Lease return excess wear & tear

i can understand all of you who say you've tired of this or don't support me continuing to make a fuss about this. I'm living it, you're not and you all say you'd handle it differently. I doubt some of that is true if it really were you, but i get your tedium from my posts.

I'll stop posting here... which is what Lucid wants and enough of you want as well. Does me no good to keep expressing my feelings here, so i'm starting to agree. :)

Best to those who still face their lease turn in process... and best to the many good people here (even some who are getting called fanboi!) who taught me so much about the car and the ownership experience... on countless other threads and topics. it has been invaluable.
-joshg out (on this topic at least!)
 
i'll never understand grown ass people getting all up worked up in their feels about an email's choice of words when the resolution resulted in them coming out on top. lucid's email responses were cold, boilerplate, and legally cautious, but not even close to disrespectful. just because the "tone" wasn't as pampering and white glove as what the lessees wanted, they preceived it as a slight.

what word should they have used or chosen? if lucid had used the preferred choice of word, what would be the implications? once leaked, would that unofficially bind them to new standards or precedent that may backfire and legally complicate things? all so some lessees can feel "respected" before lucid can came out with an official statement and reworked policy?

at the end of the day, we don't know the exact lease return agreement between lucid and BoA, but clearly BoA is handling it in a way that's not the industry norm, and lucid has little say or any part of. with lucid's recent statement, we know that they are now working with BoA to rework things. if there is a reworked lease return agreement, and until it's finalized, the early adopters most likely will have to suck it up and be at the whims of BoA, while hoping lucid will review their lease case by case to provide exemptions.
Words do matter. Whether it's international relations or corporate releases. Ill chosen words can cause all sorts of unintended consequences to which we are now witnessing. Just because you do not understand this, does not mean that all is well and people who were affected should just shut up and accept it.
 
In my opinion, the way Josh was treated and ghosted, he deserves a diamond crusted apology. It's not the $200. It's the way Lucid ignored his concerns and the way he was treated when he appealed to upper management. He only got results when the mainstream media got a hold of his story. If not for that, he would still be in collection.
Josh got the “diamond-crusted” apology he asked for. And I think exactly the most any publicly traded company can do when a customer is hell-bent on going to the press. Lucid can’t rewrite every contract or promise blanket concessions to the entire lessee base, especially as we don't and couldn't know the nuances of the inner workings of LFS, BofA, and Lucid.

Bottom line: Josh asked for relief, he got it and then some. Lucid Financial waived the $450 lease-termination fee. And they reversed the $200 invoice in full. I'd say that is an amazing result.
 
I understand what you are saying, even though I disagree with it. I am very concerned about Lucid's viability as a company. The stock is in the 2 range which speaks for itself concerning its present and possible future existence. Pretty much everyone agrees that a successful roll out of a mid priced (50K+) entry is essential for the company to survive. My Lucid is overall a superb automobile( even with some needed improvements). I want this company to be successful. but it seems to me that Lucid is doing everything in its power to piss off its owners, and discredit itself with its corporate doublespeak which nobody believes. The fact this this has now gone mainstream in the press and the number of Lucid owners that have stated on this forum that they will never purchase a Lucid ever again, demonstrates (at least to me) that Lucid is doing the wrong approach. I don't doubt that you say that there are things you can's say if you are public, but the way Lucid has been approaching this problem is a disaster and is just turning off more people to the brand. Another PR person could not possibly do any worse than the present person who was responsible for its latest comments which just antagonized all those Lucid owners who have had to deal with BOFA. I want Lucid to do well, but sometimes reorganization is necessary when the current team or person is making things worse, instead of better.
It sounds like you think I'm disagreeing with you. I'm not. I'm a bit less vitriolic toward the PR because I do think it's legalspeak and not corporate doublespeak, but I don't disagree with you in general. You don't need to convince me that this isn't a good look and Lucid needs to fix it.

I'm less concerned about the long-term viability of the company, but that's a whole different matter.
 
I'm one of the people involved here, and I'm the one that got the "in the interest of goodwill, we are going to WAIVE that charge on your lease" response. That's not lawyer speak. it is 100% corporate doublespeak, and that's a generous label for it. It's pandering, it's condescending, and insulting, and implies they are not going to even say that they are reviewing how this happened or that it even appeared to be a mistake in my case.

I'd have walked away understanding the difficult position they're in, if not outright pleased with their response, if they just said "that appears to be an error and we are going to be reviewing this with our partner. The charges have been taken off your account and collections actions against you will be halted immediately with no impact on your credit rating and we're sorry you've been put through this."

They chose not to do any of that... Not the original exec at Lucid Financial, not the CEO, not the CMO (those two were copied on my email expressing disappointment in their response), and not the Lucid person that is here on this forum who promised me personally they would get back to me (but never did) with an answer to how Lucid would be addressing this.

