Speculation Is Pagani next

quantum

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Saudi PIF owns 30% stake in Pagani.....I suspect they will be the next company to partner with Lucid. Ironic that they have partnered with Mercedes for their ICE car just like Aston Martin!.
 

He went on to hint that the V12's days are numbered, saying: "Our next hypercars will keep conveying unique emotions, irrespectively of their powertrain technology."

In 2018, Pagani told Autocar that there was "electric car research already ongoing", but the company has offered no more clues in the three years since.
 

"Christopher Pagani, the son of the company's founder, told TopGear.com that the existing battery technology does not allow Pagani to create the EV it wants – the tech is too heavy."

Lucid probably has the lightest/most power-dense EV tech, so maybe there is potential for a partnership if Pagani needs to build an EV in the next few years, especially since solid-state batteries are far from being ready.
 
Inside of a Pagani Huayra I got to see at a Sotheby’s auction. The car is so insanely distinctive and bespoke I’d be surprised if they were willing to use anyone else’s tech. Koenigsegg I think just developed an EV motor with more power/Kg than Lucid, and I’m not sure what Rimac EV motors are like, but I think those vehicles are in another league which I’d be surprised if Lucid could partner with them for much, Saudi connection or not. I’d be quite happy if Lucid did contribute to anything on a Pagani though, the cars are a work of art.
IMG_2278.webp
IMG_2279.webp
 
Inside of a Pagani Huayra I got to see at a Sotheby’s auction. The car is so insanely distinctive and bespoke I’d be surprised if they were willing to use anyone else’s tech. Koenigsegg I think just developed an EV motor with more power/Kg than Lucid, and I’m not sure what Rimac EV motors are like, but I think those vehicles are in another league which I’d be surprised if Lucid could partner with them for much, Saudi connection or not. I’d be quite happy if Lucid did contribute to anything on a Pagani though, the cars are a work of art.
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I think the Koenigsegg motors are great and small, but only produce that power in a burst and not a sustained draw. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember from a previous thread.

Found it

Quark torque and power chart_2.webp
 
I think the Koenigsegg motors are great and small, but only produce that power in a burst and not a sustained draw. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember from a previous thread.

Found it

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Wow, so Lucid power train is better for sustained power. Pretty impressive. Plus the graph runs out at 10K RPM, don’t our motors go to like 24k RPM?
 
Wow, so Lucid power train is better for sustained power. Pretty impressive. Plus the graph runs out at 10K RPM, don’t our motors go to like 24k RPM?
Yessir.
 
Well.. its definitely possible. I think that Pagani would go with Rimac though, as many automakers today do.
 
Inside of a Pagani Huayra I got to see at a Sotheby’s auction. The car is so insanely distinctive and bespoke I’d be surprised if they were willing to use anyone else’s tech. Koenigsegg I think just developed an EV motor with more power/Kg than Lucid, and I’m not sure what Rimac EV motors are like, but I think those vehicles are in another league which I’d be surprised if Lucid could partner with them for much, Saudi connection or not. I’d be quite happy if Lucid did contribute to anything on a Pagani though, the cars are a work of art.
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One of the most cool thing about Pagani was that exposed gear shift mechanim. Maybe they will come up with something for an electric motor.
 
“The hybrid V8 was considered, but the car was just too heavy, 400 or 500 kilos more, and our clients didn’t want anything to do with it. We have to build what the client is going to buy from us,” said Pagani. “In 2017, we built a team to work on an EV. The whole team was focused and excited—including myself—and we defined the concept for this car and we got to work with Mercedes-AMG and other partners. We even started working with Lucid, which has excellent technology in the world of EVs. But then this is what happened: customers were not interested.

 
You really want a high-winding V12 in a hyperexotic. It's all about the drama and sound.
 
Even Aston Martin -- which sells like a Ford pickup compared to Pagani's annual sales of under 50 cars -- has pushed back plans for its EV introduction.

Big-ticket buyers of exotica are a different market demographic from well-heeled early adopters who were drawn to Lucid's technology. It will be interesting to see how the Rolls Royce Spectre sells, as it sits somewhere in that crossover range from well-heeled early adoption to ultra-wealthy exotica.
 
Even if Pagani was next, they make insanely low volume cars right?

Sorry didn't read the replies. Looks like others have mentioned this point.
 
