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I Just Don't Get It . . .

hmp10

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I have a reservation for both a Lucid Air Dream Edition and a Rivian R1S SUV and participate in the forums for both.

The Lucid Air is hitting the market ahead of Rivian's two launch vehicles. The Lucid Air has gotten extensive coverage from the mainstream automotive press (such as "Car & Driver" and "Motor Trend"), which have gone along on convoy range tests and observed race track time trials (where Lucid set several records), and were well represented at the September 9, 2020 reveal. EV internet channels with large followings, such as "E for Electric", "Transport Evolved", "InsideEVS", "Fully Charged", "Electroheads", etc. have each run multiple, lengthly, and highly-complimentary segments on the Air. Not a day goes by without a couple of YouTube videos on the Lucid Air going up (not counting the recent explosion of SPAC videos obsessing about a stock offering). Lucid has finally launched a national TV ad campaign.

Moreover, Lucid has recently won two prestigious awards: the Forbes Transportation Award for Best Product 2020 and the Chicago Athenaeum Good Design Award for 2020. Also, Lucid picked up the Overall Electric Vehicle of the Year award from the newly-established AutoTech Breakthrough Awards.

Rivian is also getting a lot of attention, but nothing exceeding Lucid in this regard, or even matching it in some cases. Yet the principle Rivian forum is hopping with activity while crickets are chirping on this one.

The 20 most active members on the Rivian forum have averaged 481 posts apiece. Two members have exceeded 1200 posts each. There were ten new posts yesterday on the forum (despite Super Bowl). There has not been a post on this forum since last Thursday. The post prior to that one was four days earlier.

What gives here?

Is the potential Lucid customer base really that much smaller than Rivian's?

Do age and economic demographics make potential Lucid buyers less internet-oriented?

Is a Lucid Air sedan that much less appealing than a Rivian pickup or SUV?

Is Lucid just not resonating with the EV-buying public?

Has having Saudi Arabia as a principal investor in Lucid instead of Amazon and Ford as principal investors in Rivian suppressed interest in Lucid?

I just don't get it.
 

WildRide47

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Oct 22, 2020
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I have a reservation for both a Lucid Air Dream Edition and a Rivian R1S SUV and participate in the forums for both.

The Lucid Air is hitting the market ahead of Rivian's two launch vehicles. The Lucid Air has gotten extensive coverage from the mainstream automotive press (such as "Car & Driver" and "Motor Trend"), which have gone along on convoy range tests and observed race track time trials (where Lucid set several records), and were well represented at the September 9, 2020 reveal. EV internet channels with large followings, such as "E for Electric", "Transport Evolved", "InsideEVS", "Fully Charged", "Electroheads", etc. have each run multiple, lengthly, and highly-complimentary segments on the Air. Not a day goes by without a couple of YouTube videos on the Lucid Air going up (not counting the recent explosion of SPAC videos obsessing about a stock offering). Lucid has finally launched a national TV ad campaign.

Moreover, Lucid has recently won two prestigious awards: the Forbes Transportation Award for Best Product 2020 and the Chicago Athenaeum Good Design Award for 2020. Also, Lucid picked up the Overall Electric Vehicle of the Year award from the newly-established AutoTech Breakthrough Awards.

Rivian is also getting a lot of attention, but nothing exceeding Lucid in this regard, or even matching it in some cases. Yet the principle Rivian forum is hopping with activity while crickets are chirping on this one.

The 20 most active members on the Rivian forum have averaged 481 posts apiece. Two members have exceeded 1200 posts each. There were ten new posts yesterday on the forum (despite Super Bowl). There has not been a post on this forum since last Thursday. The post prior to that one was four days earlier.

What gives here?

Is the potential Lucid customer base really that much smaller than Rivian's?

Do age and economic demographics make potential Lucid buyers less internet-oriented?

Is a Lucid Air sedan that much less appealing than a Rivian pickup or SUV?

Is Lucid just not resonating with the EV-buying public?

Has having Saudi Arabia as a principal investor in Lucid instead of Amazon and Ford as principal investors in Rivian suppressed interest in Lucid?

I just don't get it.
 

WildRide47

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Oct 22, 2020
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My impression is that I just don't think there has been that much new information( released by Lucid) in the last week to comment on. Example. Horsepower figures were released, but no torque numbers? I expect after the car is approved for sale and the car magazines get a hold of one for testing, then that will change.
 

hmp10

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Mar 7, 2020
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437
I hope so, although there was only a small, short-lived uptick of forum activity after the September 9 reveal.