They just wanted me to go away with my $200 reversed after all they put me through and thought I should be happy with that response. I'm not.
I hear what you're saying. Their response to you wasn't what I was referring to. I was referring to the response to the journalist, which was definitely legalspeak, imho.

I agree they shouldn't have phrased it that way to you.
 
i can understand all of you who say you've tired of this or don't support me continuing to make a fuss about this. I'm living it, you're not and you all say you'd handle it differently. I doubt some of that is true if it really were you, but i get your tedium from my posts.

I'll stop posting here... which is what Lucid wants and enough of you want as well. Does me no good to keep expressing my feelings here, so i'm starting to agree. :)

Best to those who still face their lease turn in process... and best to the many good people here (even some who are getting called fanboi!) who taught me so much about the car and the ownership experience... on countless other threads and topics. it has been invaluable.
-joshg out (on this topic at least!)
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't post; but since Lucid has said through multiple channels they're working to get this fixed for everyone (not just for you which what I believe you're fighting for and we all support that), I think it's fair to give them some time to see if they deliver or not. I know you love Lucid and want them to succeed; that's why you are trying to get them to fix something damaging their brand. I hope you stay with Lucid when all this is resolved; remember how many people you're helping with all the work you put into your case. 🤝🏾
 
This is pretty much the best we are going to get for now, and honestly I am satisfied with this response. It def took too long coming, but they got there eventually. My background is marketing/advertising/PR, and I know that the first line of defense is to apologize without admitting guilt. Once you take responsibility for a problem, the money seekers will follow you relentlessly--that's just the way it works in the US. I would bet you a lot of dough that there are some very tough discussions being held between Lucid and BoA. Who knows what kind of deal Lucid had to agree to to gain a leasing partner. Clearly Lucid had to agree to some less-than-advantageous agreements with suppliers at startup in order to produce a car.

I am encouraged by the steps Lucid has taken, and I think they will get this right eventually. I feel badly that so many Lucid leaseholders had to get steamrolled before action was taken.

If I were a C-suite Lucid exec, I would be reaching out to each of these early lease holders to make things right. Hell these were the people that took a huge risk buying a Lucid early on. Without them, Lucid wouldn't be around right now. Just my 2 cents. What would it cost Lucid to reimburse the guys who got screwed? $100,000? $200,000? That's peanuts compared to what is at stake here. And wouldn't that be a fantastic message to the Lucid base and the marketplace?
I could not agree with this whole post more.
 
Words do matter. Whether it's international relations or corporate releases. Ill chosen words can cause all sorts of unintended consequences to which we are now witnessing. Just because you do not understand this, does not mean that all is well and people who were affected should just shut up and accept it.
Actions speak louder than words. Lucid made @JoshG whole financially, what more can he ask for as an individual. Lucid itself isn't out of the woods on this yet, and has said its still working towards broader guidance and solutions. In this I believe them.

Apologies in writing in our litigious and tortious legal world are costly things. Perhaps if we lived in a kinder world the kind of apology Josh seeks would be rewarded and not taken advantage of...


(after all, the world is what we make of it)
 
Josh got the “diamond-crusted” apology he asked for. And I think exactly the most any publicly traded company can do when a customer is hell-bent on going to the press. Lucid can’t rewrite every contract or promise blanket concessions to the entire lessee base, especially as we don't and couldn't know the nuances of the inner workings of LFS, BofA, and Lucid.

Bottom line: Josh asked for relief, he got it and then some. Lucid Financial waived the $450 lease-termination fee. And they reversed the $200 invoice in full. I'd say that is an amazing result.
So, you point is, the issue with lease returns is with BofA, not with Lucid. BofA can set any ccriteria and any inspection they desire, independent of Lucid. And in Josh's case, he is luck to get off easy. But BofA can exrcise whatever inspect criteria and whatever charges they desire?!

If so, Lucid should dump BofA or suffer the consequences of losing business as potential lessee would not engage.
 
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't post; but since Lucid has said through multiple channels they're working to get this fixed for everyone (not just for you which what I believe you're fighting for and we all support that), I think it's fair to give them some time to see if they deliver or not. I know you love Lucid and want them to succeed; that's why you are trying to get them to fix something damaging their brand. I hope you stay with Lucid when all this is resolved; remember how many people you're helping with all the work you put into your case. 🤝🏾
This. @JoshG I think we've all appreciated your posts on this; I think the concern is just that Rome wasn't built in a day and we're all waiting with bated breath to see how Lucid resolves this overall.
 
Josh got the “diamond-crusted” apology he asked for. And I think exactly the most any publicly traded company can do when a customer is hell-bent on going to the press. Lucid can’t rewrite every contract or promise blanket concessions to the entire lessee base, especially as we don't and couldn't know the nuances of the inner workings of LFS, BofA, and Lucid.

