stations we tried were out of service (Sarasota and Naples, FL). And EA stations being partially inoperable (with lines waiting for the one or two charge posts that were working) or being completely off-line has been most of our experience with EA since 2022. I can't count the number of drivers I've seen pull up to an EA charge post, plug in and stare while nothing happens, pull out their credit cards for several tries, then get out their cell phones to use the app or to call someone (presumably EA), and then get back in their cars and drive off with no charge.

And every time I thought of how many retellings of each of these episodes would become fodder for an argument that EVs are not ready for prime time. I've said it before: that company has done more to damage the reputation of EV transport than any other EV-related enterprise.

And Lucid did not help itself by becoming so closely associated with EA from the launch of the Air. Thank God they moved to NACS for the Gravity.

 

[dbsb3233]

The bad news is that the last two EA stations we tried were out of service (Sarasota and Naples, FL). And EA stations being partially inoperable (with lines waiting for the one or two charge posts that were working) or being completely off-line has been most of our experience with EA since 2022. I can't count the number of drivers I've seen pull up to an EA charge post, plug in and stare while nothing happens, pull out their credit cards for several tries, then get out their cell phones to use the app or to call someone (presumably EA), and then get back in their cars and drive off with no charge.

And every time I thought of how many retellings of each of these episodes would become fodder for an argument that EVs are not ready for prime time. I've said it before: that company has done more to damage the reputation of EV transport than any other EV-related enterprise.

And Lucid did not help itself by becoming so closely associated with EA from the launch of the Air. Thank God they moved to NACS for the Gravity.

We've used EA in 40 states and I don't recall ever running into an entire station that's been inoperable. Maybe once in 300+ sessions. I do remember they did that emergency shutdown along I-90 years ago though, that caught a lot of people off guard. No doubt that turned some people off to CCS EVs as not being ready for prime time (and they wouldn't be entirely wrong).

For us, it's just the opposite though. If it weren't for EA, we never would have bought an EV 5 years ago. Or 3 years ago. Or even today. I still don't like any model that Tesla makes. And the SC network just doesn't cover enough for CCS EVs (at least in my 1/3rd of the country). And as messy as EA can be at times, it's coverage is 10x better than any other CCS network.

Yes, many newbies just stand there with no clue how to DCFC. Sometimes that's because of an EA issue, sometimes it's the car, and somtimes it's because they simply don't know how to do it. I'm helping newbies at stations frequently that are pretty clueless about it all. It really shows how poor the state of EV education is. There's absolutely a learning curve, that many buyers/renters are simply unaware of.

EA definitely has frequent hardware failures, and that's still frustrating. There's usually 1, sometimes 2, broken or de-rated chargers at nearly every station. We quickly learned to get used to that and expect it. And got used to moving over to the next charger at probably every third stop. Just part of the routine. Redundancy is EA's saving grace (4+ chargers at every station, unlike other (non-Tesla) stations that commonly have just 1 or 2 chargers). That's allowed us to still get a charge at nearly every EA station we've used. But I could see a day coming where there's just too many EVs on the roads for EA to handle. Only 3 of 4 chargers working is fine when there's only 1-2 cars there trying to use the station. But it's a problem when 4 show up at the same time. That's why their problems are magnified in CA, and based on your experience, apparently FL too.

 

[hmp10]

We've used EA in 40 states and I don't recall ever running into an entire station that's been inoperable.

We've had it happen in Charleston, SC, in Pooler, GA (outside Savannah), and in the two I mentioned today. In nine years of driving Teslas, we never came up on a station that was completely out service.

There's usually 1, sometimes 2, broken or de-rated chargers at nearly every station. We quickly learned to get used to that and expect it.

This is far and away the more common situation. But what you're getting used to is often waiting in line and not being able to leave your car to eat or use the bathroom lest you miss the next space to open up. This, in turn, has turned countless EA charge stops into events lasting well over an hour. The fact that you have to expect it is the very reason that CCS charging has turned off so many potential buyers.

And the fact that you have to expect it at the next station, too, is the reason you don't want to leave the current station without a full charge so that you can minimize the number of stops you have to make on a road trip -- which means you're going to be using the one or two working chargers for much longer than if you could drive off with an 80% charge. Plus you need the extra margin should you have to find an alternative to the next planned stop when you arrive.

 

[dbsb3233]

We've had it happen in Charleston, SC, in Pooler, GA (outside Savannah), and in the two I mentioned today. In nine years of driving Teslas, we never came up on a station that was completely out service.



This is far and away the more common situation. But what you're getting used to is often waiting in line and not being able to leave your car to eat or use the bathroom lest you miss the next space to open up. This, in turn, has turned countless EA charge stops into events lasting well over an hour. The fact that you have to expect it is the very reason that CCS charging has turned off so many potential buyers.

And the fact that you have to expect it at the next station, too, is the reason you don't want to leave the current station without a full charge so that you can minimize the number of stops you have to make on a road trip -- which means you're going to be using the one or two working chargers for much longer than if you could drive off with an 80% charge. Plus you need the extra margin should you have to find an alternative to the next planned stop when you arrive.

Yes, if you're in locations that frequently have full stations, that's where it's a bigger problem. That's rarely ever the case for us though. Being retired, we usually don't hit the road on Friday evenings (peak travel). 90% of the time for us there's multiple open chargers where it's easy to move over. But if most of our road trips were on I-5, or I-95, it would probably be a different matter. WAY more EVs on the roads there.

