Latest numbers from the Sapphire run: 1.8 - 3.7 - 226

[Overcharged]

The most recent visit to a Telsa store was about 3 years ago.
At that point they had been in business for years.
The sales associate said flat out, we will not give you a competitive trade in, better to sell your car elsewhere.

 

[Sapphire™]

Sorry for wrong quote, the 3.7 was for 0-100. They did 1/4 mile in mid 8s.

Btw, they did a lot of benchmark run against the Plaid & GT3. For the Plaid, same track got them 2.1, low 9s, and they couldn't test max speed due to tire limit.

Looking good!

 

[LCIDdreams]

The most recent visit to a Telsa store was about 3 years ago.
At that point they had been in business for years.
The sales associate said flat out, we will not give you a competitive trade in, better to sell your car elsewhere.

I think it’s still the case you would get a better offer from one of Carmax, Zoom, or Carvana. These days, with their limited new inventory, car dealers from other brands often offer best prices for late model used cars so they actually have something to show on their lot and sell.

 

[Drendino]

I don’t think they should. It’s business.

This is true, but it could end up backfiring if people start sitting out on buying top end cars for fear that it will become obsolete in a matter of months. It might be a smart short term play to claim notoriety of having the fastest car, but if they continue to piss off their ambassadors, it could hurt sales. That too would be business. They should get better about communicating their roadmap to the extent that it won’t hurt their business.

 

[borski]

This is true, but it could end up backfiring if people start sitting out on buying top end cars for fear that it will become obsolete in a matter of months. It might be a smart short term play to claim notoriety of having the fastest car, but if they continue to piss off their ambassadors, it could hurt sales. That too would be business. They should get better about communicating their roadmap to the extent that it won’t hurt their business.

At the very least, this DE owner was well aware and will be fine and happy for having been able to drive the DE for 2 years or so before the Sapphire is released

 

[maractwin]

I think it’s still the case you would get a better offer from one of Carmax, Zoom, or Carvana. These days, with their limited new inventory, car dealers from other brands often offer best prices for late model used cars so they actually have something to show on their lot and sell.

I just sold my 6 year old Audi through CarMax, who offered me $3000 more than the Audi dealer I originally bought it from. I expect my Lucid to be delivered this week...

 

[Sapphire™]

I just sold my 6 year old Audi through CarMax, who offered me $3000 more than the Audi dealer I originally bought it from. I expect my Lucid to be delivered this week...

Congratulations!

 

[lucidcapitalist]

im interested in a lot of the market research that went into the sapphire, like

1) if the people would still be angry if they had announced the sapphire for 1st half of 2024. cuz having about 2 years of exclusivity before the delivery of a exclusive performance line might be more than enough buffer time.
2) if the $179k -> $250k jump is enough of a price difference to differentiate the consumer base where there wouldn't be as much anger from the DE-P and GTP buyers. clearly, it seems that the ~$70k difference wasn't enough. perhaps if it was a $100k difference, there wouldn't be as much anger?

not an expert, so it would be fun to if we can get some insider sneak peak

I think you're spot on. But, the Sapphire won't be in customer's hands for a while and the exclusivity and first to own raeasonable time will standard will have been met IMO. And quarter mil price is a pretty big price break. I think the schadenfreude is a bit melodramatic and isolated.

are they planning to respond to those angry dreamers/gtpers?

Like what is Lucid supposed to say? We are sorry we re constantly developing new products and iterations and will announce them as soon as we are certain about bringing the model to market. You can wait indefinitely and then you will never have yesterday's model. As a Lucid investor I want more models not less.

 

[absent]

Not feeling sorry for any Lucid DE owners unhappy that the Sapphire was announced.
I was one of the earliest deposit holders for the DE but I knew from the beginning Lucid was working on a tri motor.
Pay attention and you know the plans, only really ignorant types would be "surprised " by the news.
I cancelled my order because I had too many cars coming at the time, my Plaid showed up and just 4 months later my BMW M5 CS arrived so Tesla had to go.
The Sapphire is the car I have waited for almost 3 years now, when they opened the books on Tuesday 23rd I was ready and secured the order immediately.
I have a guarantee from my MB dealer to get the first GT 63S e Performance but I will skip it most likely and stick to my current daily S580 until the Lucid shows up.

 

[hmp10]

I was one of the earliest deposit holders for the DE but I knew from the beginning Lucid was working on a tri motor.

Exactly. I waited three and a half years post deposit for my DE and knew for more than the last year and a half of that wait that Lucid had a tri-motor car in the works -- as did anyone who was paying attention to the company. I had the opportunity to wait for the tri-motor but chose to take the Dream Edition, see how I liked the brand, and then make a decision about moving to the tri-motor when it came out.