Bottom line: Josh asked for relief, he got it and then some. Lucid Financial waived the $450 lease-termination fee. And they reversed the $200 invoice in full. I'd say that is an amazing result.
If BOFA violated Lucid's guidelines then every person in the lessee base who was incorrectly assessed should absolutely be given blanket concessions.
 
So, you point is, the issue with lease returns is with BofA, not with Lucid. BofA can set any ccriteria and any inspection they desire, independent of Lucid. And in Josh's case, he is luck to get off easy. But BofA can exrcise whatever inspect criteria and whatever charges they desire?!
Technically, yes. BofA owns the car. Not Lucid. The lessee is leasing it from BofA. Lucid has no interest in this other than a name-sharing arrangement (which obviously ties them with significant interest).

If so, Lucid should dump BofA or suffer the consequences of losing business as potential lessee would not engage.
I think this entire thread can be boiled down to 'renegotiate or dump BofA', yes.
 
If BOFA violated Lucid's guidelines then every person in the lessee base who was incorrectly assessed should absolutely be given blanket concessions.
Agreed. But technically BofA doesn't have to, to my knowledge. I would bet many dollars there are a lot of phone calls and in-person meetings happening right now between BofA and Lucid Motors.
 
Agreed. But technically BofA doesn't have to, to my knowledge. I would bet many dollars there are a lot of phone calls and in-person meetings happening right now between BofA and Lucid Motors.
I'll stake you, @borski lol.

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Technically, yes. BofA owns the car. Not Lucid. The lessee is leasing it from BofA. Lucid has no interest in this other than a name-sharing arrangement (which obviously ties them with significant interest).


I think this entire thread can be boiled down to 'renegotiate or dump BofA', yes.
I hate to admit this, TECHNICALLY-SPEAKING, I agree with you, in that the lessee's contract is with BofA and not with Lucid.

But, if Lucid follows this path, I think it is suicidal. Lucid should dump BofA and/or impose Luicid's inspection criteria as the norm.

Lucid better recognize that BofA has little to lose on this flight. Lucid is the BIG loser if this continues!
 
Words do matter. Whether it's international relations or corporate releases. Ill chosen words can cause all sorts of unintended consequences to which we are now witnessing. Just because you do not understand this, does not mean that all is well and people who were affected should just shut up and accept it.
imagine reading my post and the conclusion you come to is that i dont understand that words have unintended consequences. that is LITERALLY what im saying.

lucid chose the most legally defensible and neutral response as a stop gap until a formal standard and guideline can be released. but just because the stop gap minimizes legal consequences, that doesn't prevent consumer sentiment ones, which is what these debates have turned into.
 
Agreed. But technically BofA doesn't have to, to my knowledge. I would bet many dollars there are a lot of phone calls and in-person meetings happening right now between BofA and Lucid Motors.

I hate to admit this, TECHNICALLY-SPEAKING, I agree with you, in that the lessee's contract is with BofA and not with Lucid.

But, if Lucid follows this path, I think it is suicidal. Lucid should dump BofA and/or impose Luicid's inspection criteria as the norm.

Lucid better recognize that BofA has little to lose on this flight. Lucid is the BIG loser if this continues!
I am sure that if the Saudi's are following this, I would not be surprised if in the next few months we hear that the person who negotiated the contract with BOFA has resigned for personal reasons. The Saudi's demoted Peter Rawlinson for whatever reason, so my expectation is that firing the person responsible for this debacle should come as no surprise.
 
imagine reading my post and the conclusion you come to is that i dont understand that words have unintended consequences. that is LITERALLY what im saying.

lucid chose the most legally defensible and neutral response as a stop gap until a formal standard and guideline can be released. but just because the stop gap minimizes legal consequences, that doesn't prevent consumer sentiment ones, which is what these debates have turned into.
Words matter is EXACTLY what you were saying @Impatient7536 . Thank you for saying this. After reading @WildRide47 post, I did not have a freaking clue what he was talking about. Your first post was spot on and universal corporate best practice. And corporate legal as well. If people here think Lucid should publicly fall on its sword for clearly shitty practices practiced by BoA, they are naive and commercially foolish.

I have written thousands of commercial and HR settlement agreements, and not once did a party say: Gee, we are so sorry we hurt your feelings. And I have never had an opposing counsel ask for one

Years ago, I remember a judge asking a plaintiff if he agreed and accepted the terms of the lucrative settlement. The answer was: yes, But, I really want an apology. To which the judge replied, "our system of justice addresses damages,not hurt feelings. Take the money and move on."
 
Words matter is EXACTLY what you were saying @Impatient7536 . Thank you for saying this. After reading @WildRide47 post, I did not have a freaking clue what he was talking about. Your first post was spot on and universal corporate best practice. And corporate legal as well. If people here think Lucid should publicly fall on its sword for clearly shitty practices practiced by BoA, they are naive and commercially foolish.