Speaking of who's next, whatever happened to those rumors from months ago that Lucid and Hyundai were about to announce a sourcing deal to put Lucid powertrain components in the new Genesis luxury line?

I don't really see any signs that Lucid's licensing strategy is bearing fruit. That does and doesn't surprise me.
 
Speaking of who's next, whatever happened to those rumors from months ago that Lucid and Hyundai were about to announce a sourcing deal to put Lucid powertrain components in the new Genesis luxury line?

I don't really see any signs that Lucid's licensing strategy is bearing fruit. That does and doesn't surprise me.
I've been hoping that they've been holding back the news to time it with a turning share price. The share price has started to turn but still crickets. But the PR drip has been decent, so maybe it eventually will come.

CEER did sign with Hyundai, so I really hope we see some type of quid pro quo.
 
I've been hoping that they've been holding back the news to time it with a turning share price. The share price has started to turn but still crickets. But the PR drip has been decent, so maybe it eventually will come.

CEER did sign with Hyundai, so I really hope we see some type of quid pro quo.

Could be, and I really hope so.

I've been wondering, though, if the slowdown in EV adoption hasn't become a factor. A few years ago when everyone wanted to catch the EV train before it left the station, some of the big manufacturers seemed to be struggling with getting their in-house technology to the point it could compete with the head start Tesla had on them, and Lucid could offer some of them a licensing solution. But now the slowdown in the move toward EVs has bought them more time and allowed their natural bias toward keeping core technology in house to rule the call.

I'm speculating, of course, but I do wonder.
 
Could be, and I really hope so.

I've been wondering, though, if the slowdown in EV adoption hasn't become a factor. A few years ago when everyone wanted to catch the EV train before it left the station, some of the big manufacturers seemed to be struggling with getting their in-house technology to the point it could compete with the head start Tesla had on them, and Lucid could offer some of them a licensing solution. But now the slowdown in the move toward EVs has bought them more time and allowed their natural bias toward keeping core technology in house to rule the call.

I'm speculating, of course, but I do wonder.

I wonder if that has resulted in a shift away from licensing lucids tech.
 
Kyle Conner posted a video yesterday in which he reports that Honda is moving away from sourcing EV components from GM's Ultium platform and will be going in-house for their next-generation EV products. And this is an automaker that has been lukewarm at best in embracing EVs.

This further suggests that most major automakers are going to want their core EV propulsion technology to be in-house and that, if they license EV technology at all, it will just be a bridging strategy. That really would leave only low-volume automakers mostly at the high end as potential customers to license Lucid technology, as some of them (such as Rolls Royce, Bugatti, and Aston) have long been willing to source ICE technology from larger automakers. But even in this ultra-refined space Lucid will face licensing competition, as the likes of Rimac and Koenigsegg are offering their EV technology for licensing.

 
As always it will be a race to the bottom and legacy manufacturers are already on the back foot. Or should I say, STILL on the back foot. I secretly think that half the reason for the hybrid narrative. They are pushing the idea that hybrids are the better choice because they know they don't have the technology inhouse.

Personally I don't think Koenigsegg is a threat, their tech although cutting edge, is so specialized and produced in such low numbers that I highly doubt any mass market automotive company would entertain licensing from them. The real threat is Rimac. I'm sure the VW group will be tapping into their technology pipeline for all future models across the entire VW Group. So its a race to the bottom, Lucid needs to get it motor/battery tech to a point where it can be licensed in a profitable manner for EVs that are in the 20K-40K range. Its good new that they are pushing hard for midsize next, and based on interviews it sounds like they rapidly iterating on the motor design hopefully to improve the economies of scale. Makes you wonder what the current cost of the motor is and how low they think they can push the cost down.
 

"New Atlas Drive Unit

While Lucid's powertrain technology is already years ahead of the competition, the company announced its next-generation drive unit, Atlas, which is in development and undergoing extensive testing. The new drive unit enables enhanced value for Lucid and its customers. The Atlas Drive Unit is destined for the company's upcoming midsize platform vehicles."

There it is.

Hello Atlas. Aptly named, the success of Lucid's Midsized programs rest upon your burley shoulders.

On a side note, with several European manufacturers pulling back on full EV adoption until 2030 and later, I wonder if they internally continue to invest in their underlying platform technology. If Peter is right, and Lucid is half a decade a head, and Atlas can truly be cost effective, perhaps this is a real opportunity for Lucid to capitalize on licensing it's next generation drive unit.
 
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