A couple of months ago I compiled lists of all the technical information and specs that had been released on the Rivians and on the Lucid Air. There were actually more items on the Lucid list than the Rivian list, yet the Rivians were getting far more discussion, driven to a good extent by several engineers who were participating on that forum.
 

WildRide47

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Oct 22, 2020
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I hope so, although there was only a small, short-lived uptick of forum activity after the September 9 reveal.

A couple of months ago I compiled lists of all the technical information and specs that had been released on the Rivians and on the Lucid Air. There were actually more items on the Lucid list than the Rivian list, yet the Rivians were getting far more discussion, driven to a good extent by several engineers who were participating on that forum.
 

WildRide47

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I presume since there is more demand for SUV's than sedans, that maybe the reason. Again, when Lucid is released, I would expect renewed interest. If not, then Lucid has a problem.
 

WildRide47

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I plan to put my order in for a Lucid air Dream/Grand Touring Edition during the summer of 2022 for a 2023 model( I am unhappy that the Dream Edition will probably not be available by then) Maybe if the demand is there, they will extend it . I had originally ordered a 2020 Porsche Taycon Turbo but canceled my order after finding the B pillar interfered with my ingress/egress. I was also underwhelmed with the range of the Taycon.
Since there are no plans to have a studio in Portland Oregon during 2021 there is no way I’m going to order the car without first test driving it or having a place to go to for repairs. In addition I noted that there of been a number of glitches with the Porsche Taycon during its first year so I figure it’s better to wait a year after the Lucid release before putting my order in. Unless something better comes up, the Lucid is still my first choice.
 

hmp10

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If hard acceleration is your gig, I doubt that you will be disappointed in the Grand Touring's 3.0 second 0-60. I have a Tesla Model S P90D that does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, and that leaves me hanging onto the steering wheel for dear life . . . and passengers feeling the urge to vomit.

The only other differences between the Dream Edition and Grand Touring are color choices and wheels. You'll miss out on the nice Santa Monica interior, but you'll get double the exterior color choices with the Grand Touring (including the very nice Quantum Gray we saw in Miami). And personally, while I have come to like the Dream Edition 21" wheels, I still think the Grand Touring 21" wheels are better looking.

If the Taycan B pillar was an ingress/egress issue for you, I would give a word of caution about the Air. Its low, massive roof rails do require some contortion to avoid, and first-time users in the Design Studios (myself included) have done a fair bit of head bumping.
 

WildRide47

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Oct 22, 2020
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Thank you for your reply hmp10. I do agree with you in that I like the wheels of the Grand Touring better than the Dream edition, and I suppose the acceleration should be enough(my Panamera Turbo does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds) though I always like more power. The Santa Monica interior is impressive, but on the other hand the Grand Tourer offers more color selection. Will wait to see if the ingress/egress is enough for me to accept or is a dealbreaker. Won't know till I see the car and try it out. Hope its OK as I am impressed with the rest of the Lucid specs.
 

Dreaming

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What gives here?

Do age and economic demographics make potential Lucid buyers less internet-oriented?

I just don't get it.
I think this is most of it. You know there are lots of young people acting like they want a Rivian on that forum who won't be able to afford one for 20 years, if ever.

I'm retired, so have time to peruse Internet forums, even if I don't post much. No Instagram or Facebook, so the forums are how I stay up-to-date. But a lot of people who are retired have little or no interest in the Internet. And those still working at the income level to buy a Lucid don't have time.

Okay, plus it is a sedan. :rolleyes: Who needs it? I'm waiting for the SUV. No reason to comment about that for a couple years. Chirp.
 

WildRide47

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Actually I prefer a sedan rather than an SUV. Most SUV's are boxy looking and unappealing to my eyes. (to each his own). And yes I am retired. It would be perfect for me if the Lucid Air was half a foot shorter, but that will not prevent me from buying the Dream Edition or Grand Touring trim in the future.
 

hmp10

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I've been an EV addict ever since getting a Tesla Model S in 2015, and one of my bucket list items is to try as wide a variety of EVs as I can as soon as I can. I put in my Lucid reservation in September 2018 and a reservation for a Rivian R1S in February 2019.

We're hoping to take delivery on our Dream Edition in April/May and our R1S in October/November. If I live long enough (and if Tesla doesn't forget it ever teased it) we might also try the Roadster !!.