I have written thousands of commercial and HR settlement agreements, and not once did a party say: Gee, we are so sorry we hurt your feelings. And I have never had an opposing counsel ask for one

Years ago, I remember a judge asking a plaintiff if he agreed and accepted the terms of the lucrative settlement. The answer was: yes, But, I really want an apology. To which the judge replied, "our system of justice addresses damages,not hurt feelings. Take the money and move on."
I am sure you are an expert on the thousands of HR settlement agreements you have written. But I am looking at the human side and what is best for Lucid long term. Most people on this board have no interest in monetary damages. They just want Lucid to fix the problem and offer an apology(especially when Lucid ghosted them and only responded to them when they went to the media). These early adopters have been good will ambassadors free of charge for Lucid. Without apologies many who I'm sure feel like they have been taken advantage of, may still feel some ill will(as many have stated they will never buy or recommend a Lucid to anyone else again.) Are apologies naive and foolish as you stated. I would say certainly yes to a lawyer's mind or judges instruction. But human beings are not machines and don't always think in terms of lawyers or HR settlements. Sometimes an apology will go a long way to calm the waters and give some closure to a perceived or actual mistreatment. Some won't need the apology, but others will. It cost nothing to Lucid and if worded properly should not expose them to litigation. I'm sure there are those who on this board who think I am naive and foolish for stating my viewpoint, but I would bet there are others who agree with me.
 
I am sure you are an expert on the thousands of HR settlement agreements you have written. But I am looking at the human side and what is best for Lucid long term. Most people on this board have no interest in monetary damages. They just want Lucid to fix the problem and offer an apology(especially when Lucid ghosted them and only responded to them when they went to the media). These early adopters have been good will ambassadors free of charge for Lucid. Without apologies many who I'm sure feel like they have been taken advantage of, may still feel some ill will(as many have stated they will never buy or recommend a Lucid to anyone else again.) Are apologies naive and foolish as you stated. I would say certainly yes to a lawyer's mind or judges instruction. But human beings are not machines and don't always think in terms of lawyers or HR settlements. Sometimes an apology will go a long way to calm the waters and give some closure to a perceived or actual mistreatment. Some won't need the apology, but others will. It cost nothing to Lucid and if worded properly should not expose them to litigation. I'm sure there are those who on this board who think I am naive and foolish for stating my viewpoint, but I would bet there are others who agree with me.
I appreciate the human angle here. I really do. And I don’t think it’s foolish to want some acknowledgment when a customer feels mistreated. But in practice, corporations (especially publicly traded ones) don’t issue apologies for the kind of isolated transactional disputes we’re talking about here even if they result in real frustration.

When do companies apologize publicly? Typically, it’s in response to:
  • Widespread systemic failures (e.g., a data breach affecting millions of customers)
  • Regulatory violations (where an agency has stepped in or issued a fine)
  • Product recalls or safety issues (especially those with legal liability implications)
  • Criminal conduct or unethical behavior by senior leadership
Non of that has happened here, especially none of that has happened on the Lucid Motors side. (BofA probably has had run ins in every category in the past, lol.)

Those apologies are usually carefully worded by legal and PR teams, often accompanied by a fine, settlement, or some form of restitution. But when it comes to billing disputes, customer service breakdowns, or even lease-related friction like we’ve seen here? The best we’ll usually get is a policy change, a goodwill gesture, or a statement that “we’re reviewing our processes.” (Basically all of which happened for @JoshG)

It’s not because Lucid doesn’t care it’s because issuing formal apologies in these contexts sets a precedent and creates legal exposure. (Especially when Josh is determined to share it with the world and to every nosey reporter.) Even a carefully worded apology could be used in arbitration or court by someone trying to assign fault. So companies generally fix the problem quietly and move on.

In my view, it’s better that Lucid focus on improving transparency and consistency around lease returns because that’s something that can help everyone. An apology, even if it “costs nothing,” (as you say) could actually cost quite a lot.

To put it in perspective, since some say this could be solved with 100-200k think about if you have manufactured 26k vehicles of which 50% are leased, 13,000 leased vehicles. You can average the cost of labor (to dispute/process the claims) and fix vehicles with wear and tear at $2k per vehicle. This would create a 26M potential liability. Sure these numbers have no basis in reality as I’m too lazy to do a ton of research. But a 2k (or in this instance $650) refund can cost a company millions of dollars each year. Something BofA/LFS wouldn’t want to bear and lucid doesn’t have the power to control.

I honestly think your perspective is naive, and I’m sorry this is the way the world works. But I challenge you to show me any auto manufacture that’s come out and said sorry for something in this context. (Maybe I’m wrong, always a distinct possibility)
 
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