 

[Sapphire™]

Exactly. I waited three and a half years post deposit for my DE and knew for more than the last year and a half of that wait that Lucid had a tri-motor car in the works -- as did anyone who was paying attention to the company. I had the opportunity to wait for the tri-motor but chose to take the Dream Edition, see how I liked the brand, and then make a decision about moving to the tri-motor when it came out.

Can I please ask, if you don't mind for a brief summation of your thoughts of ownership Lucid vs Tesla? I guess the main areas are build quality interior/exterior and practicality like rear passenger space in comparison. Thanks.

 

[hmp10]

Can I please ask, if you don't mind for a brief summation of your thoughts of ownership Lucid vs Tesla? I guess the main areas are build quality interior/exterior and practicality like rear passenger space in comparison. Thanks.

Pro Tesla:

- much more reliable software (although not problem free)
- large center screen with satellite maps (although I'll soon get a look at the new satellite map in the Lucid when it gets back from the shop)
- more functional front center console and wireless phone charger stations
- incredibly fast acceleration off the line and from speed
- Superchargers more accessible and more reliable

Pro Lucid:

- more solid body structure (the Tesla Plaid developed squeaks and groans at lower mileage than the Air has attained while remaining squeak and rattle free)
- better fit & finish
- vastly more roomy and comfortable passenger cabin, especially in rear seats
- much airier and more stylish cabin (although the latter is subjective)
- almost as quick off the line as the Plaid, but front end of Lucid stays better planted under hard acceleration
- more compliant ride with overall better handling in quick maneuvers
- quieter interior
- better range
- a real steering wheel instead of that unwieldy yoke
- many more luxury features (extending thigh supports in front seats, front seat massagers, automatic frunk lid operation, motorized rear window shades)
- better audio system
- much easier to use manual controls for A/C temp and fan speed, vent adjustments, and volume controls; easy to use haptic buttons for lights, wipers, door unlocking that don't require you to go into submenus

Conclusion:

I enjoy the acceleration of the Plaid but find everything else except its software inferior to the Lucid. Lucid's continued software malfunctions are driving me to distraction, but I find everything else about the car on an entirely different plane than the Tesla.

Tesla's service in the early years with my first Tesla was superb but then took a nosedive with the introduction of the Model 3, and it has not recovered.

Lucid's service has so far been superb, but I am seeing some early symptoms of a service infrastructure that is getting overwhelmed.

 

[Sapphire™]

Pro Tesla:

- much more reliable software (although not problem free)
- large center screen with satellite maps (although I'll soon get a look at the new satellite map in the Lucid when it gets back from the shop)
- more functional front center console and wireless phone charger stations
- incredibly fast acceleration off the line and from speed
- Superchargers more accessible and more reliable

Pro Lucid:

- more solid body structure (the Tesla Plaid developed squeaks and groans at lower mileage than the Air has attained while remaining squeak and rattle free)
- better fit & finish
- vastly more roomy and comfortable passenger cabin, especially in rear seats
- much airier and more stylish cabin (although the latter is subjective)
- almost as quick off the line as the Plaid, but front end of Lucid stays better planted under hard acceleration
- more compliant ride with overall better handling in quick maneuvers
- quieter interior
- better range
- a real steering wheel instead of that unwieldy yoke
- many more luxury features (extending thigh supports in front seats, front seat massagers, automatic frunk lid operation, motorized rear window shades)
- better audio system
- much easier to use manual controls for A/C temp and fan speed, vent adjustments, and volume controls; easy to use haptic buttons for lights, wipers, door unlocking that don't require you to go into submenus

Conclusion:

I enjoy the acceleration of the Plaid but find everything else except its software inferior to the Lucid. Lucid's continued software malfunctions are driving me to distraction, but I find everything else about the car on an entirely different plane than the Tesla.

Tesla's service in the early years with my first Tesla was superb but then took a nosedive with the introduction of the Model 3, and it has not recovered.

Lucid's service has so far been superb, but I am seeing some early symptoms of a service infrastructure that is getting overwhelmed.

Thank You so very much! Appreciated.

 

[Bill55]

If all that mattered to an EV buyer is the fastest track numbers, Dream Edition owners would be driving Model S Plaids instead.

A lot of what appeals to me about the Dream is not only its prodigious power, but its superb blend of handling and ride compliance, its understated luxury, and its gorgeous cabin.

I have to admit I'm tempted by the Sapphire and still don't know whether I'm going to switch. But there are things about the Sapphire that give me pause: the stiffer suspension, the "boy racer" looks, the lack of interior and exterior color choices, the garish blue screens, a likely significant loss of range . . . .

I am far from convinced that all -- or even many -- Dream Edition buyers are put out with Lucid for introducing the Sapphire when they did.

I have fewer concerns. I think the suspension will be similar to the DE when set for daily driving. I do not think there will be a significant range difference to the DE performance. I like the stealth package, rims and wide body kit.