I'd like to consider sampling EVs from some other brands (such as the Mercedes EQS), but none of the other players in the EV arena offer the combination of power and range that Tesla, Lucid, and Rivian are bringing to the table. It seems the legacy brands are going to be playing catch up for a few more years, if not longer.
 

WildRide47

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I've been an EV addict ever since getting a Tesla Model S in 2015, and one of my bucket list items is to try as wide a variety of EVs as I can as soon as I can. I put in my Lucid reservation in September 2018 and a reservation for a Rivian R1S in February 2019.

We're hoping to take delivery on our Dream Edition in April/May and our R1S in October/November. If I live long enough (and if Tesla doesn't forget it ever teased it) we might also try the Roadster !!.

I'd like to consider sampling EVs from some other brands (such as the Mercedes EQS), but none of the other players in the EV arena offer the combination of power and range that Tesla, Lucid, and Rivian are bringing to the table. It seems the legacy brands are going to be playing catch up for a few more years, if not longer.
I have driven the Porsche Taycan Turbo and it is very impressive, but as you stated about the legacy brands, the range of the Taycan was very underwhelming.
 

hmp10

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The good news is that the Taycan is unique among EVs in doing considerably better than its rated range in actual highway driving, due apparently to the two-speed transmission. However, even at around 250 miles, it is still lackluster up against the Lucid and the newer Teslas.

Rivian is getting its range with what Peter Rawlinson calls the "dumb way" -- by slapping a huge battery pack under the vehicle. However, range is range, and the Rivians bring quick acceleration to the table. 3.0 seconds to 60 is mighty impressive for vehicles that will tip the scales at three tons. (Lucid has not published curb weight figures, but word from the West Palm Beach Design Studio is that the larger battery pack takes the car north of 5,000 pounds and Lucid is still trying to shave a few pounds.) It's going to be interesting to see what the braking distances are once the auto press gets their hands on these vehicles.

I learned from my Tesla that very heavy EV sedans can have surprisingly good handling due to their ultra-low centers of gravity. I traded an Audi R8 V-10 Spyder (engineered with an eye to a low center of gravity) for my Model S P90D and was surprised by how much quicker the Tesla felt off the line and how close the Tesla came to matching the Audi in handling, at least when comparing the maneuvers you can do on public roads. (The Tesla seemed more limited by its relatively skinny tire cross-section than by any other factor.)

Up until recently, you could get a rough sense of how one car would feel compared to another based on the specs that are usually published: horsepower and torque, acceleration, quarter-mile times, skidpad and slalom numbers, braking distances, shift rpm, etc. I have found that the monstrous low-end torque of an EV, the different shape of the power curve, the incredibly low center of gravity (the Model S is at 14" above the road), and the assist from regenerative braking (at least for those cars that, unlike Porsche, activate it upon lifting off the accelerator) make a comparison to an ICE vehicle based on specs alone very misleading.

EVs just feel different from ICE cars . . . and in very good ways. I have never wanted a tall, heavy, cumbersome ICE SUV. The reasons why diminish considerably when it comes to the Rivian R1S.
 

Lucken

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Jan 31, 2021
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I was driving a Model S for about 3 years and am now driving the I-Pace. The I-Pace is assembled far better than my Model S was. These cars are really a blast to drive.

Anxiously waiting for the Lucid!
 

hmp10

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Mar 7, 2020
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How is the rear seat room in the I-Pace? I think it's a sharp-looking car and toyed with trying one out at one point, but the local dealer never seemed to have one on the lot.

Did you see that Jaguar yesterday announced the cancellation of its plans for an all-electric XJ sedan, despite its having been in development for several years?
 
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Dreaming

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Did you see that Jaguar yesterday announced the cancellation of its plans for an all-electric XJ sedan, despite its having been in development for several years?
I did not see that. Didn't they announce they are going 100% EV? Are they dropping the XJ sedan altogether?
 

WildRide47

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Oct 22, 2020
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Change in delivery just announced previously from 2nd quarter to now 2nd half of the year. "Lucid will now start production of its first EV, a luxury sedan called the Air, in the second half of this year. The company had said deliveries of the $169,000 car would start in the second quarter".
 

hmp10

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I did not see that. Didn't they announce they are going 100% EV? Are they dropping the XJ sedan altogether?
Yep, they're dropping the XJ altogether. The new CEO says it no longer fits in the product lineup they envision going forward.
 
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