It probably wouldn't be a ton better there even if EA had all chargers working all the time, because you're mostly describing a capacity problem. While EA usually has 4 chargers at most stations, I tend to think of them as 3-charger stations. If there's so many EVs in the area that 3 isn't enough, there's a pretty good chance that 4 would frequent see bottlenecks too. SCs are more dependable (although they do break too), but their real value is in having larger stations with far more redundancy. A 2-charger Chargepoint station is tenuous to count on. A 3(working)-charger EA is better but still not great. An 8 or 12-charger SC is simply way better. It's mostly about capacity and redundancy.

Each network has it's plusses and minuses. For dependability and station size, SC is much better. But for coverage for CCS cars, EA is much better.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

EA on East Coast also has far inferior locations at the edge of Walmart parking lots, most frequently. EA is a last resort for me - always. But that’s also because my EV journey began with Tesla 12 years ago, so I was “raised” on SCs.

FWIW. Tesla SCs are great, but the last two I went to with my Gravity, I got throttled to about 160kw. Not sure why, but it said power limited by station.

 

[dbsb3233]

EA on East Coast also has far inferior locations at the edge of Walmart parking lots, most frequently. EA is a last resort for me - always. But that’s also because my EV journey began with Tesla 12 years ago, so I was “raised” on SCs.

FWIW. Tesla SCs are great, but the last two I went to with my Gravity, I got throttled to about 160kw. Not sure why, but it said power limited by station.

What's the max power the Gravity is supposed to get from a 400v charger? I can't remember how much the car steps it up but yeah, I think it's still well short of what an 800v charger can do.

I completely get the different perspective of previous Tesla owners regarding EA vs what they were used to with SC. 8-12 chargers at every station would be fantastic. I've always been a CCS driver so for me, EA is a godsend (warts and all), because the alternatives were usually far worse and coverage trumps anything else. Doesn't matter how great a network is if it doesn't exist where you need to use it. And SC just has too many incompatible V2s for me to make it my #1. 400v is a drawback too but far less important than coverage.

Personally I love that EA is often at Walmarts (bathrooms, shopping at good prices, restaurants around it). But yeah, sometimes they're a mile or two off the interstate. SCs are often closer.

 

[DeaneG]

What's the max power the Gravity is supposed to get from a 400v charger? ...I completely get the different perspective of previous Tesla owners regarding EA vs what they were used to with SC...

About 225kW, sustained a long way into the charge.
I started out on janky1 or 2-stall Chademo stations for my first two EVs, then jumped to Superchargers for 2018-2021. Plentiful, easy, and "just worked", night and day better.
Then dropped back down to janky 4-stall EA stations for our fourth and fifth EVs until just the past few months. Being able to charge using reliable, plentiful superchargers again has been a real relief.

 

[hmp10]

FWIW. Tesla SCs are great, but the last two I went to with my Gravity, I got throttled to about 160kw. Not sure why, but it said power limited by station.

It happened to us on one of our SC stops in the Gravity. But compared to a non-working EA charger or having to wait in line to get the only one that does work, 160kw is like manna from heaven.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

About 225kW, sustained a long way into the charge.
I started out on janky1 or 2-stall Chademo stations for my first two EVs, then jumped to Superchargers for 2018-2021. Plentiful, easy, and "just worked", night and day better.
Then dropped back down to janky 4-stall EA stations for our fourth and fifth EVs until just the past few months. Being able to charge using reliable, plentiful superchargers again has been a real relief.

It DOES sustain 200-225kw DEEP into the pack. It’s a roadtripping BEAST!

 

[Tâm]

This discussion today made me decide to see if EA plug-and-charge works in our Gravity. We had tried about two weeks ago at an EA station in Sarasota, FL but found the entire station shut down for equipment replacement. Today we went to an EA station at a Walmart in Naples, the only EA chargers anywhere near us.

There were four charge spots. One had a piece of yellow police tape across it as well as a blank screen. Two other spots had blank screens, one of which we tried to no avail. There was a Kia charging at the last remaining spot. When it pulled off we pulled in and plugged in. We got a message that charging was being initiated, followed by a message that charging was interrupted. We tried again. Same result.

So I went into the Lucid app to initiate the charge there. The Lucid app showed charging was being initiated but quickly switched to a red message saying charging required either a credit card at the site or through the EA app. We tried swiping a credit card at the charge post, but it did not work. I called Lucid Customer Care for assistance. They tried but were unable to initiate charging. The service advisor said he was going to check with the charge team and text or call me with what he found out but that there was no point in waiting at the charger. About 15 minutes later he texted me that the EA station was not working.

I'm wondering if, with NACS coming to most EV brands, Electrify America is just quietly throwing in the towel and not even trying to keep their system operating. About all it ever really did well was keep VW execs out of jail for Dieselgate.

I don't think NACS is the reason. It's just how EA works before, during, and after NACS.

I went to a CCS1 EA station on Thursday that still had a status on the app as "available" on 2 while all the rest were occupied. I plugged in and they didn't work for my CCS1 Air.

I got back in line waiting and saw another driver from a different car brand cut the line and unsuccessfully used those 2 "available" stalls. The poor driver spent quite a long time on the phone to troubleshoot the issues for each one and then gave up and got back to the waiting line.

It's a complete waste of time in this case to report to EA because the false "available" status didn't change.