Car manufacturer release special additions all the time that have improvements over what was the ”top” of performance previously. With EV’s pace of change will be faster as so much is software and battery related.

Having the Sapphire or Plaid or Nevera out in the world does not make the DE performance any less impressive.

 

[hmp10]

I have fewer concerns. I think the suspension will be similar to the DE when set for daily driving.

You may be right. Few independent auto reviewers have actually ridden in the Sapphire yet, but a couple who did have commented that the ride was still compliant. I'm wondering if the reduction in front wheel diameter from 21" to 20" will offset a bit of the effect of the stiffened springs.

One thing that I've not seen mentioned thus far by the press about the Model S Plaid is tram lining. The Sapphire has the same width tires front and back as the Plaid from the same manufacturer (Michelin, although perhaps a different compound), and our Plaid tram lines noticeably on certain stretches of interstate that have no such effect on our Dream Edition with narrower tires.

 

[hmp10]

I do not think there will be a significant range difference to the DE performance.

There is a 27-mile range difference between the Model S Long Range and the Model S Plaid on the same wheels and tires (375 miles vs. 348 miles). But there are no differences in the bodywork of the two cars.

There are significant differences in aerodynamics-related features between the Sapphire and the Dream Edition: different wheels, wider tires, wheel well flares, larger front lip and rear wing to increase downforce (which increases drag). So I'm guessing there will be more of a range penalty between the Sapphire and the Dream than between the Plaid and the Long Range (especially without the aero wheel covers on the Sapphire).

I'm guessing the Sapphire (with aero wheel covers) will have a range hovering around the 400-mile mark -- i. e., a 45-50 mile range penalty against the Dream Edition Performance but still putting it on a par with the Long Range Model S with the smaller wheel/tire option on the S. And that would be pretty damn impressive and still leave the car a great road tripper.

If I'm wrong and the range penalty is less, that would move me from impressed to amazed.

 

[hmp10]

The most recent visit to a Telsa store was about 3 years ago.
At that point they had been in business for years.
The sales associate said flat out, we will not give you a competitive trade in, better to sell your car elsewhere.

If you are trading for a car from the same dealer, you have to remember to factor in the sales tax. On a trade, you only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade-in price of the old car and the purchase price of the new car. If you sell the old car privately, you pay sales tax on the full purchase price of the new car. That can amount to several thousand dollars of saving in the case of expensive cars. For example, when we traded our 2015 Model S for a 2022 Model S Plaid, we saved about $3,000 on sales tax by letting Tesla take the old car, so a private sale price would have had to beat Tesla's offer by at least that amount to break even . . . and none did.

Also, with a trade-in you don't run the risk of a used car buyer coming after you with claims that you did not disclose something about the car that they now find a problem.

 

[Overcharged]

For a while Illinois capped the amount of previously paid sales tax you could roll into a new purchase (essentially creating an extra tax on folks who trade frequently and/or play in the luxury car space), That was removed in 2022.

 

[hmp10]

I've done a little sniffing around about used car prices for a Dream Edition in case I decide to switch to a Sapphire. Carvana doesn't have Lucid listed on its website and will not give a quote off its VIN. Carmax will not quote over the internet but instead requires that you bring your car to one of their stores. I've been watching eBay Motors. There are currently six DEs listed for sale, and they aren't exactly getting snapped up, although starting bids are all above original price.

If I remember correctly, Tesla didn't introduce its trade-in program for Teslas (called the "Resale Value Guarantee") until several years after the Model S hit the market and early buyers were beginning to look for a price floor as they began to consider trading. I suspect Lucid might follow the same pattern of waiting for trade-in demand to build before diverting resources to it.

Rivian is offering a trade-in program from the outset, but their business model is based on larger early sales volumes of lower-priced vehicles than Lucid's business model, and Rivian buyers are probably more dependent on funds from trade-ins than early Lucid buyers of the most expensive models. Also, Rivian is not running its own program to acquire and resell used cars. Cox Automotive is handling the trade-in program for them.

 

[Bill55]

If you are trading for a car from the same dealer, you have to remember to factor in the sales tax. On a trade, you only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade-in price of the old car and the purchase price of the new car. If you sell the old car privately, you pay sales tax on the full purchase price of the new car. That can amount to several thousand dollars of saving in the case of expensive cars. For example, when we traded our 2015 Model S for a 2022 Model S Plaid, we saved about $3,000 on sales tax by letting Tesla take the old car, so a private sale price would have had to beat Tesla's offer by at least that amount to break even . . . and none did.

Also, with a trade-in you don't run the risk of a used car buyer coming after you with claims that you did not disclose something about the car that they now find a problem.

That varies by state. Our friends in CA have to pay tax on full price regardless of trade In.
Ask me how I know.